Saturday, Feb 3 - To the effect that the day of the Lord is here

[Frank D]

In order to accomplish the preaching, teaching and disciple-making work before the conclusion.

Well, there is anecdotal evidence; the fact that the core truth of the Bible is published far and wide, and an army of ministers has scoured the earth preaching the good news of the Kingdom. And you can reverse engineer it; meaning, since there will be an appointed slave on earth when Christ comes to initiate the judgment and events appear to be winding up for a global holocaust, and the Watchtower has become apostate with what fits the profile of the evil slave beating his fellow slaves, and...

This is something that I just don't seem to follow your thinking. You say the apostasy from the MOL that is the operation of Satan, is the 'declaring that the parousia has begun and the day of Jehovah is here'. You also acknowledge that that has been being declared starting with Russell and continuing on down to today. So, how did they become apostate when that teaching was always present from them from the beginning?

You can't scripturally point to when and how Jesus appointed them but nevertheless claim he did. (They don't even make that claim about themselves.) Regardless, let's say he did. Whenever he did it would be at a time that they were 'declaring that the parousia has begun and the day of Jehovah is here', because there was never a point in time that they were not declaring that. So, Jesus appointed a group of apostate people knowing that that was what they were teaching and would continue teaching?

Also, do you really think that if the Watchtower didn't make the claim about 1919 that there would be a Watchtower today? You said, 'Sure there would'. But how could that be, they would have no basis for claiming that they are God's channel over all the other religions. They would have to just say Jesus appointed us, we don't know when, but he did, just trust us about that.

 

[Melinda]

This is something that I just don't seem to follow your thinking. You say the apostasy from the MOL that is the operation of Satan, is the 'declaring that the parousia has begun and the day of Jehovah is here'. You also acknowledge that that has been being declared starting with Russell and continuing on down to today. So, how did they become apostate when that teaching was always present from them from the beginning?

My understanding is the Apostasy is the Watchtowers 10 yr secret partnership with the United Nations. The operation of Satan is the false proclamation that 1914 is year that Jesus became King and the day of Jehovah is here.

 

[Frank D]

My understanding is the Apostasy is the Watchtowers 10 yr secret partnership with the United Nations. The operation of Satan is the false proclamation that 1914 is year that Jesus became King and the day of Jehovah is here.

When it comes to the proclamation lie about 1914 it is only to convince that they had been chosen as God's channel in 1919. Without it who would follow them. What is the real harm in believing that lie in itself? The only real harm is if you are convinced that they are God's channel and they in that position in someone's life give harmful direction.

How can being an NGO for the UN for 10 years be the apostasy if the UN is not the 8th king yet? Also, if that was/is the apostasy then what is the apostasy that is still to come lead by the king of the north?

 

[Bk Kevin]

When it comes to the proclamation lie about 1914 it is only to convince that they had been chosen as God's channel in 1919. Without it who would follow them. What is the real harm in believing that lie in itself? The only real harm is if you are convinced that they are God's channel and they in that position in someone's life give harmful direction.

How can being an NGO for the UN for 10 years be the apostasy if the UN is not the 8th king yet? Also, if that was/is the apostasy then what is the apostasy that is still to come lead by the king of the north?

Although we have seen the signs of apostasy we have yet to see the full-blown apostasy that emanates from the man of lawlessness which will lead to the Antichrist and that doesn't occur until Jesus comes and reveals the man of lawlessness.

2 Thessalonians2:​

3 Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy*+ comes first and the man of lawlessness*+ gets revealed,+ the son of destruction.*+ 4 He is set in opposition+ and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple* of The God,* publicly showing himself to be a god.+​

Excerpted from>Who Is the Antichrist?​

In view of the facts presented, why do Jehovah’s Witnesses consider it to be impossible that antichrists could hold positions of responsibility within the leadership of the Watchtower? How naive to assume that deceitful men cannot disguise themselves as ministers today by going out in service and giving public talks and all of that.

Consider one other very important aspect the Watchtower glossed over. Note the third point, with the scriptural citation from Matthew 24:24 regarding those who “pretend to be Christ.” Here is what Jesus said in full: “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. Look! I have forewarned you. Therefore, if people say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence of the Son of man will be. Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
There have been quite a few unhinged individuals over the years who have claimed to be Jesus. But none of those crazies have fulfilled the words of Christ. How do we know? Because Jesus was foretelling events that would come to pass after the great tribulation is cut short. That is when “then” is, as Jesus said, “then if anyone says to you…” (Related article: When is “Then”?)

