PIMO / PISA / POSA - Should I stay or should I go (in)

[A B]

The trinity has duped billions of Christians and it actually destroys the ransom! With few exceptions here and there and considering the # of publications covering the subject, the Watchtower has probably been the largest opposition force against the Trinity in the world if not ever than at least for the last 140 years.

Critical times call for Matrix like maneuvers. No fun but necessary to dodge the confusion.

 

[A B]

This is true. We attended our first in-person meeting today (besides the memorial). No one said anything about masks, my husband had an extensive conversation with an elder about how we shouldn't be polluting our bodies with the jabs, how even the pcr test has cancerous elements and he was laid off work for not complying. Apparently the elder didn't say anything really, just looked a bit surprised.

I have been pimo since 2010, attended my last meeting in 2016. I still felt encouraged and biblically strengthed even though I was pimo. But this meeting was different. I feel so discouraged, so depressed after we left the hall. I came home and cried to my husband. I don't know why but I had such a bad feeling being there. The hall felt dead, cold. Not that some people weren't welcoming. But it is an older hall, at least 75% there had Grey hair and we were the only family with younger children, aside from one masked 4 yo. I think there was one other family on zoom. The hustle of children and happiness of babies and young couples was gone. I can't describe it really.

One sister gave a comment on how the 'counsel' she was given was to stop visiting with a sister who wasnt going to meetings anymore, stop wasting her time there and go out door to door. So she stopped helping this inactive sister in order to rack up ministry hours!! I was so disgusted and told my husband afterwards that in Jesus shepherd illustration the shepherd left everything to go after the lost sheep!! My husband said I should have commented that I didn't agree with the sister and the counsel she was given.

I'll agree that sounds a little harsh on the surface (and unsophisticated that she needs to be told) but if the real lost sheep is out in the field somewhere it was the right call. How can you or I really know? But I understand your frustration, I cringe when I hear those types of comments.

 

[Jim]

I would still go. It is easy to slide into apathy, which I have done. Once you leave you will find ever more reasons not to go back. Like I have. Obviously I cannot attend a church. Most of what Christendom teaches is utterly false. But at least witnesses have a framework of the "truth". I miss the brotherhood of like believers. I am on an island now. I reject the world but also reject Watchtower idolatry. Feel stuck. I want to go back, but I know I cannot embrace what will be required of me. Allegiance to every utterance of the governing body. It makes me ill.

 

[PJ54]

I would still go. It is easy to slide into apathy, which I have done. Once you leave you will find ever more reasons not to go back. Like I have. Obviously I cannot attend a church. Most of what Christendom teaches is utterly false. But at least witnesses have a framework of the "truth". I miss the brotherhood of like believers. I am on an island now. I reject the world but also reject Watchtower idolatry. Feel stuck. I want to go back, but I know I cannot embrace what will be required of me. Allegiance to every utterance of the governing body. It makes me ill.

Things have changed it seems at the Hall. Lisa-Lisa got reamed at the Memorial she attended to. I know it's not everywhere but it seems the love is in the process of cooling off.

Hope you all have a good Memorial Tonight

Good Morning All! This Memorial will no doubt feel very different for many of us here on this forum in comparison to years past. Just wanted to wish you all a Wonderful evening commemorating the greatest Man who ever lived and the greatest sacrifice ever given. John 15:13 is one of my favorite...

e-jehovahs-witnesses.com

 

[MuleJule]

PISA Physically In Spiritually Aware

Chiming in here with my personal feelings at the moment. I feel very much like @Dorothea. I am feeling the desire to separate myself because the majority of what is taught at the meetings now conflicts with my conscience. But this is not easy. I have a lot of extended PIMI family who I cannot abandon. I am bonded to them. My immediate family is starting to resume in-person meetings, but I cannot force myself to do it. I did the memorial alone at home. My husband said people keep asking him where I am. Pre-pandemic I was the active one and he wasn't. I am attending via zoom and the last 2 Sunday talks have been very much pushing blind obedience to the GB. I am thinking they must have new outlines.

