Stuck between Scripture and a hard place

Sunshower

Well-known member
Hi all,

This is my very first post here. I’m from The Netherlands and still a JW. But doctrines of The Watchtower organisation have been gnawing at me for a couple of years now (since child abuse came to light here, followed by the Covid madness). My husband and I are the only two people not vaxed in our congregation of over a hundred people as far as we’ve been able to determine. But the covidiocracy from the GB really pushed the limits of how far we can still trust them.

Not wanting to disobey Jehovah we find ourselves coming back to two verses in the Bible: Hebrews 10:25: “not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.” And Revelation 18:4: “And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.”

I know we have to make the decision for ourselves but I’d like to know which one you choose and your motivation to do so. As the song says: Should I stay or should I go. I’d love to hear your comments.
 

SkinnyAndShort

Well-known member
Once you really start to see the disgusting things come to light is when it’s time to leave. I can understand wanting to stay and I would even if your being judged for not following suit and getting jabbed. Stand your ground then leave when you see it…can’t imagine it being too much longer til the hidden things that are evil become fully exposed.
 

Jah-son

Well-known member
Welcome to the forum. It takes courage to explore outside the org. Your story is not unique here as I've come to know. I would suggest reading some of our experiences in the introduction section of the forum. Many here have detailed their stories there. It has helped me to read about many of the friends accounts.
All of us have different circumstances that have caused us to make various decisions regarding, "should I stay or should I go.
Personally, the support of my wife and friends is keeping me in for the moment but I'm not afraid to speak up when there are issues come up which conflict with my conscience. Some of those are soon confronting me. I'm trying to overlook the flaws that I can overlook and stand firm where I can't cross the line due to my love of Jehovah and his name and sovereignty.
I wish my spouse were on board as yours is. She is disturbed by the injection promotion but tends to overlook it as just a mistake. But I'm hopeful that Jehovah will allow things to become clearer soon and people will have to make a choice.
It's a difficult decision to make for sure. Pray and think about other Bible characters who were in the same position. That's why Jehovah recorded them. It happened frequently throughout Biblical history.
I often think of the first century Christian's who had to transition from Judaism to Christianity dealing with the apostasy of the org in their time. Also many of the prophets were confronted with apostasy from the org in their time.
I'll be interested to read about your progression going forward.
This forum has helped me a lot to find a balance in all of this confusion and know that there are like minded brothers out there who love Jehovah more that an organization or group of men. I actually feel closer to Jehovah than I have in a long time.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
Thank you both for your replies. SkinnyAndShort I have so many problems with the lies at the moment. In my search I stumbled upon the partnership with the UN and what that entails. Als Geoffry Jackson’s testimony regarding child abuse in Australia where he states it would be presumptuous of them to say they’re Jehovah’s only channel.

My husband and I frowned when we heard them say some things are better settled out of court and we didn’t understand till I found an article about an abuse victim being rewarded $25 million in damages and kingdom halls are being sold by the dozens (yes, here too).

But I so understand Jah-son and his doubts to leave the org. Like him I feel closer to Jehovah actually having read only a handful of articles on the e-watchman site compared to what is posted there. I will take your advise, Jah-son, and read the experiences of other members on the forum.

Again, thank you, you are both helping me 🙏❤️
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
Not wanting to disobey Jehovah we find ourselves coming back to two verses in the Bible: Hebrews 10:25: “not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.” And Revelation 18:4: “And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.”
The scriptures about meeting together with fellow believers is clearly for our benefit and spiritual health. The Israelites also had meetings and obligations. Even though they weren't engaged in a house to house ministry, it can be understood that living their lives according to God's requirements was supposed to be a living testimony, or witness about the one true God. What happened to meeting attendance when the prophet Elijah had to run for his life? Did Jehovah consider him to be disobedient? When the rest of Israel engaged in Baal worship or sacrificed to Molech, were right hearted Jews expected to attend or mix in? Nay, say I.

For the last two years I've been preaching to the people online about being cautious regarding not only the injections but also the lies that support it. Robert King just released a new page this morning and he phrased what I've been saying but he put the words together better than I did. "The world is ruled over by the father of the lie and the original manslayer. How could there not be a conspiracy against truth?"
We are Jehovah's Witnesses and we have always understood this. For years though, the Governing Body has chosen to back away from the denunciation of the UN (which includes World Health Organization WHO) as being in opposition to God. I've mentioned it a few times on here, but it bears repeating, if you pay attention to the language in the pages of the Watchtower and on JW.org, and then read the latest from the UN, it will sound one and the same.
How else could this have happened except by betrayal? I was about to try and start making meetings, just to feel better. The more the GB talks about Covid, the more I am convinced that now is not a good time to mix in. My reason is that if they have betrayed us to the wild beast, where does that betrayal lead to, or end?
 

