Podcast #86

[kirmmy]

The idea of returning to meetings and field service in the light of the governing bodies support of covid vaccines is extremely difficult for many. Watchman is advocating both meetings and service which leads one to feel he will follow his own advice. Or maybe not. Playing devils advocate by championing an unpopular course of action can sometimes help ones to solve a moral dilemma but it is hard to swallow.

I get it now. The thing with Robert is that he's DFed. It's a lot different to return in that case. If I went back I could keep my head low, my mouth closed and I'd probably be OK. Many here could...

But in RK's case, my Brother's case, and many others' cases it would be difficult, if not impossible, to return. A DFed one would have to meet with them and talk about many things including repentance, before they'd be reinstated. I won't go into details, to spare everyone, but I just don't see how those who know what they know now could "repent". It's either that or they lie like a sidewalk about what they know is true and at that point, they're living a lie and will have to live that lie as long as they are in that org.

 

[Chloe]

I get it now. The thing with Robert is that he's DFed. It's a lot different to return in that case. If I went back I could keep my head low, my mouth closed and I'd probably be OK. Many here could...

But in RK's case, my Brother's case, and many others' cases it would be difficult, if not impossible, to return. A DFed one would have to meet with them and talk about many things including repentance, before they'd be reinstated. I won't go into details, to spare everyone, but I just don't see how those who know what they know now could "repent". It's either that or they lie like a sidewalk about what they know is true and at that point, they're living a lie and will have to live that lie as long as they are in that org.

Yes it is very difficult for disfellowshipped ones to return. Compounded now by governing body dictates. Not impossible though. Maybe ones should stay neutral on this matter allowing an individual’s conscience to decide. If only the governing body had done the same instead of painting themselves into a corner with no escape.

 

[יהוה_saves]

@Medi-tator

thank you so much for your kind words. I agrée with you on everything.

i too am extremely grateful for finding the e-watchman website. I learned things from this website that that saved my life and my spirituality- as i was on the cusp of giving up compeltely.

I will say this: recall the angel that rebuked John for prostrating himself- the angel said “i too am but a slave, worship God”. Any special insight that any of us here have been given re: the prophetic denunciations, the second coming of Christ, and more, were given to us only by the grace of God through his Son Jesus Christ by the word and action of the Holy Spirit.

I think as witnesses, we were denied a relationship with Jesus Christ- i am taking the things i have learned here and moving on to an exegesis that is more Christ-focused, as i believe compeltely that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except by him.

I deeply appreciate the things i’ve learned and i thank Jehovah everyday for snatching me out of the fire- and i would dare say this too: Driven was right about me- my true colors were beginning to come out here on this forum and i knew that was my cue to leave (as i promised) or severely limit myself. I know i have a hostile and intolerant side- perhaps a short fuse- i struggle almost daily to suppress that, and i suppress it for Jehovah first, then myself. for the most part i am able to suppress it.

I think people should be treated with love and compassion and dignity, because of everything we are being put through by this evil world and what this organization has done to us- it harmed us and betrayed us so deeply. There is no place for sarcasm and arrogance amongst friends. IMO.

i started to perceive a lack of compassion by those who should be showing it the most. This is not in anyway a dig at Driven. we all have our moments. You and she are good stuff- i mean you are both my brother and sister and you are good in heart. But it was just an overall feeling- perhaps like a student is not above his master. he will be like his master. i cannot allow myself to go there.

I am convinced that these shots were never vaccines and they are part of a larger agenda to reduce population. I have put many hours, days, weeks of research into this. i cannot fathom that anyone could have a flippant attitude toward the mechanism used to inflict so much harm, suffering and death upon innocent people. It could be just a lack of understanding? Refusal to do the research? And now RK is trying to say the vaccines and the fake pandemic were/are an effort to rescue the transatlantic finance rackets? Not possible. The people running these rackets have an unlimited capacity to print unlimited central bank fiat and launder it through any apparatus they wish. they don’t have to kill- murder really, and cause people to suffer. I just am speechless that this suggestion was even made.

I respect you and have affection for you for having the courage to speak your truth, despite whatever blowback you may have receive (or not, i hope) or for any ill feelings you may have for me And i can only thank you for that and i do.

much love
Kim

 

[יהוה_saves]

I get it now. The thing with Robert is that he's DFed. It's a lot different to return in that case. If I went back I could keep my head low, my mouth closed and I'd probably be OK. Many here could...

