June 16 2022 Should true Christians associate with...?

PJ54

PJ54

Well-known member
*** Text for Thursday, June 16, 2022 ***
If you search for [Jehovah], he will let himself be found by you.—2 Chron. 15:2.​
We might ask ourselves, ‘Do I regularly attend congregation meetings?’ When we attend the meetings provided by Jehovah’s organization, we receive true spiritual refreshment along with upbuilding association. (Matt. 11:28) We might also ask ourselves, ‘Do I have good personal study habits?’ If you live with your family, do you set aside time every week for family worship? Or if you live alone, do you still set aside time just as if you were part of a family? Also, do you share as fully as possible in the preaching and disciple-making work? Why should we ask those questions? The Bible tells us that Jehovah examines our thoughts and what is in our hearts, so we should do the same. (1 Chron. 28:9) If we see that we need to make some changes in our goals, attitude, or thinking, we should ask Jehovah to help us make those changes. Now is the time to prepare ourselves for the tests that lie ahead. w20.09 19 ¶19-20
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From the Mailbag Archive.

Should true Christians associate with...?

When the early Christian congregations became influenced and then eventually controlled by apostate elders and their teachings, would the Tr...
questions-4jehovahs-witnesses.blogspot.com questions-4jehovahs-witnesses.blogspot.com

Should true Christians associate with...?​

When the early Christian congregations became influenced and then eventually controlled by apostate elders and their teachings, would the True Christians have continued to associate with them, reasoning that there was still some truths taught, or would they have heeded the Bible's counsel to get out from among them?
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There is only one true Christian congregation. According to Jesus, though, his congregation would be infiltrated with satanic agents. Jesus spoke of this phenomenon in the illustration of the wheat and the weeds. Also, Jesus said that his faithful slave and evil slave would coexist in the same household up until the time that the master of the house dismisses the evil slave. At no time did Jesus advise his faithful slaves to vacate God's household and abandon it to the evil ones.

In Jesus' counsel to the seven congregations, nearly every congregation was afflicted with apostate infiltrators and false apostles. Again, Jesus never advised his loyal ones to abandon the congregation despite the apostate influences present. Instead of Christians leaving the congregation, God's judgment will eventually purge Jehovah's organization of apostates. Isaiah 32:5-6 says: "The senseless one will no longer be called generous; and as for the unprincipled man, he will not be said to be noble; because the senseless one will himself speak mere senselessness, and his very heart will work at what is hurtful, to work at apostasy and to speak against Jehovah what is wayward, to cause the soul of the hungry one to go empty, and he causes even the thirsty one to go without drink itself."

While apostates may not be presently manifest, for now being viewed as generous and noble men, Jehovah's judgment will eventually unmask all the charlatans and hypocrites in our midst.
Posted 24th January 2011 by Unknown
 

Is it possible to be associated and not believe WT doctrine?

November, 2002 If someone disassociated themselves from the Watchtower Society due to research that convinced them that The Watchtower was...
questions-4jehovahs-witnesses.blogspot.com questions-4jehovahs-witnesses.blogspot.com

Is it possible to be associated and not believe WT doctrine?​

November, 2002

If someone disassociated themselves from the Watchtower Society due to research that convinced them that The Watchtower was erroneous on many issues and yet still felt convinced that Jehovah is much more gracious with regards to salvation than what we learned through the Watchtower, is it possible for such a one to get reinstated, even if they did not believe numerous things that the Watchtower teaches?

But is this possible if someone still does not believe that certain doctrines the Watchtower teaches are Bible based (i.e.: 1914, blood transfusions, disfellowshipping, etc)? Can you suggest how disfellowshipped or disassociated ones might get reinstated without lying or losing their integrity.
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That is a difficult situation. First, you must consider the possibility that you are in error as well. When Jesus wrote to the seven congregations of his anointed ones, he twice mentioned that he hated the deeds of the sect of Nicolaus. Since Jesus' words were actually directed to the remnant of the anointed ones who would be living during the Lord's day, it indicates that there is a sectarian influence within the organization up until the time that Christ removes "all person doing lawlessness." Since such a divisive influence is not commonly recognized in the Society presently, it makes everyone more susceptible to it. Clearly, though, Jesus intended to alert his disciples to the danger of being misled from within the congregation. "Let he who has an ear hear what the spirit says."