In today's talk we were told we need to separate from independent thinking, and just follow the slave, trust them, listen - obey and be blessed. Don't doubt them. If we doubt we are like the 10 spies who were seduced by lies of the nephilim being alive, and like the Israelites who doubted Moses' leadership as he led them to a seeming dead end. He said we are now being encouraged to attend in-person meetings to strengthen and motivate us to maintain our confidence in the slave... are we using zoom as an excuse to take it easy? If we don't need to be on zoom, we are being disobedient to direction. Last Sunday the speaker said "we are here at the kingdom hall because we were obedient and got our vaccines." So... it would be hard to be there in person and not be slapping my forehead. These were both visiting speakers, not local brothers, btw.

BUT... for the most part I have a very loving, caring and understanding congregation. I truly love my brothers and sisters and I don't feel the need to abandon them completely. I am working through how to navigate this situation. I am asking Jehovah to guide me, so I can do what is best for everyone involved.

I appreciate @BARNABY THE DOG's advice to take this time to be patient and contemplate, to gain insight to forge a new path. We each face different situations, so the path forward will look different for us all. I am keeping mostly silent with my family and congregation friends, for now. I am taking this time to unlearn, relearn, confirm what is truth, and with Jehovah's help I hope to make a proper defense when the time is right.

 

[TruthLover]

Chiming in here with my personal feelings at the moment. I feel very much like @Dorothea.
BUT... for the most part I have a very loving, caring and understanding congregation. I truly love my brothers and sisters and I don't feel the need to abandon them completely. I am working through how to navigate this situation. I am asking Jehovah to guide me, so I can do what is best for everyone involved.

I appreciate @BARNABY THE DOG's advice to take this time to be patient and contemplate, to gain insight to forge a new path. We each face different situations, so the path forward will look different for us all. I am keeping mostly silent with my family and congregation friends, for now. I am taking this time to unlearn, relearn, confirm what is truth, and with Jehovah's help I hope to make a proper defense when the time is right.

I feel very similar to you MuleJule.
I'm also making sure of what I know at the moment to be able to make a defense at the right moment. I don't feel I can presently just go in person and just act like everything is fine, I feel I have to go all out, otherwise it could lead to compromise, and it really isn't a small thing. So I'm just staying on zoom until I know what to do.
The meetings have been quite overwhelming for me too lately. We had a talk on keeping awake at the meeting and I was just a sobbing mess. The memorial talk I had was so heartfelt and unscripted sounding. I've been so encouraged by the meetings at times, and then others not. I've become really close to some in the congregation, and I don't feel I would have coped without them. I'd been struggling as I've been trying to see everything as black and white and it just isn't the case with everything.
Since the memorial, a lot more people in my congregation went in person for the weekend meeting which I think was the GBs plan to get more people back in.

 

[MuleJule]

I'm also making sure of what I know at the moment to be able to make a defense at the right moment. So I'm just staying on zoom until I know what to do.

I've become really close to some in the congregation, and I don't feel I would have coped without them. I'd been struggling as I've been trying to see everything as black and white and it just isn't the case with everything.

My sentiments too @TruthLover, it's not black & white. There are so many variables to consider, and so many people who matter. I am trying to see the big picture, not just how I see it, or feel about it. It's such a tricky balance, one I know I can't maintain without help from Jehovah. I pray that we are able to manage it. I'm glad you're here, and I'm here for you. If you want to talk, message me.

 

[MickHewitt]

You 100% echo my feelings! I too would feel like I could become bloodguilty referring anybody to an org that is pushing the kill shots!

Should anyone go into Liverpool's Health service? 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told but minister still says controversial end-of-life plan is 'fantastic' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ys-controversial-end-life-plan-fantastic.html

 

[kenmuldoon55]

Just personally, I couldn't refer people to the jw website any more, since update #6 , when they started pushing the 'death jabs' - I felt I would be blood guilty. - so that left out meeting with the zoom group for service. Then I realized I couldn't make a helpful comment at meetings, without having an elder follow my comment with a 'clarifying' statement. [ I just can't keep neutral, or keep quiet] Then I realized the hypocrisy actually made my stomach really sick, so at that point, I thought I would try not going for a while, and then just go back, only to listen in. But it still gave me a sick feeling, and left me agitated and emotional [overly so]. My health is/was already a problem, along with age [73]. I just want peace in my life. I feel Jehovah has given me that, and much more. I really love reading the comments here, even when I'm not up to doing so myself.I especially enjoy watchman's comments and articles and videos that he leaves links to. I do still turn in a few hours of time - when requested, so I'm still considered an active pub [ who doesn't attend meetings] LOL -what a set up! ha! BTW - I was baptized in '75. - In for 46 years. But my life is just now beginning! - It's never too late! - My heart is young. I feel I am where I need to be and Jehovah will help me to help others see the real truth, even if it is little by little.