Nomex

Well-known member
But doctrines of The Watchtower organisation have been gnawing at me for a couple of years now (since child abuse came to light here, followed by the Covid madness). My husband and I are the only two people not vaxed in our congregation of over a hundred people as far as we’ve been able to determine. But the covidiocracy from the GB really pushed the limits of how far we can still trust them.
I have been "in the truth" my whole life. "Born in." Many years ago I started to pick up on certain things that were wrong, and it really bothered me, and in some sense "stumbled me." "Stumbled" in the WT sense. (Now that I have found this place I realize it was closer to righteous indignation" than being stumbled.) I had adopted kind of a wait and see attitude.

In any case when the whole Covid garbage started that's when I really started to question things, and at a certain point I knew there was no putting my head in the sand any more. We still "attend" Zoom meetings since I am not getting vaccinated. and I am not wearing a face diaper, to cover my "diseased criminal face." Nor am I having my children do that since I've never made them wear this stupid mask, since I know what they actually do and don't do. They make you sick for one thing and for a fact weaken your immune system.

However it is indeed a dilemma. Just this morning I found my self almost sub-subconsciously, making excuses for the GB, thinking as Jah-Son said, "did they just make a mistake?" But then all the realities of the whole thing come rushing over me. Like the fact they claim that praying about this is some how direction from Jehovah, when they were/are clearly simply parroting what the governments, media and Big Pharma were pushing. I've stated on this forum more than once that the only thing missing form the updates was "brought to you by Pfizer". At least the media is honest about selling out. And then Loshce comparing covering your mouth for a split second when you cough or sneeze to healthy people wearing a mask 24/7. And children wearing the mask 24/7. I just don't see though things as a mistake. And for the final nail in the coffin Loshe saying if we "obey" the GB "we will be blessed and more importantly we'll have unity." So Unity is more important than Jehovah's blessing!!!!!??????????
I'm trying to overlook the flaws that I can overlook and stand firm where I can't cross the line due to my love of Jehovah and his name and sovereignty.
And this is the real dilemma. But I am having a hard time listening to anything coming from them without a feeling of contempt. It saddens me greatly because this is all I've ever known, and I do believe there are many well meaning and good hearted brothers and sisters. But the hardest thing for me is knowing that all these people have just bought the brain washing liars, from Satan's governments, because that is what it is. None of this came from the GB, all they did was "re-gift" all the Covid hysteria and put there calling card on it!

Instead of actually doing any independent research of their own, weighing to two sides of the issue they just went with the Governments official story. The expression "weighing in" comes from the old scales. You know the illustration of the "blind lady justice holding the balance of justice. If you don't put something on the other side of the scale, you are not "weighing" the information we are getting. It has to be counter balanced with something other wise all we are doing is repeating what we have been told! Brain washed!
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
BagdadBill and Nomex, thank you. I just had a conversation about this with my husband again and he said the following (him being the brains and I’m being the heart in this marriage, just like Jehovah made us 😉):

He says that the core, the basics, of the teachings of this org have taught us what we know today. And the basics are good; God is Almighty, his name is Jehovah, Jesus is His son who He sent to earth to die for our sins and Jesus will rule as king over Jehovah’s kingdom for 1000, together with the 144.000.

But as Br. King states the Jewish priest became corrupt, so did the Christians after Jesus’ death and so has the org in this time. Hubby says we need to wait for what is said in 1 Peter 4:17 “For it is the appointed time for the judgment to start with the house of God. Now if it starts first with us, what will the outcome be for those who are not obedient to the good news of God?” And my head gets this! When judgement starts the org will be cleansed, he says. And that makes sense to me.

Like Nomex we watch the meetings using Zoom as we refuse to wear masks. I haven’t wore one since this nonsense and I’m not about to start as the fibers get stuck in your lungs and will make millions ill. Also the oxygen levels in masks are 17,4% and anything under 19% is considered dangerous. But besides that, I feel like a hypocrite just logging in (I am typing this during our meeting, it’s 6PM here now). As I said, no one can make this decision for me and I respect my husband as head of the family so I’m not leaving without him. But my heart’s not in it.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
The preaching work has been continuing through indirect means (letter writing, phone witnessing, etc.) all along. I'm hoping that soon (September?) we will be going back to our full public ministry.
Sorry but in the beginning 5 of us took 2 hours to write a card to a sister’s cousin (she was very precise about what she didn’t want in there). That is 10 hours reported as field ministry, I felt like a total hypocrite.