But in RK's case, my Brother's case, and many others' cases it would be difficult, if not impossible, to return. A DFed one would have to meet with them and talk about many things including repentance, before they'd be reinstated. I won't go into details, to spare everyone, but I just don't see how those who know what they know now could "repent". It's either that or they lie like a sidewalk about what they know is true and at that point, they're living a lie and will have to live that lie as long as they are in that org.

completely agree.

 

[Medi-tator]

@Medi-tator

thank you so much for your kind words. I agrée with you on everything.

i too am extremely grateful for finding the e-watchman website. I learned things from this website that that saved my life and my spirituality- as i was on the cusp of giving up compeltely.

I will say this: recall the angel that rebuked John for prostrating himself- the angel said “i too am but a slave, worship God”. Any special insight that any of us here have been given re: the prophetic denunciations, the second coming of Christ, and more, were given to us only by the grace of God through his Son Jesus Christ by the word and action of the Holy Spirit.

I think as witnesses, we were denied a relationship with Jesus Christ- i am taking the things i have learned here and moving on to an exegesis that is more Christ-focused, as i believe compeltely that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except by him.

I deeply appreciate the things i’ve learned and i thank Jehovah everyday for snatching me out of the fire- and i would dare say this too: Driven was right about me- my true colors were beginning to come out here on this forum and i knew that was my cue to leave (as i promised) or severely limit myself. I know i have a hostile and intolerant side- perhaps a short fuse- i struggle almost daily to suppress that, and i suppress it for Jehovah first, then myself. for the most part i am able to suppress it.

I think people should be treated with love and compassion and dignity, because of everything we are being put through by this evil world and what this organization has done to us- it harmed us and betrayed us so deeply. There is no place for sarcasm and arrogance amongst friends. IMO.

i started to perceive a lack of compassion by those who should be showing it the most. This is not in anyway a dig at Driven. we all have our moments. You and she are good stuff- i mean you are both my brother and sister and you are good in heart. But it was just an overall feeling- perhaps like a student is not above his master. he will be like his master. i cannot allow myself to go there.

I am convinced that these shots were never vaccines and they are part of a larger agenda to reduce population. I have put many hours, days, weeks of research into this. i cannot fathom that anyone could have a flippant attitude toward the mechanism used to inflict so much harm, suffering and death upon innocent people. It could be just a lack of understanding? Refusal to do the research? And now RK is trying to say the vaccines and the fake pandemic were/are an effort to rescue the transatlantic finance rackets? Not possible. The people running these rackets have an unlimited capacity to print unlimited central bank fiat and launder it through any apparatus they wish. they don’t have to kill- murder really, and cause people to suffer. I just am speechless that this suggestion was even made.

I respect you and have affection for you for having the courage to speak your truth, despite whatever blowback you may have receive (or not, i hope) or for any ill feelings you may have for me And i can only thank you for that and i do.

much love
Kim

Beautifully written and expressed my dear Sister Kim!! Such a warm and wonderful expression of Christian love and example of what true Christianity is all about! Thank you and good to hear from you again!

Much love for you as well,

Med

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

Beautifully written and expressed my dear Sister Kim!! Such a warm and wonderful expression of Christian love and example of what true Christianity is all about! Thank you and good to hear from you again!

Much love for you as well,

Med

I certainly hope we can all come together and be an inspiration for one another. Times are hard and tough…and reading Kim and Meditators response was truly something that touched me dearly! Please, don’t let all that she may or may not agree on come between y’all. After all we are “taught by God to love one another.”

 

[Maybelle]

Some lovely responses on here ❤️

I agree with seeing the disgusting thing or at least the start of it.

maybe these questions should be answered personally and not be put out for everyone. It’s unfair to ask RK if a individual should leave the organisation esp as RK himself is disfellowshipped for speaking out against the teachings of the GB and himself will not go back and get reinstated. Also he’s not someone’s conscience it’s between the individual and Jehovah

 

[יהוה_saves]

I certainly hope we can all come together and be an inspiration for one another. Times are hard and tough…and reading Kim and Meditators response was truly something that touched me dearly! Please, don’t let all that she may or may not agree on come between y’all. After all we are “taught by God to love one another.”

we are both up. so much for sleep. it’s overrated anyway- haha

Meditator wrote this and this is what i wanted to convey to you earlier in our convo- but he says it better so i am copying here to you in case you didn’t see it:

@Medi-tator said: As for the preaching work, we are still preaching. Nothing there has changed other than turning in a time card. True Christianity is alive and well outside of the Watchtower Organization, the modern day golden calf. People are just going to have to learn the basics of the Bible the old fashioned way, by studying with those who can teach it to them properly.