That means that false Christs and false prophets have not performed great signs and wonders yet. Furthermore, if it were possible to mislead even the chosen ones doesn’t that rule out the clergy or some trinitarian? What influence could they possibly have over those who have been anointed and called into Christ’s Kingdom? The truth is, only the Watchtower could possibly wield such influence over the chosen ones. And the fact that the Governing Body has gone to great lengths to portray the organization as the place of refuge and the ark of salvation is a sure indication that it will pretend to be such at a point in the future when Christ comes, which would place it in opposition to Christ —making it an antiChrist. (See article: The Antichrist Is Coming!) > https://e-watchman.com/who-is-the-antichrist/

 

[Frank D]

Although we have seen the signs of apostasy

What signs? Are you inferring that there is a Watchtower 'composite sign' of the apostasy?

we have yet to see the full-blown apostasy that emanates from the man of lawlessness which will lead to the Antichrist

What will be the so-called 'full blown apostasy' and how does that lead to the Antichrist? (I thought the Antichrist is the king of the north/8th king and he comes about because of WW3 and the 10 kings giving their authority to him as a result.) The apostasy is not said to occur until after the king of the north/Antichrist is put in place. Jesus coming/the day of the Lord can't come any time before that point.

and that doesn't occur until Jesus comes and reveals the man of lawlessness.

Jesus' coming doesn't reveal the man of lawlessness, when Jesus comes, he does away with him. It is what is now acting as a restraint now getting out of the way is what reveals the man of lawlessness.

 

[Bk Kevin]

Just the number of brothers that now have beards, I think is one of the biggest and worst indication that they do not follow the Bible, the Christ or Jehovah, because now they have permission from their overlords, yet none of them think twice about it. I have had a beard now for about 3 years, and when I run into a brother like I did this week, who now has a beard, all I can think of is how pathetic he really is! And it never dawns on them that they each individually answer to God, and it's obedience to God and not men that Jehovah requires! But like I keep saying, the GB just continue to prove almost daily that "it does not belong to the Governing Body, who is walking even to direct his step"...or are they not men?

Psalm 62:9​

9 Indeed the sons of earthling man* are an exhalation,aThe sons of mankind* are a lie.bWhen laid upon the scales they are all together lighter than an exhalation.c

Psalm 118:9​

9 It is better to take refuge in JehovahaThan to trust in nobles.b

Isaiah 2:22
22 For YOUR own sakes, hold off from the earthling man, whose breath* is in his nostrils,a for on what basis is he himself to be taken into account?b

Jeremiah 17:5​

5 This is what Jehovah has said: “Cursed is the able-bodied man* who puts his trust in earthling man*a and actually makes flesh his arm,b and whose heart turns away from Jehovah himself.c

 

[evw]

Cursed is the able-bodied man

Could that mean that an invalid, physically and/or brain damaged, who puts his trust in an earthly man, read: Who cannot do/understand otherwise, will not be cursed??

 

[Bk Kevin]

Could that mean that an invalid, physically and/or brain damaged, who puts his trust in an earthly man, read: Who cannot do/understand otherwise, will not be cursed??

The point is to have and put Faith only in Jehovah because only he could truly save you not the so cold noble men like the governments of this world as well as the Watchtower and tract Society- etcetera...​

Psalm146:​

146 Praise Jah, YOU people!*+Praise Jehovah, O my soul.+ 2 I will praise Jehovah during my lifetime.+I will make melody to my God as long as I am.+ 3 Do not put YOUR trust in nobles,+Nor in the son of earthling man,* to whom no salvation belongs.+ 4 His spirit* goes out,+ he goes back to his ground;+In that day his thoughts do perish.*+​

Isaiah 30:2​

2 those who are setting out to go down to Egypta and who have not inquired of my own mouth,b to take shelter in the stronghold of Pharʹaoh and to take refuge in the shadow of Egypt!c

Isaiah 31:1​

31 Woe to those going down to Egypt for assistance,a those who rely on mere horses,b and who put their trust in war chariots,c because they are numerous, and in steeds,* because they are very mighty, but who have not looked to the Holy One of Israel and have not searched for Jehovah himself.d