Also our circle overseer told our elders that efficiency isn’t one of the fruitige of the spirit so half of the ministry is just “reconnecting” with brs and srs who we haven’t seen face to face in over a year.
 

a watcher

Well-known member
Sorry but in the beginning 5 of us took 2 hours to write a card to a sister’s cousin (she was very precise about what she didn’t want in there). That is 10 hours reported as field ministry, I felt like a total hypocrite.

Also our circle overseer told our elders that efficiency isn’t one of the fruitige of the spirit so half of the ministry is just “reconnecting” with brs and srs who we haven’t seen face to face in over a year.
I agree that indirect witnessing is inefficient but it's all we've been able to do due to Caesar/GB restrictions.
 

Nomex

Well-known member
Also the oxygen levels in masks are 17,4% and anything under 19% is considered dangerous.
Bingo...it's funny you wrote that because I was just reading the insert for a 3M half-mask respirator. Under "Use limitations" the first thing it says is 1: This respirator does not supply oxygen. Do not use in atmospheres that contain less than 19.% oxygen.

All actual respirators have check valves, which allow you to exhale everything you breathe in. They create positive pressure, you cannot inhale through the check valve and you cannot exhale through the filters! Under the heading of "Fitting Instructions" 5: it says, "Perform a positive pressure and/or negative pressure user seal check. The positive pressure method is recommended. (See instructions below)

INSTRUCTIONS FOR POSITIVE AND
NEGATIVE PRESSURE USER SEAL CHECKS
Do not use with beards or other facial hair or
other conditions that prevent direct contact
between the face and the faceseal of the

respirator.
Positive Pressure User Seal Check
Place the palm of your hand over the exhalation
valve cover and exhale gently, see Diagram 7. If
the facepiece bulges slightly and no air leaks are
detected between your face and the faceseal, a
proper fit has been obtained. If faceseal air leakage
is detected, reposition the respirator on your face
and/or readjust the tension of the elastic straps to
eliminate the leakage. Repeat the above steps. If
you cannot achieve a proper fit, do not enter the

contaminated area. See your supervisor.
Negative Pressure User Seal Check


In other words a "respirator" that does not "seal" on your face is useless and all the government agencies know this, this is all regulated by OSHA!
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
Bingo...it's funny you wrote that because I was just reading the insert for a 3M half-mask respirator. Under "Use limitations" the first thing it says is 1: This respirator does not supply oxygen. Do not use in atmospheres that contain less than 19.% oxygen.
I have a study saved on my ipad called “Masks, false safety and real dangers, Part 1: Friable mask particulate and lung vulnerability” by Boris Borovoy, Colleen Huber, Q Makeeta.

sadly I can’t attach it but if you’re interested just PM me and I will send it to you. It is extremely interesting and warns about the risk of Pulmonary Fibrosis caused by fibers and loose particles in masks. It also states: Optimal oxygen intake in humans has been calculated in the absence of any obstruction to the airways. The US Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA) has determined that the optimal range of oxygen in the air for humans is between 19.5 and 23.5%. In previous times, before the COVID-19 era, OSHA required that any human-occupied airspace where oxygen measured less than 19.5% to be labelled as “not safe for workers.” The percentage of oxygen inside a masked airspace generally measures 17.4% within several seconds of wearing.
 

Nomex

Well-known member
The percentage of oxygen inside a masked airspace generally measures 17.4% within several seconds of wearing
Part of the reason for that is why I made the comment about the check valve is when you exhale into these "masks" it prevents you from properly exhaling all the carbon dioxide that you just breathed in, and used up a bunch of the oxygen that was in the air you inhaled. The real problem is they are blocking the exhalation of the carbon dioxide.


In addition to that, all the other inherit health problems they cause because they are bacteria factories. I'll PM you, I would like to read that.
 

Jah-son

Well-known member
Sorry but in the beginning 5 of us took 2 hours to write a card to a sister’s cousin (she was very precise about what she didn’t want in there). That is 10 hours reported as field ministry, I felt like a total hypocrite.

