Stuck between Scripture and a hard place

Sunshower

Well-known member
My Dutch is pretty poor, but one word I’ll never forget is Frikandellen. Great street food. And those chips with Dutch mayonnaise! Not to forget though a good bottle of Bols Of course!
Actually our minister of health at the time said about people complaining about the contents of the vaccine that you don't know what's in a frikandel either. Oh, the logic of the elite 🤦‍♀️
 

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יהוה_saves

Well-known member
I'm Dutch, remember ;) My English isn't that bad,

@Sunshower

during my times in the Netherlands, i found almost everyone i came into contact with spoke excellent, fluent English- many even spoke with an American accent using American slang.

But when I lived in Paris, English as a second language was rare.

on a side note- Amsterdam was the worst city in EU city i ever had to drive in. omgsh- all those bikes! one time I was caught in a snowstorm in Amsterdam and that didn’t stop the bikers at all but I nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to drive in it- even when the roads were bare.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
Actually our minister of health at the time said about people complaining about the contents of the vaccine that you don't know what's in a frikandel either. Oh, the logic of the elite 🤦‍♀️
huh? people have been eating frikandel for what- centuries? and nobody keeled over dead or lost the use of their legs or developed clots in their lungs or suffered excruciating pain. etc etc etc omgsh these elites. how stupid do they think people are. how stupid does someone have to be to buy into that line of bull?
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
@Sunshower

during my times in the Netherlands, i found almost everyone i came into contact with spoke excellent, fluent English- many even spoke with an American accent using American slang.

But when I lived in Paris, English as a second language was rare.

on a side note- Amsterdam was the worst city in EU city i ever had to drive in. omgsh- all those bikes! one time I was caught in a snowstorm in Amsterdam and that didn’t stop the bikers at all but I nearly had a nervous breakdown trying to drive in it- even when the roads were bare.
I worked in Amsterdam for many years, I found Paris to be much worse 😂 I like to keep my car bump free 😉

The positive thing about Dutch tv is that we have subtitles instead of everything being dubbed. So kids kinda learn English on the go from an early age. I was 5 when my parents first took me to Schotland and we’ve been visiting there and England and Wales many times after that.
It’s now become too expensive to go. It would cost us 1 month’s salary of both my husband and myself for just one week. Ironically travel to and from the UK doesn’t require a covid passport. Most other countries in Europe do.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
huh? people have been eating frikandel for what- centuries? and nobody keeled over dead or lost the use of their legs or developed clots in their lungs or suffered excruciating pain. etc etc etc omgsh these elites. how stupid do they think people are. how stupid does someone have to be to buy into that line of bull?
He was speaking about the Johnson vaccine, which is called Janssen here. The government advertised it as “dansen met Janssen” (Dancing with Johnson) as you only needed one jab and you could go clubbing right after you took the jab. So lots of young people took it. They are nothing short of murderers 😡
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
I worked in Amsterdam for many years, I found Paris to be much worse 😂 I like to keep my car bump free 😉

The positive thing about Dutch tv is that we have subtitles instead of everything being dubbed. So kids kinda learn English on the go from an early age. I was 5 when my parents first took me to Schotland and we’ve been visiting there and England and Wales many times after that.
It’s now become too expensive to go. It would cost us 1 month’s salary of both my husband and myself for just one week. Ironically travel to and from the UK doesn’t require a covid passport. Most other countries in Europe do.
fortunately i didn’t live or drive in the city- but 12 miles east in les pavilion sous bois.

that is sad that the purchasing power of the currency has diminished so much- they just print up unlimited amounts for themselves at the ECB decimating the purchasing power, but the elites don’t care- do not harm the olive oil and wine, right?

it’s the situation here in America-

yes It IS very ironic that the UK doesn’t require a vaccine passport. Makes you wonder what they have up their sleeve.

