Stuck between Scripture and a hard place

[4JahandChrist]

My experience was the exact same thing, @Driven.

Two hours of superficial conversation about the weather, knitting, sister populars’s new puppy- and 15 minutes of choosing a pre-written template for targeting an address or phone number (as opposed to targeting actual people) to preach to.

A complete mockery of Christ’s command to preach the good news of the Kingdom.

Does the Gov Body even suggest informal witnessing anymore or has that been discontinued too.

We had field services experiences at the Zoom a few weeks back and they had one experience of a Brother who kept his RV going over Zoom due to the Covid protocols. The same part...different Brother. He was doing informal witnessing at Coffee shops and down at the Park. Strange. You can't go to an established RVs house because of Covid but it's safe to chat to random strangers in Public?? Odd. (even if the RV was fully agreeable they still wouldn't budge)

Same with a Bible Study I was helping with on Zoom. The Brother taking the study could meet up with the Student at MickyDees for a Coffee and Burgers but couldn't meet up with him in person at his residence. Like so many of the Policies....confusing and non sensical.

 

[Sunshower]

Does the Gov Body even suggest informal witnessing anymore or has that been discontinued too.

Hi Kim,

I find that everything is about judicial accountability these days. Yes, you may do informal witnessing but at your own risk (of course socially distanced and avoid at all cost that the party you give witness can sue the org if they get covid). This has nothing to do with the command in Matthew 28:19,20.

Im Kim- I’m from the Pacific Northwest of the USA- I’ve been to your fine country many times- I have relatives in Den Haag- not JWs. I think of them often and worry so much about them.

I live about an hour north of The Hague. I have family on my father’s side that live there but I don’t know them. My grandfather came from that area.
Holland is not what it once was. We have totally caved and submitted to the New World Order. It’s sickening, but that is what must happen, I guess.

 

[Sunshower]

We had field services experiences at the Zoom a few weeks back and they had one experience of a Brother who kept his RV going over Zoom due to the Covid protocols.

What’s an RV if you don’t mind me asking? I see a big motorhome in my mind 😂

 

[StillA_WorshiperOfJah]

What’s an RV if you don’t mind me asking? I see a big motorhome in my mind 😂View attachment 1212

Return Visit?

 

[יהוה_saves]

We had field services experiences at the Zoom a few weeks back and they had one experience of a Brother who kept his RV going over Zoom due to the Covid protocols. The same part...different Brother. He was doing informal witnessing at Coffee shops and down at the Park. Strange. You can't go to an established RVs house because of Covid but it's safe to chat to random strangers in Public?? Odd. (even if the RV was fully agreeable they still wouldn't budge)

Same with a Bible Study I was helping with on Zoom. The Brother taking the study could meet up with the Student at MickyDees for a Coffee and Burgers but couldn't meet up with him in person at his residence. Like so many of the Policies....confusing and non sensical.

strange. Like everything else in the org -it’s always one foot on the gas, they other on the brake.

@Sunshower haha i kept picturing a motor home too after reading your comment. ppppp

 

[Sunshower]

Return Visit?

Sound a lot more logical 😁

 

[יהוה_saves]

of course socially distanced and avoid at all cost that the party you give witness can sue the org if they get covid

you’re absolutely correct.

 

[4JahandChrist]

What’s an RV if you don’t mind me asking? I see a big motorhome in my mind 😂View attachment 1212

Heh. I like your form . You'll fit in here just fine. ( I could see Driven and Mediator living in that......tumbling out of the side door in a flurry of Beer Cans and coconut crumbs. )

RV is Return Visit. It's what we say to try and make the Field Service sound edgy and cool. 🥷

 

[4JahandChrist]

strange. Like everything else in the org -it’s always one foot on the gas, they other on the brake.

@Sunshower haha i kept picturing a motor home too after reading your comment. ppppp

Hey I thought RV was universal Witness slang? Maybe it's more an Aussie thing? I know when Aussies visit America they can't believe the Yankee Brothers call each other "Friends". That never happens here.

 

[יהוה_saves]

Holland is not what it once was. We have totally caved and submitted to the New World Order.

i know and that’s just so tragic. The EU is bit ahead of the US i think, in terms of setting up the NWO- for this reason i worry about my relatives so much.

My nephew from Paris live in UK- he just got married in Paris a few months ago, he and his bride insisted on having a traditional Armenian church wedding with all the frills; the attendees all had to be vaccinate of course- the entire family of five came down with Covid- one was incredibly sick, nearly hospitalized.

They all regret getting the shots and are now looking for ways to detox.