Also our circle overseer told our elders that efficiency isn’t one of the fruitige of the spirit so half of the ministry is just “reconnecting” with brs and srs who we haven’t seen face to face in over a year.
I've never felt good about "counting and reporting ministry time". I understand the rational but its unscriptural and fosters a competitive spirit whether intended or not. We should simply endeavor to do our best and be regular, that's it. I'm an adult, I don't need someone to monitor me and I don't need some title to prove how much time I spend preaching. Jehovah certainly doesn't pay attention to such nonsense. Our new congregation has basically run out of viable phone territory so now we are calling the phone numbers that come with cable packages (which nobody uses due to cell phones). So now we basically leave voice messages that will never be listened to for 2 hours on Sunday and praise each other for our excellent preaching skills. Wow! How productive. Its the equivalent to knocking on a vacant house and giving your presentation to the door.
One thing that some local brothers have done is write general letters (Good day neighbor....) and hand them out to people they may contact throughout the day (store clerks, etc.). IMO this is the closest to actual ministry that we can do right now and I really don't understand the difference between this and street witnessing where people would have to approach us if they feel comfortable doing so. But I really feel that phone work has mostly dried up and a waste of time now. People in our area know not to answer or flat out tell us we are harassing them and to stop calling. I don't mind posting a few letters, as I know several sisters who've actually started Bible studies through letter writing so it can be effective.
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
Instead of actually doing any independent research of their own
Nomex's post was spot on in my opinion. Also, it would be very difficult to conduct a ministry where you teach the big lies along with basic truths. As some have said, it might be necessary to teach a bible student that there are some things in error, but the basics are true. Otherwise what? Teach the WT take on everything... that would be a ministry of blood guilt.

It was a shock to me when I found that the GB were going along with the well documented covid SCAM. (anyone who would do a small amount of research would know better) Most people of all walks of life are walking right along with the lies. (and a large portion of those knowing it to be wrong, but believing the lie that it is "for the greater good".

Unfortunately this includes most of JWs. When it comes time to take the mark of the beast many JWs will go right along if the GB says to do so: Proven by the widespread covid compliance. (example my local hall is in one of the most liberal places in the USA and although everywhere else the masks are no longer in use, the hall is 100% masked.)

This meme is a great 2 second caption of this madness. How masks work, why, and all the reasons for them are well documented. The cloth masks are to divide the people and keep the fear going, nothing more.
 

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BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Hi all,

This is my very first post here. I’m from The Netherlands and still a JW. But doctrines of The Watchtower organisation have been gnawing at me for a couple of years now (since child abuse came to light here, followed by the Covid madness). My husband and I are the only two people not vaxed in our congregation of over a hundred people as far as we’ve been able to determine. But the covidiocracy from the GB really pushed the limits of how far we can still trust them.

Not wanting to disobey Jehovah we find ourselves coming back to two verses in the Bible: Hebrews 10:25: “not forsaking our meeting together, as some have the custom, but encouraging one another, and all the more so as you see the day drawing near.” And Revelation 18:4: “And I heard another voice out of heaven say: “Get out of her, my people, if you do not want to share with her in her sins, and if you do not want to receive part of her plagues.”

I know we have to make the decision for ourselves but I’d like to know which one you choose and your motivation to do so. As the song says: Should I stay or should I go. I’d love to hear your comments.
Clearly the choice you make must be your own and not based on the recommendation of men. That’s what cost me so dearly. It is the bible of course that leads the way. Have you visited e-watchman.com.? There is a much more in-depth discussion of the scripture and an archive that will inform you of the balance between the watchtower and those seeking the truth. I found this site about seven years ago and whilst remaining neutral insofar as the decision making of others, I can tell you truthfully that I have learnt more about the truth there than anywhere else…and all of it good. I would recommend that you sign up to e-watchman.com and see for yourself. As with all things about the truth, it speaks for itself. This channel here, is part of e-watchman and has many good points about discussion of biblical issues, but the primary site is still the best in teaching from the scripture. For an exclusive and impartial voice on the scriptures it is probably unique in its honesty. What will be of interest to you is the very real part in the biblical narrative that the watchtower has. Welcome to the site though. As an ex-JW but still a JW in heart I can tell you honestly that you will come to know the truth, and that the truth will set you free just as Jehovah said it would. This is truth, washed clean of the machinations of men. It is so refreshing, so true, and such a relief to find that Jehovah has not abandoned His people not matter what the watchtower has done.
 
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