Since Nicolaus was apparently a prominent person, he must symbolize an influential individual today that has a following within Christ's congregation. Unquestionably, Ray Franz and his sympathizers fit the profile of the modern day sect of Nicolaus. He, being a former member of the Governing Body, has an insider's credibility that he has used to draw thousands of Jehovah's Witnesses out of the organization. The modern-day sect's issues with the Watchtower are: 1914, blood transfusions, and disfellowshipping, etc.

So, since the spirit reveals to those with ears to hear that there is a sectarian influence in the organization up until Jehovah's judgment is leveled, and since that sect's influence is in evidence to those with eyes to see, it would be wise on your part to make sure that you have not fallen victim to the evil influence of the modern day sect of Nicolaus.

The main thing for all of us, whether in the truth or out of the truth, as the expression goes, is to have a close personal relationship with Jehovah and strong faith. Being disfellowshipped or disassociated, or alienated from the congregation in some other way, doesn't necessarily mean that we are also disfellowshipped from God, nor does it mean that we are disqualified from salvation or cut off from God. When Paul advised the Corinthian congregation to remove the wicked brother from their midst, he said that the purpose of that drastic action was for the 'destruction of the flesh so that the spirit might be saved.' So, according to Paul being expelled from the congregation, while harsh, was not a death sentence provided that the individual took the discipline and, in effect, destroyed his fleshly desires that had led him into sin.

Since sectarianism is also considered a work of the flesh, it would be well for persons who find themselves in the predicament that you describe, to reevaluate their situation and put forth an effort to humbly trust God to set all matters straight within his organization.
Posted 16th January 2011 by Unknown
 
Talk about timely information! This has been on my mind again since I have people telling me I need to "get back to meetings". I know about the forsaking of gathering. We all learn that one early on. If they aren't preaching, is there something there that is going to benefit me more than what you recommend toward the end, which is to get my own self in order? I have just seen the latest book they are going to study and it's a combination of personal experience videos and feelings, with a smidgen of Holy Scripture mixed in. It feels lame to me. I say lame because it feels like one of our legs isn't working right so that we are walking with a limp instead of the upright truth.
For whatever faults they may have, the older books I studied in were like meat and potatoes to me whereas, this tastes more like soy burgers.
I appreciate you posting this.
 
I have been thinking about the question of whether Jehovah’s Witnesses are in fact Jehovah’s chosen organization in a like manner as the nation of Israel was chosen or has the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses been ”USED” by Jehovah to accomplish the preaching work. Used as in the sense that he at many times used non-worshippers to accomplish his purposes, such as Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Balaam. This is my honest questioning and I guess I feel the need to reveal it to the forum for hopes of honest and respectful heartfelt dialogue. In the past when I have had certain questions that I feel could cause controversy, I refrain from even continuing to think about them so as to not make waves and yet certain questions don’t go away unless they are resolved in a way that I can understand them.

The nation of Israel was specifically stated in God’s inspired word as being chosen as his special property out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, per Deuteronomy 7:6: “For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, and Jehovah your God has chosen you to become his people, his special property, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth”. Even the surrounding nations connected the Israelites to the worship of Jehovah and many times that knowledge resulted in these nations realizing that Jehovah would act on behalf of his people. In harmony with that thought, the nation of Israel had laws from Jehovah, the priesthood, the clearly stated tribes, the temple, health codes, the arrangement for sacrifice and repentance and the festivals. All clearly established in God’s word.

Now with Christianity, we have in God’s word, the tongues of fire that identified those in the first century along with the gifts of the spirit at least until the written bible was completed and then the gifts of the spirit were done away with. There was no physical temple, but the anointed are now the temple. 2 Corinthians 6:16: “And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Jesus is the High Priest and his human life was the end to animal sacrifice and the penalty paid for Adam’s sin. As far as festivals we have the Memorial. But then we have the dark ages and after the 4th Century, who really knows for sure who truly worshipped Jehovah and who were counterfeit worshippers?

Here is the problem that I see and I am contemplating. Anyone can claim to be anointed and no one else, other than Jehovah and Jesus, knows if that is true or not. Jesus said the identifying factor to being his follower would be the love they have among themselves, something we cannot know if we don’t have a pretty familiar knowledge of someone. Are all of the anointed actively involved in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses? I have no idea but since Robert King does the majority of his preaching work through his website, his videos and this forum, that leads me to believe they are not all within the current congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses and there could be other “Roberts” out there somewhere that I just don’t know about. It will take Jesus coming to know who are then chosen and then become the Faithful and Discreet Slave that is found dispensing spiritual food. And, of course as Luke points out there are some anointed who do not understand the master’s instructions and they will be disciplined, which implies that they accept the discipline and would then be chosen as well.