Totally agree with you.
Pointing anyone to the WT’s “program of salvation” would be like giving someone a boarding pass for the Titanic.

 

[BillyRay]

Things have changed it seems at the Hall. Lisa-Lisa got reamed at the Memorial she attended to. I know it's not everywhere but it seems the love is in the process of cooling off.

Hope you all have a good Memorial Tonight

Good Morning All! This Memorial will no doubt feel very different for many of us here on this forum in comparison to years past. Just wanted to wish you all a Wonderful evening commemorating the greatest Man who ever lived and the greatest sacrifice ever given. John 15:13 is one of my favorite...

e-jehovahs-witnesses.com

 

[BillyRay]

I’m a PISA at this point. I’m extremely grateful (and quite curious) as to why I don’t see many of the issues some of you have experienced. Nor have I seen or heard about anyone from our KH treating people as harshly as some of you have seen and heard.

Neither do I see the overt GB fawning that many of you have seen. At least not in talks, or parts - other than the Watchtower study with material from the Watchtower itself. Even there, it’s not as bad as I’ve heard of here. Although my heightened senses caught a number of cringeworthy points in the Watchtowers recently.

During the Zoom era, the majority of speakers for the Public Talk were friends and family members of those in our Congregation. We had speakers from all over the world, as well as the US. I waited with baited breath every week - THIS will be the week that I see the overt GB worship. It didn’t happen. Even as I mentioned in another thread, our CO visit didn’t have it either.

My opinion - and I allow for the possibility that I could be wrong - is that there are some places where things may have run amok due to brothers who are either drunk on power - or are inserting and emphasizing opinions in order to curry favor. Favor from whom? I don’t know. Fellow body members, CO’s, or maybe their own personal self-interest in advancement.

In any case, I stay vigilant in watching for these things. And I’m literally horrified at some of the experiences I’ve read about on this board. How some of you have been treated cuts me to the heart.

BR

 

[Medi-tator]

I’m a PISA at this point. I’m extremely grateful (and quite curious) as to why I don’t see many of the issues some of you have experienced. Nor have I seen or heard about anyone from our KH treating people as harshly as some of you have seen and heard.

Neither do I see the overt GB fawning that many of you have seen. At least not in talks, or parts - other than the Watchtower study with material from the Watchtower itself. Even there, it’s not as bad as I’ve heard of here. Although my heightened senses caught a number of cringeworthy points in the Watchtowers recently.

During the Zoom era, the majority of speakers for the Public Talk were friends and family members of those in our Congregation. We had speakers from all over the world, as well as the US. I waited with baited breath every week - THIS will be the week that I see the overt GB worship. It didn’t happen. Even as I mentioned in another thread, our CO visit didn’t have it either.

My opinion - and I allow for the possibility that I could be wrong - is that there are some places where things may have run amok due to brothers who are either drunk on power - or are inserting and emphasizing opinions in order to curry favor. Favor from whom? I don’t know. Fellow body members, CO’s, or maybe their own personal self-interest in advancement.

In any case, I stay vigilant in watching for these things. And I’m literally horrified at some of the experiences I’ve read about on this board. How some of you have been treated cuts me to the heart.

BR

Good on ya BillyRay!

My daughter who is a full time worker in the disaster relief department is experiencing similar conditions in her hall as you are. She even told me the other day to NOT TAKE the "strong suggestion to wear the mask at the meetings" seriously, because in her congo they just don't carry on like they are in our congo. My take, as limited as it likely is, I run by you now.

Whatever the political climate is in a given area, is kind of how an individual congregation (or circuit for that matter) behaves. We are all well aware of "the spirit of the air" in our ungodly system of things. That spirit appears to infect our beloved brothers and sisters albeit not overtly but covertly if you will. My direct experience serves as an example. Hawaii is a very lefty state. Some of the "less smart" people in politics who serve in high places in DC hail from Hawaii. The overall consciousness over here is very stiflingly left in its messaging. Heck, Hawaii was the very last state of all fifty states to finally ease up and lift the mask mandate for inside gatherings. It appears the way the local populace, including our dear brethren, act and react accordingly. Our congregation over here is masked to the gills at the meetings. Our elders, in particular an anointed brother, are extreme in their consistent and persistent praise of the "only means by which we get waters of truth is from the Governing Body, the Faithful and Discreet Slave". Is it possibly because of the prevalent spirit of the world that is constantly being shoved down our throats by the local media that causes our friends to behave more militantly than perhaps the friends in my daughter's congregation and your congregation? Could the "spirit of the air" be the common denominator for such diverse conditions? I am thinking that is entirely possible if not very likely to be the case. What do you think B.R.?