2 Chronicles 32:8​

8 With him there is an arm of flesh,a but with us there is Jehovah our God to help usb and to fight our battles.”c And the people began to brace themselves upon the words of Hez·e·kiʹah the king of Judah.d

Isaiah 31:3​

3 The Egyptians, though, are earthling men,*a and not God;* and their horses are flesh,b and not spirit. And Jehovah himself will stretch out his hand, and he that is offering help will have to stumble, and he that is being helped will have to fall,c and at the same time they will all of them come to an end.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

According to that, the operation of Satan has been present since the start of the Watchtower.
Why did Jesus appoint them to feed his domestics?



If there is no Scriptural connection to show when Jesus appointed them, how do you know he did?
Even they themselves know they have to use the Bible to show they were appointed, hence the lie about 1919.

The GB claim fr themselves that they have been appointed as the faithful slave. I know of no one that has claimed that to be so. However, they ask to be taken at their word, and thus it is legitimate to criticise their claim. Personally I think their claim is pomposity personified.

 

[Frank D]

The GB claim fr themselves that they have been appointed as the faithful slave. I know of no one that has claimed that to be so. However, they ask to be taken at their word, and thus it is legitimate to criticise their claim. Personally I think their claim is pomposity personified.

The GB do claim such, but they don't ask to outright be taken at their word, hence the whole 1914/19 lie. They use that lie to make that claim and know that without that lie their whole claim falls apart, that is why the need to keep whitewashing in order to keep that lie intact.

We know that the teachings of 1914/19 are a lie and therefore they were not appointed in 1919. Yet some can know that but still claim that regardless of them not being appointed in 1919 they still were appointed at some point even though they can't point to when and how they were.
Others can know that and think that they are no more or less appointed than any others claiming to be now. All will be judged when Jesus comes.

And sure, other religions claim such. They may not say the F&DS, God's channel on earth today but they say the one true Church that Jesus started, etc., stuff like that. The CC claim that Peter was the first pope and that that popeship has continued on down to the current one.

 

[Bk Kevin]

What signs? Are you inferring that there is a Watchtower 'composite sign' of the apostasy?


What will be the so-called 'full blown apostasy' and how does that lead to the Antichrist? (I thought the Antichrist is the king of the north/8th king and he comes about because of WW3 and the 10 kings giving their authority to him as a result.) The apostasy is not said to occur until after the king of the north/Antichrist is put in place. Jesus coming/the day of the Lord can't come any time before that point.


Jesus' coming doesn't reveal the man of lawlessness, when Jesus comes, he does away with him. It is what is now acting as a restraint now getting out of the way is what reveals the man of lawlessness

The definition of meekness is someone who is humble, teachable, and patient under suffering. It is showing kindness, gentleness, strength, and self-control.

Psalm 37:11
11 But the meek will possess the earth, And they will find exquisite delight in the abundance of peace.

Matthew 5:6​

those hungering and thirsting for righteousness: That is, those who long to see corruption and injustice replaced with God’s standards of right and wrong; they strive to conform to those standards.

The answers to the questions you ask can be found in the links I had provided in my first comment to you.
For further study I suggest you read Jehovah himself has become king along with your Bible> https://jehovah-is-king.com/

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

The GB do claim such, but they don't ask to outright be taken at their word, hence the whole 1914/19 lie. They use that lie to make that claim and know that without that lie their whole claim falls apart, that is why the need to keep whitewashing in order to keep that lie intact.

We know that the teachings of 1914/19 are a lie and therefore they were not appointed in 1919. Yet some can know that but still claim that regardless of them not being appointed in 1919 they still were appointed at some point even though they can't point to when and how they were.
Others can know that and think that they are no more or less appointed than any others claiming to be now. All will be judged when Jesus comes.

And sure, other religions claim such. They may not say the F&DS, God's channel on earth today but they say the one true Church that Jesus started, etc., stuff like that. The CC claim that Peter was the first pope and that that popeship has continued on down to the current one.