So, I can now really see how important the 42 months of preaching will be in the future, which by the way is the same amount of time that Jesus spent in his earthly ministry. And, if Jehovah is true to his pattern, he will by some kind of supernatural display make it clear to others that these brothers are in fact “chosen” so that there will not be any doubt. The only scripture that I can think of or find other than being known for the love amongst themselves is at Matthew 13:43: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen“. The context of this scripture is regarding to the conclusion of the system of things. We also know from Brother Robert King’s explanation of the Bible that the Watchtower as an organization will be destroyed in the Great Tribulation and it will have no part in the preaching work of the 42 months described in Revelation (I think I recall that and it makes sense to me).

In summary, while I can clearly see that there are disciples or followers of Christ and his teachings, there are no chosen ones yet and so I don’t think that Jehovah has yet chosen an earthly organization or representative at this time period and yet there are those in line for the choosing if they in fact follow in Jesus footsteps and are also invited and we will have to see in the future if they become truly CHOSEN. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
 
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Driven said:
In summary, while I can clearly see that there are disciples or followers of Christ and his teachings, there are no chosen ones yet and so I don’t think that Jehovah has yet chosen an earthly organization or representative at this time period and yet there are those in line for the choosing if they in fact follow in Jesus footsteps and are also invited and we will have to see in the future if they become truly CHOSEN. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
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Excellent comment. I believe Jehovah will call the anointed from inside and outside of the WT.
 
Driven said:
I have been thinking about the question of whether Jehovah’s Witnesses are in fact Jehovah’s chosen organization in a like manner as the nation of Israel was chosen or has the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses been ”USED” by Jehovah to accomplish the preaching work. Used as in the sense that he at many times used non-worshippers to accomplish his purposes, such as Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Balaam. This is my honest questioning and I guess I feel the need to reveal it to the forum for hopes of honest and respectful heartfelt dialogue. In the past when I have had certain questions that I feel could cause controversy, I refrain from even continuing to think about them so as to not make waves and yet certain questions don’t go away unless they are resolved in a way that I can understand them.

The nation of Israel was specifically stated in God’s inspired word as being chosen as his special property out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, per Deuteronomy 7:6: “For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, and Jehovah your God has chosen you to become his people, his special property, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth”. Even the surrounding nations connected the Israelites to the worship of Jehovah and many times that knowledge resulted in these nations realizing that Jehovah would act on behalf of his people. In harmony with that thought, the nation of Israel had laws from Jehovah, the priesthood, the clearly stated tribes, the temple, health codes, the arrangement for sacrifice and repentance and the festivals. All clearly established in God’s word.

Now with Christianity, we have in God’s word, the tongues of fire that identified those in the first century along with the gifts of the spirit at least until the written bible was completed and then the gifts of the spirit were done away with. There was no physical temple, but the anointed are now the temple. 2 Corinthians 6:16: “And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Jesus is the High Priest and his human life was the end to animal sacrifice and the penalty paid for Adam’s sin. As far as festivals we have the Memorial. But then we have the dark ages and after the 4th Century, who really knows for sure who truly worshipped Jehovah and who were counterfeit worshippers?

Here is the problem that I see and I am contemplating. Anyone can claim to be anointed and no one else, other than Jehovah and Jesus, knows if that is true or not. Jesus said the identifying factor to being his follower would be the love they have among themselves, something we cannot know if we don’t have a pretty familiar knowledge of someone. Are all of the anointed actively involved in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses? I have no idea but since Robert King does the majority of his preaching work through his website, his videos and this forum, that leads me to believe they are not all within the current congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses and there could be other “Roberts” out there somewhere that I just don’t know about. It will take Jesus coming to know who are then chosen and then become the Faithful and Discreet Slave that is found dispensing spiritual food. And, of course as Luke points out there are some anointed who do not understand the master’s instructions and they will be disciplined, which implies that they accept the discipline and would then be chosen as well.