Is my reasoning sound or am I simply being a clashing cymbal here? Bottom line is, I would rather not be perplexed as to the inconsistent ways various congregations are treating the current state of affairs.

 

[BillyRay]

Good on ya BillyRay!

My daughter who is a full time worker in the disaster relief department is experiencing similar conditions in her hall as you are. She even told me the other day to NOT TAKE the "strong suggestion to wear the mask at the meetings" seriously, because in her congo they just don't carry on like they are in our congo. My take, as limited as it likely is, I run by you now.

Whatever the political climate is in a given area, is kind of how an individual congregation (or circuit for that matter) behaves. We are all well aware of "the spirit of the air" in our ungodly system of things. That spirit appears to infect our beloved brothers and sisters albeit not overtly but covertly if you will. My direct experience serves as an example. Hawaii is a very lefty state. Some of the "less smart" people in politics who serve in high places in DC hail from Hawaii. The overall consciousness over here is very stiflingly left in its messaging. Heck, Hawaii was the very last state of all fifty states to finally ease up and lift the mask mandate for inside gatherings. It appears the way the local populace, including our dear brethren, act and react accordingly. Our congregation over here is masked to the gills at the meetings. Our elders, in particular an anointed brother, are extreme in their consistent and persistent praise of the "only means by which we get waters of truth is from the Governing Body, the Faithful and Discreet Slave". Is it possibly because of the prevalent spirit of the world that is constantly being shoved down our throats by the local media that causes our friends to behave more militantly than perhaps the friends in my daughter's congregation and your congregation? Could the "spirit of the air" be the common denominator for such diverse conditions? I am thinking that is entirely possible if not very likely to be the case. What do you think B.R.?

Is my reasoning sound or am I simply being a clashing cymbal here? Bottom line is, I would rather not be perplexed as to the inconsistent ways various congregations are treating the current state of affairs.

Thank you so much for your insight Medi-tator. I genuinely appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts.

Quite frankly, I think your take is spot on. I had a similar thought initially - about the political environment having something to do with it. But I dismissed it - figuring that as JW’s we were immune to such things. However, the second I read your thought on the “spirit of the air” it was plain as day to me. That’s Exactly it!

The area we inhabit is close to 80%+ conservative. The government, the community, the schools, are all conservative. Interestingly, for the past year or so, you’d never even know that Covid was a thing here. Nobody wears masks. Businesses have been open and booming. The only place masks are really required are at the Medical Complex, a couple hair salons and barber shops, and a few lefty business holdovers.

It’s very plausible that the “spirit of the air” is the reason behind the differing behaviors. My fleshly brothers (non JW’s) live in the 2nd most Leftist city in my state. Everyone wears masks, everyone has been “vaxxed to the max”, and their behavior is downright militant to anyone not complying with the .gov’s orders.

Medi-tator…. Great catch.

 

[LifeLearning]

However, the second I read your thought on the “spirit of the air” it was plain as day to me. That’s Exactly it!

This makes perfect sense! The congregations reflect the varied culture of the cities all around.

Here again, the comparison to the corporate environment as Medi-tator put it: "As what commonly happens in the corporate world when similar conditions exist in what was once a highly esteemed enterprise"

I have seen the same variance in how corporate regional offices operate in my job. I used to travel all around the world (mostly US) working on projects, and the differences within the same company were hard to believe.

Invariably in the corporate world you end up with executive level people laying down rules that serve to keep questions to a minimum, lawsuits in check, all staff subject to the lowest common denominator, and of course, keep everyone from knowing what goes on at the home office on the eleventh floor.

 

[kenmuldoon55]

Should anyone go into Liverpool's Health service? 60,000 patients put on death pathway without being told but minister still says controversial end-of-life plan is 'fantastic' https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/ar...ys-controversial-end-life-plan-fantastic.html

England is becoming more like China with their heartless view of human life.