Nothing they do isn’t pre-planned and part of a larger blueprint for their NWO (Eighth King) regime.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
that is sad that the purchasing power of the currency has diminished so much- they just print up unlimited amounts for themselves at the ECB decimating the purchasing power, but the elites don’t care- do not harm the olive oil and wine, right?

it’s the situation here in America-
I follow some prepper channels on YouTube and the situation in the States is way worse than here. We had a toiletpaper crisis in 2020 🤦‍♀️ (Cause wiping your behind is more important than food) and recently we had a sunflower oil shortage apparently because of the war in Ukraine. Ironically all our sunflower oil comes from Spain and France.

Prices are rising rapidly here But at least the stores are still full. I saw a bit about the baby formula shortage while there is plenty at the border with Mexico. Alaska Prepper got the tip that if you change your vpn settings to Canada you can still order formula on Amazon.

yes It IS very ironic that the UK doesn’t require a vaccine passport. Makes you wonder what they have up their sleeve.
The UK was the first country to lift all covid measures while other countries like Austria were still trying to get the vaccine mandated for every citizen.
Nothing they do isn’t pre-planned and part of a larger blueprint for their NWO (Eighth King) regime.
I literally don’t trust anything governments do.
 

David1982

Well-known member
I feel your pain, it's hard. As much as I understand @David1982, I see how much problems my friend from a different congregation has who does speak up. She's very stressed and that is simply not worth it as I see it as it's pearls before swine. It's just hard, which ever way you look at it.
There is no easy way out from this situation. At the end of the day, I think we all try to do what we believe to be the right thing, and be at peace with ourselves and with our conscience.
My sister had two heart attacks from the jabs, she had no cardiac issues whatsoever before. She's probably on borrowed time now. There's no way for me not to warn those around me of the dangers of the injections, if given the opportunity.

Jesus always spoke the truth, even when it endangered his life. I can't reconcile what he taught, I can't see the loyalty to him in remaining in an organization advocating the deceptive and suicidal policies of Satan's system.

23 But when your eye is unhealthy, your whole body is filled with darkness. And if the light you think you have is actually darkness, how deep that darkness is! (Matthew 6:23, NLT)
 

Nomex

Well-known member
I just love watching video's of RV's on YouTube
RV actually means what you think it means in English! Recreational vehicle. That's actually how I read it too, because anytime I heard that term "RV" referred to a "return visit" it was spoken and in clear context by another JW. I don't think I have ever read it in this context. I had to go back and re-read what was written because I thought the same thing as you and I was born in. LOL. It didn't make any sense the first time I read it...not to mention I had never read about anyone making a "return visit" over Zoom, since a Zoom meeting by definition is NOT a visit!
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
We had field services experiences at the Zoom a few weeks back and they had one experience of a Brother who kept his RV going over Zoom due to the Covid protocols. The same part...different Brother. He was doing informal witnessing at Coffee shops and down at the Park. Strange. You can't go to an established RVs house because of Covid but it's safe to chat to random strangers in Public?? Odd. (even if the RV was fully agreeable they still wouldn't budge)

Same with a Bible Study I was helping with on Zoom. The Brother taking the study could meet up with the Student at MickyDees for a Coffee and Burgers but couldn't meet up with him in person at his residence. Like so many of the Policies....confusing and non sensical.
4JahandChrist
Do you think that they are not encouraging face to face witnessing or BS because we might get into discussions that might reveal what’s happening in the organization?
 

4JahandChrist

Well-known member
4JahandChrist
Do you think that they are not encouraging face to face witnessing or BS because we might get into discussions that might reveal what’s happening in the organization?
Based on the Brothers I have spoken to that are active in the Truth they all seem to be fully in with the official narrative. They seriously believe that Covid is one of the most lethal things to strike humanity and that masks, lockdowns and standing on dots at the Supermarket is containing it.

At the top level I have no idea. Robert suggests that they may have received some kick backs from Big Pharma. That would explain the "only way out is the Jab" mentality.