Yes and no. I understand your point, but it is in its translation in matters of faith and meaning that the truth ”lies” - in every sense of the word. It lies in what is implied. On the surface, they humbly imply, to the point of mockery - even self mockery in their pride, that they are fallible, that they can make mistakes, that they may not understand correctly, but then say, that their loss is because Jehovah chooses not to lift the veil on their understanding completely, “that is the way Jehovah chooses to communicate“, (with them, the GB - thus they assume Jehovah‘s direct attention, a “channel”) Winder explains (loosely put - I cannot recall the exact quote). But that pales against their authority that they wield by their every action, even their every denial in spite of their humble simpering, that they are indeed, the faithful slave, but are not responsible, are fallible if proven to be so (but not their fault, but that of Jehovah), but infallible when correct, and are innocent of all poor outcomes of their leadership. They may not ask outright to be taken at their word, yet if not to take them at their word, one can be broken, stripped of faith, stripped of all one possesses both familial and in social standing, even robbed of their home and livelihood, then where does the truth of the matter lie? In word, or in deed? There is no point whatsoever in arguing semantics when the truth speaks otherwise - is there? Not if we are to retain our sanity and be wise to the lie. We should see things for what they are and neither seek to excuse them in ourselves or in others who make such claims but prove false to its power. Thus say sayeth the bible! 2 Timothy 3 -5. Also, the bible asks us to be true to ourselves and others in both word and deed. In terms of justice, even our own putrefying courts of law seek out intent above what is said, in a lame attempt to determine the heart motivation of the offender. Therein, truth in the matter is often found. The French, for all their failings, recognise a crime of passion - why? Because as the bible says, the heart is treacherous. Thus if anything can accurately demonstrate the truth of what is said, it is the heart. Thus the GB openly condemn themselves to the one that matters - Jehovah, though they deceive their flock with smooth words.

 

[kenmuldoon55]

Although we have seen the signs of apostasy we have yet to see the full-blown apostasy that emanates from the man of lawlessness which will lead to the Antichrist and that doesn't occur until Jesus comes and reveals the man of lawlessness.

2 Thessalonians2:​

3 Let no one seduce YOU in any manner, because it will not come unless the apostasy*+ comes first and the man of lawlessness*+ gets revealed,+ the son of destruction.*+ 4 He is set in opposition+ and lifts himself up over everyone who is called “god” or an object of reverence, so that he sits down in the temple* of The God,* publicly showing himself to be a god.+​

Excerpted from>Who Is the Antichrist?​

In view of the facts presented, why do Jehovah’s Witnesses consider it to be impossible that antichrists could hold positions of responsibility within the leadership of the Watchtower? How naive to assume that deceitful men cannot disguise themselves as ministers today by going out in service and giving public talks and all of that.

Consider one other very important aspect the Watchtower glossed over. Note the third point, with the scriptural citation from Matthew 24:24 regarding those who “pretend to be Christ.” Here is what Jesus said in full: “Then if anyone says to you, ‘Look! Here is the Christ,’ or, ‘There!’ do not believe it. For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will perform great signs and wonders so as to mislead, if possible, even the chosen ones. Look! I have forewarned you. Therefore, if people say to you, ‘Look! He is in the wilderness,’ do not go out; ‘Look! He is in the inner rooms,’ do not believe it. For just as the lightning comes out of the east and shines over to the west, so the presence of the Son of man will be. Wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together.”
There have been quite a few unhinged individuals over the years who have claimed to be Jesus. But none of those crazies have fulfilled the words of Christ. How do we know? Because Jesus was foretelling events that would come to pass after the great tribulation is cut short. That is when “then” is, as Jesus said, “then if anyone says to you…” (Related article: When is “Then”?)

That means that false Christs and false prophets have not performed great signs and wonders yet. Furthermore, if it were possible to mislead even the chosen ones doesn’t that rule out the clergy or some trinitarian? What influence could they possibly have over those who have been anointed and called into Christ’s Kingdom? The truth is, only the Watchtower could possibly wield such influence over the chosen ones. And the fact that the Governing Body has gone to great lengths to portray the organization as the place of refuge and the ark of salvation is a sure indication that it will pretend to be such at a point in the future when Christ comes, which would place it in opposition to Christ —making it an antiChrist. (See article: The Antichrist Is Coming!) > https://e-watchman.com/who-is-the-antichrist/

“Although we have seen the signs of apostasy we have yet to see the full-blown apostasy”
Yes! Just as we see the coming global tyranny increasingly rearing its ugly head in the likes of Shwaab Gates and their WEF aspirations.