So, I can now really see how important the 42 months of preaching will be in the future, which by the way is the same amount of time that Jesus spent in his earthly ministry. And, if Jehovah is true to his pattern, he will by some kind of supernatural display make it clear to others that these brothers are in fact “chosen” so that there will not be any doubt. The only scripture that I can think of or find other than being known for the love amongst themselves is at Matthew 13:43: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen“. The context of this scripture is in regarding to the conclusion of the system of things. We also know from Brother Robert King’s explanation of the Bible that the Watchtower as an organization will be destroyed in the Great Tribulation and it will have no part in the preaching work of the 42 months described in Revelation (I think I recall that and it makes sense to me).

In summary, while I can clearly see that there are disciples or followers of Christ and his teachings, there are no chosen ones yet and so I don’t think that Jehovah has yet chosen an earthly organization or representative at this time period and yet there are those in line for the choosing if they in fact follow in Jesus footsteps and are also invited and we will have to see in the future if they become truly CHOSEN. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
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Considering how fragmented Christendom it's obvious that the many will not understand the truth & stumble. While I do believe Christendom has made it somewhat easier to get the Good News to foreign lands since the pagans probably were hostile, so that the Church had to crusade those areas to get the demonic influence out of there. Nonetheless, it has served its purpose & the Org could proceed to clarify the Truth. Unfortunately, the Org is falling into the pitfalls that the churches have fallen into. In the end it'll be only the sincere that'll embrace the Kingdom & it's leaders. Jesus even said in Luke:
(Luke 18:8) 8 I tell you, he will cause justice to be done to them speedily. Nevertheless, when the Son of man arrives, will he really find this faith on the earth?”
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Driven said:
I have been thinking about the question of whether Jehovah’s Witnesses are in fact Jehovah’s chosen organization in a like manner as the nation of Israel was chosen or has the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses been ”USED” by Jehovah to accomplish the preaching work. Used as in the sense that he at many times used non-worshippers to accomplish his purposes, such as Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Balaam. This is my honest questioning and I guess I feel the need to reveal it to the forum for hopes of honest and respectful heartfelt dialogue. In the past when I have had certain questions that I feel could cause controversy, I refrain from even continuing to think about them so as to not make waves and yet certain questions don’t go away unless they are resolved in a way that I can understand them.

The nation of Israel was specifically stated in God’s inspired word as being chosen as his special property out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, per Deuteronomy 7:6: “For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, and Jehovah your God has chosen you to become his people, his special property, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth”. Even the surrounding nations connected the Israelites to the worship of Jehovah and many times that knowledge resulted in these nations realizing that Jehovah would act on behalf of his people. In harmony with that thought, the nation of Israel had laws from Jehovah, the priesthood, the clearly stated tribes, the temple, health codes, the arrangement for sacrifice and repentance and the festivals. All clearly established in God’s word.

Now with Christianity, we have in God’s word, the tongues of fire that identified those in the first century along with the gifts of the spirit at least until the written bible was completed and then the gifts of the spirit were done away with. There was no physical temple, but the anointed are now the temple. 2 Corinthians 6:16: “And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Jesus is the High Priest and his human life was the end to animal sacrifice and the penalty paid for Adam’s sin. As far as festivals we have the Memorial. But then we have the dark ages and after the 4th Century, who really knows for sure who truly worshipped Jehovah and who were counterfeit worshippers?

Here is the problem that I see and I am contemplating. Anyone can claim to be anointed and no one else, other than Jehovah and Jesus, knows if that is true or not. Jesus said the identifying factor to being his follower would be the love they have among themselves, something we cannot know if we don’t have a pretty familiar knowledge of someone. Are all of the anointed actively involved in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses? I have no idea but since Robert King does the majority of his preaching work through his website, his videos and this forum, that leads me to believe they are not all within the current congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses and there could be other “Roberts” out there somewhere that I just don’t know about. It will take Jesus coming to know who are then chosen and then become the Faithful and Discreet Slave that is found dispensing spiritual food. And, of course as Luke points out there are some anointed who do not understand the master’s instructions and they will be disciplined, which implies that they accept the discipline and would then be chosen as well.