This ^^^^^^ is the key to remaining true to Jehovah and a Jesus as we wait for our deliverance- this above statement is true wisdom.

Certainly not remaining in an organization that perpetuates lies, dodges civil liability for crimes against children under its jurisdiction, pushes, coerces and/or mandates extremely risky and dangerous health protocols for certain echelons of its world wide brotherhood, including local rank and file. . . . . . .just not reasonable.

 

[Chloe]

we are both up. so much for sleep. it’s overrated anyway- haha

Meditator wrote this and this is what i wanted to convey to you earlier in our convo- but he says it better so i am copying here to you in case you didn’t see it:

@Medi-tator said: As for the preaching work, we are still preaching. Nothing there has changed other than turning in a time card. True Christianity is alive and well outside of the Watchtower Organization, the modern day golden calf. People are just going to have to learn the basics of the Bible the old fashioned way, by studying with those who can teach it to them properly.

This ^^^^^^ is the key to remaining true to Jehovah and a Jesus as we wait for our deliverance- this above statement is true wisdom.

Certainly not remaining in an organization that perpetuates lies, dodges civil liability for crimes against children under its jurisdiction, pushes, coerces and/or mandates extremely risky and dangerous health protocols for certain echelons of its world wide brotherhood, including local rank and file. . . . . . .just not reasonable.

I have found it interesting these last two years to realise that if it wasnt for ones who are outside the
organisation, I wouldn’t have the knowledge and information I have now. That goes for some wonderful doctors and scientists as well. I felt that ones who were not ‘in the truth’ would not survive. That’s put a spanner in my thinking.

 

[Maybelle]

Please, is there someone out there to explain something in regards RK said about staying or not. And please it's absolutly NOT ment to be judgemental! But pure for me to fully understand, before I can make a well-considered choice and, not uninportantly, substantiate it.
Or maybe I'm to extreem, which seems to be my problem, as I'm always being told: You think too deeply! In which case I also need to understand.

Hebrews 10:26,27
I've always been thaught, that, as long as you don't know anything, you don't commit a sin. But if you know about some wrong doing and you don't act on it, you become part of the sin and you will have to pay the penalty.

Thank you in advance

I think this is a personal choice between you and Jehovah no one should influence you either way

 

[SeaGull]

Once we perceive the disgusting thing it is time to bail (let the reader use discernment). This covid scam, which in turn led to the "vax" lies are the embodiment of Disgusting! The brothers are still wearing masks, I see them doing so at all the carts in my daily travels. This too is a disgusting lie! I and my family cannot in good conscience return to the meetings to show our implied support to this disgusting thing (amongst other disgusting attributes)

Also - It ( the covid scam) is ultimately backed by the disgusting U.N. - which is a conspiracy against God's Kingdom. And it [ information approved by the UN ] seems to have infiltrated the thinking of the org. - standing right there in the pages of the WT!

People are just going to have to learn the basics of the Bible the old fashioned way, by studying with those who can teach it to them properly. This is not a matter of letting them have the "same opportunity" as us. Sending unsuspecting and hopeful people to the Watchtower nowadays is like sending them to a satanic ritualistic pagan / cultish ceremony. One on one bible studies which highlights the basic truths and then moves them on to nutritious meat and potatoes (not milk forever designed to stunt growth and cause pre-mature spiritual death) is a tried and true method.

Thank You for being forthright and honest! - I had the opportunity to learn the truth before the U.N. had such an influence of the org. - That was back when the gb did not believe they were prophets or that they were infallible. We did not worship the org, like the golden calf back then - or at least I didn't feel that I was!
Thank you for being candid - you said - " Sending unsuspecting and hopeful people to the Watchtower nowadays is like sending them to a satanic ritualistic pagan / cultish ceremony."
This is very sad but true! - The GB speaks out of both sides of their mouth, to say the least !
Naturally all of this is my very personal viewpoint , and of course I have very deep feelings. We all have to go by our own conscience, and we should never be forcing our opinion on others, - but also, we should never let anyone 'guilt us' into doing something that we feel uncomfortable with spiritually - Whether they are doing it intentionally or not.

 

[SeaGull]

I think this is a personal choice between you and Jehovah no one should influence you either way

Perfectly said! 🤩 - keep it simple and easy!