 

[יהוה_saves]

Hey I thought RV was universal Witness slang? Maybe it's more an Aussie thing? I know when Aussies visit America they can't believe the Yankee Brothers call each other "Friends". That never happens here.

you’re right RV is universal for return visit- but when I saw @Sunshower ‘s picture, my mind kept reverting to a motor home. I’m
impressionable that way /-:. haha!

You guys don’t use the term “friends” for the brotherhood?

 

[4JahandChrist]

you’re right RV is universal for return visit- but when I saw @Sunshower ‘s picture, my mind kept reverting to a motor home. I’m
impressionable that way /-:. haha!

You guys don’t use the term “friends” for the brotherhood?

No never. I had some friends visit the US in the 90's and they said "hey guess what the American Brothers call each other......FRIENDS. " We were like...."what the?? You mean like Quakers?"

 

[יהוה_saves]

@David1982

well said and i completely agree.

 

[יהוה_saves]

If I returned to a Kingdom Hall, on Zoom or in person, I would have to speak up, and tell the brothers what I know to be the truth, about the duplicity and the harm being inflicted to them by the so-called channel. How many would be willing to listen? I would be labeled a troublemaker, and expelled from the synagogue as fast as I got in.

see that’s the thing- if one is awake to the defects of WT, how far is he willing to go? Where does he draw the line?

And you’re right- there is no threshold where he won’t get expelled from the congregation for voicing an opinion that differs in anyway to that of the Gov Body leadership. This leaves him with no option but to hide his authentic self- his sense of right and wrong. To me, that is very impactful.

 

[Jah-son]

see that’s the thing- if one is awake to the defects of WT, how far is he willing to go? Where does he draw the line?

And you’re right- there is no threshold where he won’t get expelled from the congregation for voicing an opinion that differs in anyway to that of the Gov Body leadership. This leaves him with no option but to hide his authentic self- his sense of right and wrong. To me, that is very impactful.

This is simply my current personal leanings on this matter based on my knowledge of scripture. If I need correction or perspective please feel free to chime in.
The scripture that always comes to mind when I'm contemplating the dilemma mentioned is Matt 23: 3 where Jesus is giving direction to the disciples regarding the hypocrites (Scribes and Pharisees) and how they should deal with them. He states the following: "Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say."
In principle we are in a similar position dealing with the GB and their unscriptural rules and traditions are we not? So Jesus guidance fits the bill.
We do what we can to comply as did the disciples and where they go beyond Jehovah's regulations we obey God as ruler rather than men until correction is made by Jesus (head of the congregation).
If we are expelled from the Synagogue (congregation) for standing firm, so be it.
Personally I no longer feel that it's my responsibility to warn any JWs about the GB deviations. We are all personally responsible to stay alert and keep on the watch. This would be especially true in regards to corruption from within. I really think Jehovah is allowing this to take place as a test of personal loyalty. This is why we are not having much success "waking up" brothers. Their own conscience has to recognize the wrongdoing and nudge them to action.

 

[Sunshower]

Hey I thought RV was universal Witness slang? Maybe it's more an Aussie thing? I know when Aussies visit America they can't believe the Yankee Brothers call each other "Friends". That never happens here.

I'm Dutch, remember My English isn't that bad, but when it comes to abbreviations of JW terms, I'm a complete noob

Here it's called a "nabezoek" so NB in short. I just love watching video's of RV's on YouTube so maybe it's just my imagination not to connect it to the logical thing.

 

[Sunshower]

i know and that’s just so tragic. The EU is bit ahead of the US i think, in terms of setting up the NWO- for this reason i worry about my relatives so much.

My nephew from Paris live in UK- he just got married in Paris a few months ago, he and his bride insisted on having a traditional Armenian church wedding with all the frills; the attendees all had to be vaccinate of course- the entire family of five came down with Covid- one was incredibly sick, nearly hospitalized.

They all regret getting the shots and are now looking for ways to detox.

Stories like these make me so sad. I am still amazed that no one in our congregation has died of the jab yet. We do however have three people with cancer (one with returning cancer). In his prayer yesterday the brother mentioned the many sick, but despite having a Whatsapp group in which the sick are announced, since the jab it has been unnaturally quiet.

The EU is already the NWO on small terms. We lost our currency, we are governed from Brussels. All these things were to encourage free travel around Europe. Now I can't leave my own country without a vaccine passport. The unvaccinated can't go to restaurants, movie theaters, gyms, etc. in winter. Parents whose kids were learning how to swim, couldn't dry off and clothe their children at the swimming pools. They had to wait for their soaking wet children to come outside to dry them off or leave them with swimming pool personnel (cause strangers are really to be trusted with your naked child). I'm so glad I don't have children. At the moment it's spring so all restrictions have been lifted but you can bet your bottom dollar they will be reintroduced in September. Around the same time Russia is going to cut off our gas.