So, I can now really see how important the 42 months of preaching will be in the future, which by the way is the same amount of time that Jesus spent in his earthly ministry. And, if Jehovah is true to his pattern, he will by some kind of supernatural display make it clear to others that these brothers are in fact “chosen” so that there will not be any doubt. The only scripture that I can think of or find other than being known for the love amongst themselves is at Matthew 13:43: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen“. The context of this scripture is regarding to the conclusion of the system of things. We also know from Brother Robert King’s explanation of the Bible that the Watchtower as an organization will be destroyed in the Great Tribulation and it will have no part in the preaching work of the 42 months described in Revelation (I think I recall that and it makes sense to me).

In summary, while I can clearly see that there are disciples or followers of Christ and his teachings, there are no chosen ones yet and so I don’t think that Jehovah has yet chosen an earthly organization or representative at this time period and yet there are those in line for the choosing if they in fact follow in Jesus footsteps and are also invited and we will have to see in the future if they become truly CHOSEN. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
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@Driven

You detailed that so clearly. Thanks for sharing this information. I’d like to look up some information myself before I comment except to point out that I’ve always notice when Jesus would say “Let the one who has ears listen.”
It would seem as if that means it’s something of vital importance that we are to know and understand.
 
Driven said:
I have been thinking about the question of whether Jehovah’s Witnesses are in fact Jehovah’s chosen organization in a like manner as the nation of Israel was chosen or has the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses been ”USED” by Jehovah to accomplish the preaching work.
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I am glad you asked this question as it’s been eating away at me too.

The way I look at WT now is:
1. There is no public preaching work like Jesus instructed (Luke 10:1) and with lockdowns imminent when it gets colder I wonder if it will ever return.
2. WT is actively pushing its members to take an untested gene altering medical procedure which is killing and disabling its members. Having no regards for human life and prostituting themselves to worldly authorities.
3. Congregating is only possible by wearing a harmful item that has no protective value but does harm the wearer (Same as point 2)

This had made me come to the conclusion that even though the organisation may have had Jehovah’s blessing in the past because they were needed to spread the good news so the remaining anointed ones could be gathered. But the organisation now has lost its purpose and has no benefits for people to remain. The teachings are false and promote idolatry of the leaders. Unity has become more important than truth and thinking for yourself or researching Bible truths, testing them against WT teachings have become an act punishable by defellowshiping.

I know that what I know about Jehovah, Jesus, the non existing trinity, God’s Kingdom, etc, I know from having been in this organisation. But remaining in it is harmful for my mental and physical health.

As for gatherings, I have been speaking to @Paul H nearly every day for the last few weeks. We have delved deeper into Bible truths than I’ve done in years during a meeting in the hall.

This is my view. I hope others will follow 😊
 
Sunshower said:
I am glad you asked this question as it’s been eating away at me too.

The way I look at WT now is:
1. There is no public preaching work like Jesus instructed (Luke 10:1) and with lockdowns imminent when it gets colder I wonder if it will ever return.
2. WT is actively pushing its members to take an untested gene altering medical procedure which is killing and disabling its members. Having no regards for human life and prostituting themselves to worldly authorities.
3. Congregating is only possible by wearing a harmful item that has no protective value but does harm the wearer (Same as point 2)

This had made me come to the conclusion that even though the organisation may have had Jehovah’s blessing in the past because they were needed to spread the good news so the remaining anointed ones could be gathered. But the organisation now has lost its purpose and has no benefits for people to remain. The teachings are false and promote idolatry of the leaders. Unity has become more important than truth and thinking for yourself or researching Bible truths, testing them against WT teachings have become an act punishable by defellowshiping.

I know that what I know about Jehovah, Jesus, the non existing trinity, God’s Kingdom, etc, I know from having been in this organisation. But remaining in it is harmful for my mental and physical health.

As for gatherings, I have been speaking to @Paul H nearly every day for the last few weeks. We have delved deeper into Bible truths than I’ve done in years during a meeting in the hall.

This is my view. I hope others will follow 😊
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Hi Sunshower, Your response makes me question how someone in the 4th century would have been viewed if they left the “congregation” that then accepted the trinity. Would they have been accused of abandoning God’s approved organization? Would they have been criticized for not waiting for Jehovah to clean up the organization. It’s a lot to consider and I do believe that the Great Tribulation will start soon and then it will become a moot point since the Watchtower is the whitewashed wall that will collapse. Ezekiel 13:15-16: “When I fully unleash my wrath upon the wall and upon those who plastered it with whitewash, I will say to you: “The wall is no more, and those plastering it are no more. The prophets of Israel are gone, those who prophesy to Jerusalem and who see visions of peace for her, when there is no peace,”’ declares the Sovereign Lord Jehovah.”
 