 

[Back to True Worship]

If I may offer a word on this subject, I did indeed enjoy Roberts presentation and reasoning. Having left the organization because of things I found out and then returned because I felt I should have waited upon Jehovah to rectify matters , because as I saw it , the organization was the only one promoting the truth about Jehovah and Jesus , the kingdom, the bible teachings (basic) and the love, unity and preaching work. I felt I needed the support of my family and friends to endure in this system and of course like the comment his questioner had on Herbrews 10:24,25...I too felt I could just go along with it until we see the disgusting thing and then leave. And I was reinstated just as the Covid outbreak...However , with the direction and attitude of the GB, as the masking and social distancing and evidence mounting that something was amiss, that this was really not what it seemed. Add to this the stand by the GB about the vaccine narrative as safe and effective , though many reports were coming out otherwise , and with the constant preface to their decision , that we are doing this to provide spiritual food and direction and keep the preaching work moving forward, it became increasingly clear that they were in bed with this system and told to go along with it...even perhaps receiving money for getting all the bethelites vaccinated, though at this point there is no proof of this happening. Maybe they did it to be in good standing with the UN. Whatever the reason, I personally could not keep my mouth shut to what I have seen as an attack on Jehovah's sheep which includes my family. And as has been stated here I cannot in good conscience encourage anyone to stay in the org. or bring them there thru the preaching and teaching work. I do not want to be bloodguilty , as are in my eyes the shepherds of Gods flock. But I also understand what Robert is saying , if you are in there and you need the support , not spiritually , but emotionally, physically and mentally, and you can stay there as it were to get that ..then by all means do so...but be ready to leave in a moments notice...and hope by your example you can help others.

 

[Back to True Worship]

And just to make it clear , if anyone here thinks I am still in ...not so ...was disfellowshipped for Division and am not ever going back..someone asked me when I would ....I said when Jehovah cleans his organization and brings it into the "Right Condition"....which I believe is when the Kingdom is in full sway.

 

[Back to True Worship]

@Medi-tator

thank you so much for your kind words. I agrée with you on everything.

i too am extremely grateful for finding the e-watchman website. I learned things from this website that that saved my life and my spirituality- as i was on the cusp of giving up compeltely.

I will say this: recall the angel that rebuked John for prostrating himself- the angel said “i too am but a slave, worship God”. Any special insight that any of us here have been given re: the prophetic denunciations, the second coming of Christ, and more, were given to us only by the grace of God through his Son Jesus Christ by the word and action of the Holy Spirit.

I think as witnesses, we were denied a relationship with Jesus Christ- i am taking the things i have learned here and moving on to an exegesis that is more Christ-focused, as i believe compeltely that Jesus Christ is the way the truth and the life and no one comes to the Father except by him.

I deeply appreciate the things i’ve learned and i thank Jehovah everyday for snatching me out of the fire- and i would dare say this too: Driven was right about me- my true colors were beginning to come out here on this forum and i knew that was my cue to leave (as i promised) or severely limit myself. I know i have a hostile and intolerant side- perhaps a short fuse- i struggle almost daily to suppress that, and i suppress it for Jehovah first, then myself. for the most part i am able to suppress it.

I think people should be treated with love and compassion and dignity, because of everything we are being put through by this evil world and what this organization has done to us- it harmed us and betrayed us so deeply. There is no place for sarcasm and arrogance amongst friends. IMO.

i started to perceive a lack of compassion by those who should be showing it the most. This is not in anyway a dig at Driven. we all have our moments. You and she are good stuff- i mean you are both my brother and sister and you are good in heart. But it was just an overall feeling- perhaps like a student is not above his master. he will be like his master. i cannot allow myself to go there.

I am convinced that these shots were never vaccines and they are part of a larger agenda to reduce population. I have put many hours, days, weeks of research into this. i cannot fathom that anyone could have a flippant attitude toward the mechanism used to inflict so much harm, suffering and death upon innocent people. It could be just a lack of understanding? Refusal to do the research? And now RK is trying to say the vaccines and the fake pandemic were/are an effort to rescue the transatlantic finance rackets? Not possible. The people running these rackets have an unlimited capacity to print unlimited central bank fiat and launder it through any apparatus they wish. they don’t have to kill- murder really, and cause people to suffer. I just am speechless that this suggestion was even made.