I think they are also virtue signalling. Again in convos with a couple of MS Brothers they appear to be showing their Covid Compliance as a sign of how conscientious they are and that by wearing masks when no other Churches are that they are the better Christians. Very much like the Pharisees and their ceremonial cleansing.

Also perhaps they don't want to risk any bad publicity in the Media. I actually understand why they stopped cold calling from Door to door. In Australia that would of resulted in considerable backlash and If just one Covid infection was recorded by a JW spreading it to a householder the media would of been all over it like a dirt rash on a Wombat.

But to stop visiting established Bible Studies/ Recreational Vehicles(Return Visits) and the sick just seems nuts to me. Especially since most of the Brothers I know were still going out to Cafes, Restaurants and other recreational activities.

The mantra was almost like "we will take the risk with most things but not with the Ministry".
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Based on the Brothers I have spoken to that are active in the Truth they all seem to be fully in with the official narrative. They seriously believe that Covid is one of the most lethal things to strike humanity and that masks, lockdowns and standing on dots at the Supermarket is containing it.

At the top level I have no idea. Robert suggests that they may have received some kick backs from Big Pharma. That would explain the "only way out is the Jab" mentality.

I think they are also virtue signalling. Again in convos with a couple of MS Brothers they appear to be showing their Covid Compliance as a sign of how conscientious they are and that by wearing masks when no other Churches are that they are the better Christians. Very much like the Pharisees and their ceremonial cleansing.

Also perhaps they don't want to risk any bad publicity in the Media. I actually understand why they stopped cold calling from Door to door. In Australia that would of resulted in considerable backlash and If just one Covid infection was recorded by a JW spreading it to a householder the media would of been all over it like a dirt rash on a Wombat.

But to stop visiting established Bible Studies/ Recreational Vehicles(Return Visits) and the sick just seems nuts to me. Especially since most of the Brothers I know were still going out to Cafes, Restaurants and other recreational activities.

The mantra was almost like "we will take the risk with most things but not with the Ministry".
It’s like the ultimate in ‘gaslighting!’ Yes, virtue signaling, there is no doubt. Also there actions remind me very much of the Pharisees.In fact everything about what the GB is doing is Pharisaic.

I feel like I’m living in an alternate universe with all these changes in the way we’ve been use to for so many years yet practically nobody says a thing! I never could understand why not at least do the public witnessing….

I’ve almost completely drawn away from meetings except most Sundays. No service on Zoom in about 6 months. Are you in the US?
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Actually our minister of health at the time said about people complaining about the contents of the vaccine that you don't know what's in a frikandel either. Oh, the logic of the elite 🤦‍♀️
True, no one knows the contents of a frikandel, but then I didn’t know the contents of the bible either, so its just part of life’s rich tapestry of exploration. I still have lovely memories of Holland, and still use my work clogs! You know Paul H on this site lives in Holland? Very knowledgeable about the bible and would make seeking an explanation of questions in your own language perhaps easier for you?
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
i completely agree with you. and just to expound a bit on what you aptly commented on above: the only difference that i see between the Pharisees of Jesus’s day and the Gov Body of today is the draconian shunning policy (expulsion- as you mentioned) that allows today’s leadership to not just expel a man, not just treat a man as if he were dead, but treat a man as if he never existed.

I often compare this policy to the sword of Damocles, suspended over every JWs head, by a single strand of Stephen Lett’s gray hair.

It’s the elephant in room, it’s the policing policy that every JW lives with that prevents him from cultivating deep bonds with others- for fear of revealing something about his authentic self that is in conflict with the Gov Body’s thinking.

I mean let’s face it, it’s impossible to have your thinking 100% aligned with a body of men who arbitrarily change doctrines and policies for the sole purpose to indemnify the organization. Yet that is what the Gov Body demands of all JWs. correct me if i’m wrong.

Everyone is aware of the harshness of this policy and so there is a threshold or boundary in which every woke JW must predetermine that he will not violate for the sake of avoiding disfellowship.