Sunshower said:
I am glad you asked this question as it’s been eating away at me too.

The way I look at WT now is:
1. There is no public preaching work like Jesus instructed (Luke 10:1) and with lockdowns imminent when it gets colder I wonder if it will ever return.
2. WT is actively pushing its members to take an untested gene altering medical procedure which is killing and disabling its members. Having no regards for human life and prostituting themselves to worldly authorities.
3. Congregating is only possible by wearing a harmful item that has no protective value but does harm the wearer (Same as point 2)

This had made me come to the conclusion that even though the organisation may have had Jehovah’s blessing in the past because they were needed to spread the good news so the remaining anointed ones could be gathered. But the organisation now has lost its purpose and has no benefits for people to remain. The teachings are false and promote idolatry of the leaders. Unity has become more important than truth and thinking for yourself or researching Bible truths, testing them against WT teachings have become an act punishable by defellowshiping.

I know that what I know about Jehovah, Jesus, the non existing trinity, God’s Kingdom, etc, I know from having been in this organisation. But remaining in it is harmful for my mental and physical health.

As for gatherings, I have been speaking to @Paul H nearly every day for the last few weeks. We have delved deeper into Bible truths than I’ve done in years during a meeting in the hall.

This is my view. I hope others will follow 😊
Click to expand...
@Sunshower

I think you’re on the right track like Driven when it comes to Jehovah’s organization having had his blessing in the past.

You‘re also very fortunate to have Paul H to delve deeper into Bible truths and do so consistently. Keep on delving into the scriptures as it brings a certain satisfaction because you can get closer Jehovah when you search the scriptures.

Jehovah will definitely bless you both.
 
Driven said:
I have been thinking about the question of whether Jehovah’s Witnesses are in fact Jehovah’s chosen organization in a like manner as the nation of Israel was chosen or has the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses been ”USED” by Jehovah to accomplish the preaching work. Used as in the sense that he at many times used non-worshippers to accomplish his purposes, such as Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Balaam. This is my honest questioning and I guess I feel the need to reveal it to the forum for hopes of honest and respectful heartfelt dialogue. In the past when I have had certain questions that I feel could cause controversy, I refrain from even continuing to think about them so as to not make waves and yet certain questions don’t go away unless they are resolved in a way that I can understand them.

The nation of Israel was specifically stated in God’s inspired word as being chosen as his special property out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, per Deuteronomy 7:6: “For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, and Jehovah your God has chosen you to become his people, his special property, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth”. Even the surrounding nations connected the Israelites to the worship of Jehovah and many times that knowledge resulted in these nations realizing that Jehovah would act on behalf of his people. In harmony with that thought, the nation of Israel had laws from Jehovah, the priesthood, the clearly stated tribes, the temple, health codes, the arrangement for sacrifice and repentance and the festivals. All clearly established in God’s word.

Now with Christianity, we have in God’s word, the tongues of fire that identified those in the first century along with the gifts of the spirit at least until the written bible was completed and then the gifts of the spirit were done away with. There was no physical temple, but the anointed are now the temple. 2 Corinthians 6:16: “And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Jesus is the High Priest and his human life was the end to animal sacrifice and the penalty paid for Adam’s sin. As far as festivals we have the Memorial. But then we have the dark ages and after the 4th Century, who really knows for sure who truly worshipped Jehovah and who were counterfeit worshippers?

Here is the problem that I see and I am contemplating. Anyone can claim to be anointed and no one else, other than Jehovah and Jesus, knows if that is true or not. Jesus said the identifying factor to being his follower would be the love they have among themselves, something we cannot know if we don’t have a pretty familiar knowledge of someone. Are all of the anointed actively involved in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses? I have no idea but since Robert King does the majority of his preaching work through his website, his videos and this forum, that leads me to believe they are not all within the current congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses and there could be other “Roberts” out there somewhere that I just don’t know about. It will take Jesus coming to know who are then chosen and then become the Faithful and Discreet Slave that is found dispensing spiritual food. And, of course as Luke points out there are some anointed who do not understand the master’s instructions and they will be disciplined, which implies that they accept the discipline and would then be chosen as well.