I respect you and have affection for you for having the courage to speak your truth, despite whatever blowback you may have receive (or not, i hope) or for any ill feelings you may have for me And i can only thank you for that and i do.

much love
Kim

Perhaps Robert could clarify his thoughts here, I get that he links much of this together and I believe he is right in much of this..I see it too, not just a financial thing but there are many directions the Devil is using that pushes and moves people to act...the vaccines are not for the peoples good and you are right , it is aimed at depopulation of human society , but the ways in which this is done needs the financial support or motive for people to carry out such heinous crimes against humanity.. first financial and then power and control...remember it was Satans pride and then greed that or greed and then pride that got him...and Judas Iscariot too , pride and greed and he betrayed Jesus...he was greedy for the money and also too proud to take counsel and direction from the Son of God , who as the religious leaders tried to infer ...he came out to Galilee....Jews looked down upon....remember the Zachheus said ....can anything good come out of Galilee... so too today ...greed and pride play a huge part in getting people to do the will of the Devil....who with his superior mind to us....will use all available tools and influences at his disposal to create a WEB of masterful attacks and misdirection to mislead if possible even the chosen ones....so it will be very ingrained into every part of Satans system to break integrity of those who love God....and Jesus...remember what he did to Jesus , how much he hated him for his loyalty to Jehovah...so all of this works together. May Jehovah bless us to understand and at the very least discern the devil machinations.

 

[Jonah]

If I can ask, and feel free to ignore it if you want, but what was the "division" you were DF'ed for?

 

[Back to True Worship]

If I can ask, and feel free to ignore it if you want, but what was the "division" you were DF'ed for?

I was creating division by discussing openly and on Facebook that the vaccines were dangerous and people should do research before taking them and I supplied on FB the science from, the CDC and WHO on the effectiveness of masking and social distancing...also on the whole Covid narrative and then made statements to why the GB was getting involved in our medical/health and was suggesting that there was some kind of issue or problem and that the GB be investigated by a committee for wrongdoing and association with the wild beast...and that we should expect problems within the organization as Jesus illustrations of the wheat and weeds was for our time...I then spoke to and sent text and email to the body of Elders explaining that I would and could provide information for my accusations ...and that if their was no wrongdoing that would and should be announced thru the organization....I used the example of ourselves being investigated for wrong doing and then a judicial committee being formed to take action and help any who have sinned....I suggested that they are not above scrutiny and that this was a truly theocratic way of dealing with issues of concern ...used the example of King David and Nathan... But it was I who was told to keep these things to myself and not spread it among brothers or on social media...but my social media was limited to my friends and family in the organization ...at least up until I I was then disfellowshipped...Today I am post scriptures and reasoning why this is happening and much of what Robert says without referring to him. I have a few who follow me there as friends because they have expressed the same concerns as I had....some we continue to talk on messenger ...but privately. Recently a family in the Congregation I was associated ran into me at the grocery store and they spoke very comfortably with me , which tends to indicate that they may very well feel the same way.

 

[Back to True Worship]

I also texted many in the congregation advising them not to give it to their children until we see the results of this experiment and one was an elder and he wrote me not to send him any information because he believed the GB know what they are doing...and no doubt caused him to be very vocal....I had served with many of these brothers as an Elder and Regular pioneer for more than 10 years , had parts regularly on Circuit Assemblies ...so they knew me well, an my zeal for Jehovah and the Brotherhood..like many of you I helped in KH construction locally and abroad when I had opportunity ...as I have been in Construction since 1989.
Even though I feel that they are just obedient slaves to the GB , it is hard to imagine that one could be so easily dismissed and considered one who is reckless in his faith and love for Jehovah God and his brothers....

 

[Sundial]

As the world turns... who knows how the realization of their error may suddenly come to those who abandoned us because of our concern for truth. This is a letter written by someone in Australia who realized rather late that those who stood by their principles at great personal loss were the heroes.

💉❤️ Del Bigtree ~ The UNvaccinated Will Be Vindicated! We Are the Control Group! This is HUGE, Please Share!

We the UNvaccinated have been persecuted since this whole nightmare started but we are the control group now! Many of us have lost friends, family and our jobs because of the LIES yet we are still ali

rumble.com

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

I also texted many in the congregation advising them not to give it to their children until we see the results of this experiment and one was an elder and he wrote me not to send him any information because he believed the GB know what they are doing...and no doubt caused him to be very vocal....I had served with many of these brothers as an Elder and Regular pioneer for more than 10 years , had parts regularly on Circuit Assemblies ...so they knew me well, an my zeal for Jehovah and the Brotherhood..like many of you I helped in KH construction locally and abroad when I had opportunity ...as I have been in Construction since 1989.
Even though I feel that they are just obedient slaves to the GB , it is hard to imagine that one could be so easily dismissed and considered one who is reckless in his faith and love for Jehovah God and his brothers....

BTTW so sorry you’re having to go through this! You‘re being persecuted by brothers who are really saying ‘what’s good is bad and what’s bad is good.’
Like someone said earlier, this is something we’re all going to have to face for doing what is right!
I know you probably know this but Jehovah values you and your stand for what is right! Stay strong…you’ll be in my prayers. 👍🏼