George Soros has bought up the company that produces school books in Holland. God only knows what they're learning kids in school these days.
I agree with the apostle John who said:"Amen, come Lord Jesus"

 

[יהוה_saves]

This is simply my current personal leanings on this matter based on my knowledge of scripture. If I need correction or perspective please feel free to chime in.
The scripture that always comes to mind when I'm contemplating the dilemma mentioned is Matt 23: 3 where Jesus is giving direction to the disciples regarding the hypocrites (Scribes and Pharisees) and how they should deal with them. He states the following: "Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say."
In principle we are in a similar position dealing with the GB and their unscriptural rules and traditions are we not? So Jesus guidance fits the bill.
We do what we can to comply as did the disciples and where they go beyond Jehovah's regulations we obey God as ruler rather than men until correction is made by Jesus (head of the congregation).
If we are expelled from the Synagogue (congregation) for standing firm, so be it.
Personally I no longer feel that it's my responsibility to warn any JWs about the GB deviations. We are all personally responsible to stay alert and keep on the watch. This would be especially true in regards to corruption from within. I really think Jehovah is allowing this to take place as a test of personal loyalty. This is why we are not having much success "waking up" brothers. Their own conscience has to recognize the wrongdoing and nudge them to action.

i completely agree with you. and just to expound a bit on what you aptly commented on above: the only difference that i see between the Pharisees of Jesus’s day and the Gov Body of today is the draconian shunning policy (expulsion- as you mentioned) that allows today’s leadership to not just expel a man, not just treat a man as if he were dead, but treat a man as if he never existed.

I often compare this policy to the sword of Damocles, suspended over every JWs head, by a single strand of Stephen Lett’s gray hair.

It’s the elephant in room, it’s the policing policy that every JW lives with that prevents him from cultivating deep bonds with others- for fear of revealing something about his authentic self that is in conflict with the Gov Body’s thinking.

I mean let’s face it, it’s impossible to have your thinking 100% aligned with a body of men who arbitrarily change doctrines and policies for the sole purpose to indemnify the organization. Yet that is what the Gov Body demands of all JWs. correct me if i’m wrong.

Everyone is aware of the harshness of this policy and so there is a threshold or boundary in which every woke JW must predetermine that he will not violate for the sake of avoiding disfellowship.

Does that make sense?

I’m open for correction on all things. I don’t know much at all about the way the Pharisees controlled ordinary Jews back then.

 

[Sunshower]

This is simply my current personal leanings on this matter based on my knowledge of scripture. If I need correction or perspective please feel free to chime in.
The scripture that always comes to mind when I'm contemplating the dilemma mentioned is Matt 23: 3 where Jesus is giving direction to the disciples regarding the hypocrites (Scribes and Pharisees) and how they should deal with them. He states the following: "Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say."
In principle we are in a similar position dealing with the GB and their unscriptural rules and traditions are we not? So Jesus guidance fits the bill.
We do what we can to comply as did the disciples and where they go beyond Jehovah's regulations we obey God as ruler rather than men until correction is made by Jesus (head of the congregation).
If we are expelled from the Synagogue (congregation) for standing firm, so be it.
Personally I no longer feel that it's my responsibility to warn any JWs about the GB deviations. We are all personally responsible to stay alert and keep on the watch. This would be especially true in regards to corruption from within. I really think Jehovah is allowing this to take place as a test of personal loyalty. This is why we are not having much success "waking up" brothers. Their own conscience has to recognize the wrongdoing and nudge them to action.

This is exactly what my husband is saying. Do as they say, not as they do. He says we need to be patient cause Jehovah will soon intervene and clean out the weeds.

I spoke out at the beginning of the scamdemic but was told not to scare the brothers and sisters. I have been quiet ever since but as a result I don't feel a connection to my brothers and sisters anymore. When I bump into them in the street it's awkward. Pleasantries are exchanged but that is a far cry from how it used to be.

I feel your pain, it's hard. As much as I understand @David1982, I see how much problems my friend from a different congregation has who does speak up. She's very stressed and that is simply not worth it as I see it as it's pearls before swine. It's just hard, which ever way you look at it.

 

[BARNABY THE DOG.]

I'm Dutch, remember My English isn't that bad, but when it comes to abbreviations of JW terms, I'm a complete noob

Here it's called a "nabezoek" so NB in short. I just love watching video's of RV's on YouTube so maybe it's just my imagination not to connect it to the logical thing.

My Dutch is pretty poor, but one word I’ll never forget is Frikandellen. Great street food. And those chips with Dutch mayonnaise! Not to forget though a good bottle of Bols Of course!