So, I can now really see how important the 42 months of preaching will be in the future, which by the way is the same amount of time that Jesus spent in his earthly ministry. And, if Jehovah is true to his pattern, he will by some kind of supernatural display make it clear to others that these brothers are in fact “chosen” so that there will not be any doubt. The only scripture that I can think of or find other than being known for the love amongst themselves is at Matthew 13:43: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen“. The context of this scripture is regarding to the conclusion of the system of things. We also know from Brother Robert King’s explanation of the Bible that the Watchtower as an organization will be destroyed in the Great Tribulation and it will have no part in the preaching work of the 42 months described in Revelation (I think I recall that and it makes sense to me).

In summary, while I can clearly see that there are disciples or followers of Christ and his teachings, there are no chosen ones yet and so I don’t think that Jehovah has yet chosen an earthly organization or representative at this time period and yet there are those in line for the choosing if they in fact follow in Jesus footsteps and are also invited and we will have to see in the future if they become truly CHOSEN. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
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It is certainly a difficult question. Is the watchtower valid? I have wondered whether it could be. Eight million people out of eight billion. It is a drop in the ocean, yet the majority of the world are aware of them. Are the anointed really so? How could all the anointed be so blind and inactive? Are they all waiting for the time to speak. Is not one of them indignant enough to stand up and be counted? One issue for me, is the latter point. The anointed base their anointing (it seems) on the teachings of the watchtower. And we know without doubt, that the watchtower has ultimately failed to uphold the truth. So it follows that the anointed class may not be valid - but then, out of an apostate nation, Jehovah has chosen such people to speak up as individuals in the past and whose voice could only be local to the area in which he lived. Thus it seems as though the spirit of Jehovah settles upon whom He chooses, yet the message remains local to those who are aware of the issues, and the task is specific.

Likewise, for prophesy to be fulfilled, Jehovah must, by His own word, have an issue to denounce those who carry His name. Thus the watchtower must have the clout it needs to make such a judgement meaningful. To do that, it must have some semblance of loyalty to prove its falsity and corruption against In the understanding of man. How else are Jehovah’s people expected to prepare, have their lamps alight and be aware of the coming of the Bride? There must be some biblical point of reference for the flock to have been mistreated.

The watchtower never could measure up to its purpose. It is just not possible for imperfect men to make it so. But it has fulfilled prophesy, when compared to the teaching of the bible. The destruction of the watchtower, compared with other religions will be felt by a select few of the world population, but spread over a world wide arena, but still comparatively few in numbers of adherents. When you consider that the population of London alone, is 1,500,000 more than the population of world wide witnesses, then it puts things into perspective. The answer, I suppose, lies in how are we to expect Jehovah to make relevant the coming of His kingdom, within the stated confines of prophesy written in the bible. It has to be soon whatever it is, because the watchtower is rapidly disintegrating through its own corruption, prophetic and otherwise and it appears the only relevant faith pro-rata with prophesy. It makes me wonder if the watchtower is significant in other ways as yet not understood. That much would not be surprising.
 
@BARNABY THE DOG. My mom and I often talk about the WT’s claim that only JW’s will be saved during God’s day. We think it’s highly presumptuous because Paul speaks of people who uphold the law without knowing the law.
There are many places on earth where Christianity is forbidden, for example China. Would Jehovah just all destroy these people just because they have never heard of Him? It’s hard for me to accept.

So I do think your question about the anointed is a valid one. If we wouldn’t speak, the stones would, right? I guess the near future will give us the answers we’re looking for.
 
Driven said:
I have been thinking about the question of whether Jehovah’s Witnesses are in fact Jehovah’s chosen organization in a like manner as the nation of Israel was chosen or has the organization of Jehovah’s Witnesses been ”USED” by Jehovah to accomplish the preaching work. Used as in the sense that he at many times used non-worshippers to accomplish his purposes, such as Nebuchadnezzar, Cyrus, Balaam. This is my honest questioning and I guess I feel the need to reveal it to the forum for hopes of honest and respectful heartfelt dialogue. In the past when I have had certain questions that I feel could cause controversy, I refrain from even continuing to think about them so as to not make waves and yet certain questions don’t go away unless they are resolved in a way that I can understand them.