Does that make sense?

I’m open for correction on all things. I don’t know much at all about the way the Pharisees controlled ordinary Jews back then.
Absolutely so.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
This is simply my current personal leanings on this matter based on my knowledge of scripture. If I need correction or perspective please feel free to chime in.
The scripture that always comes to mind when I'm contemplating the dilemma mentioned is Matt 23: 3 where Jesus is giving direction to the disciples regarding the hypocrites (Scribes and Pharisees) and how they should deal with them. He states the following: "Therefore, all the things they tell you, do and observe, but do not do according to their deeds, for they say but they do not practice what they say."
In principle we are in a similar position dealing with the GB and their unscriptural rules and traditions are we not? So Jesus guidance fits the bill.
We do what we can to comply as did the disciples and where they go beyond Jehovah's regulations we obey God as ruler rather than men until correction is made by Jesus (head of the congregation).
If we are expelled from the Synagogue (congregation) for standing firm, so be it.
Personally I no longer feel that it's my responsibility to warn any JWs about the GB deviations. We are all personally responsible to stay alert and keep on the watch. This would be especially true in regards to corruption from within. I really think Jehovah is allowing this to take place as a test of personal loyalty. This is why we are not having much success "waking up" brothers. Their own conscience has to recognize the wrongdoing and nudge them to action.
Absolutely so. I think your right about the truth being for each and every one of us to find it for ourselves. The test for our heart condition cannot be paid by anyone else can it? And yes, it probably is why we have so little success in helping others and ultimately, no one can make the change for them. It must come from within. But does that come under the ethos of leaving the 99 other sheep to search for the one that is lost? Perhaps that applies to one being corrected in their knowledge or thinking, having already come to know of the truth?
 

4JahandChrist

Well-known member
It’s like the ultimate in ‘gaslighting!’ Yes, virtue signaling, there is no doubt. Also there actions remind me very much of the Pharisees.In fact everything about what the GB is doing is Pharisaic.

I feel like I’m living in an alternate universe with all these changes in the way we’ve been use to for so many years yet practically nobody says a thing! I never could understand why not at least do the public witnessing….

I’ve almost completely drawn away from meetings except most Sundays. No service on Zoom in about 6 months. Are you in the US?
I'm in Prison Camp Australia. A few freedoms back at last but I'm not holding my breath.

Definitely an alternate reality. From memory you lost your spouse? If so, that mixed up with the Covid Debacle must have been so very hard. I hope things are ok. Isolation is no picnic when you are grieving. 🥺
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
I'm in Prison Camp Australia. A few freedoms back at last but I'm not holding my breath.

Definitely an alternate reality. From memory you lost your spouse? If so, that mixed up with the Covid Debacle must have been so very hard. I hope things are ok. Isolation is no picnic when you are grieving. 🥺
@4JahandChrist Are you really in in a prison camp in Australia? And you’re able to communicate via internet?

Yes, unfortunately I lost my spouse almost 7 months ago and it’s been very difficult trying to cope. All of my close family non witnesses live out of town, although not far. Out of 4 children, the only one who’s a witness and lives closest is married to an elder but doesn’t want to have anything to do with me anymore because I asked some questions concerning the GB and their reaction to the vaccine. My daughter and I use to be so close, now she’s like a different person! It’s hard to take all of this in and be totally on my own!

And you’re right, isolation is no picnic when I’m grieving…but I can honestly say that coming on this forum and reading everyone’s comments has helped me to be lifted up. I’m gradually trying to taper off meetings…the elders do call and I’ve been sent emails requesting me to meet with them. I haven’t responded. I’m trying to be ‘discreet’ no pun intended. I never, in my wildest dreams would’ve thought I’d be going through this a year ago!

I can only pray to Jehovah, and I know that he’s with me and helping me to get through this. He’s truly the God of all comfort and he is also ‘ greater than our hearts and knows all things.’ 🥲
 
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