The nation of Israel was specifically stated in God’s inspired word as being chosen as his special property out of all the peoples on the face of the earth, per Deuteronomy 7:6: “For you are a holy people to Jehovah your God, and Jehovah your God has chosen you to become his people, his special property, out of all the peoples who are on the face of the earth”. Even the surrounding nations connected the Israelites to the worship of Jehovah and many times that knowledge resulted in these nations realizing that Jehovah would act on behalf of his people. In harmony with that thought, the nation of Israel had laws from Jehovah, the priesthood, the clearly stated tribes, the temple, health codes, the arrangement for sacrifice and repentance and the festivals. All clearly established in God’s word.

Now with Christianity, we have in God’s word, the tongues of fire that identified those in the first century along with the gifts of the spirit at least until the written bible was completed and then the gifts of the spirit were done away with. There was no physical temple, but the anointed are now the temple. 2 Corinthians 6:16: “And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.”

Jesus is the High Priest and his human life was the end to animal sacrifice and the penalty paid for Adam’s sin. As far as festivals we have the Memorial. But then we have the dark ages and after the 4th Century, who really knows for sure who truly worshipped Jehovah and who were counterfeit worshippers?

Here is the problem that I see and I am contemplating. Anyone can claim to be anointed and no one else, other than Jehovah and Jesus, knows if that is true or not. Jesus said the identifying factor to being his follower would be the love they have among themselves, something we cannot know if we don’t have a pretty familiar knowledge of someone. Are all of the anointed actively involved in the congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses? I have no idea but since Robert King does the majority of his preaching work through his website, his videos and this forum, that leads me to believe they are not all within the current congregations of Jehovah’s Witnesses and there could be other “Roberts” out there somewhere that I just don’t know about. It will take Jesus coming to know who are then chosen and then become the Faithful and Discreet Slave that is found dispensing spiritual food. And, of course as Luke points out there are some anointed who do not understand the master’s instructions and they will be disciplined, which implies that they accept the discipline and would then be chosen as well.

So, I can now really see how important the 42 months of preaching will be in the future, which by the way is the same amount of time that Jesus spent in his earthly ministry. And, if Jehovah is true to his pattern, he will by some kind of supernatural display make it clear to others that these brothers are in fact “chosen” so that there will not be any doubt. The only scripture that I can think of or find other than being known for the love amongst themselves is at Matthew 13:43: “At that time the righteous ones will shine as brightly as the sun in the Kingdom of their Father. Let the one who has ears listen“. The context of this scripture is regarding to the conclusion of the system of things. We also know from Brother Robert King’s explanation of the Bible that the Watchtower as an organization will be destroyed in the Great Tribulation and it will have no part in the preaching work of the 42 months described in Revelation (I think I recall that and it makes sense to me).

In summary, while I can clearly see that there are disciples or followers of Christ and his teachings, there are no chosen ones yet and so I don’t think that Jehovah has yet chosen an earthly organization or representative at this time period and yet there are those in line for the choosing if they in fact follow in Jesus footsteps and are also invited and we will have to see in the future if they become truly CHOSEN. I look forward to hearing your thoughts.
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We know when Dan8:11 describes the KOTN exalted behaviour against Christ 'The Prince of your people'. Also the 'Constant Feature' plus the established place of Christ's sanctuary is taken down! These features are represented where else but within the Organisation that bears Jah's Name?
 
MickHewitt said:
We know when Dan8:11 describes the KOTN exalted behaviour against Christ 'The Prince of your people'. Also the 'Constant Feature' plus the established place of Christ's sanctuary is taken down! These features are represented where else but within the Organisation that bears Jah's Name?
Click to expand...
Also Rev12:13 When the Devil realises he is thrown down he persecutes the woman who gave birth to the child. Now the Devil can no longer persecute anything or anyone in heaven while thrown down....so who is this woman he persecutes on earth......? Who has had the ability to produce such ones? It has to be......?
 
Carl said:
Excellent comment. I believe Jehovah will call the anointed from inside and outside of the WT.
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We may be surprised who gets sealed in the future.
Often, in scripture, it was those who felt least qualified such as Gideon who considered himself one of the least in his fathers house or Saul who hid among the baggage when the people sought to make him king that Jehovah chose to lead His people.
Surely nobody thought the puny shepherd boy David could be the stuff of leadership but Jehovah could see what no one else could.
Whoever happens to comprise that sealed class, we know they’ll be the right ones for the task since breaking their integrity will be Satans number one priority and Jehovah just isn’t going to allow that to happen.
 
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