What do demons or angels look like?

Jahrule

Well-known member
I know spirits are invisible to us, but I'm sure that doesn't mean they can't see each other. So they likely look like something. I imagine since we are made in God's image, that we all kinda have a similar appearance. Found an interesting video on the subject. It's worth checking out.

 

kirmmy

Well-known member
Eze 28:11-19

You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.[a]
Your settings and mountings[b] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.

Sounds like Satan was a pretty good looking spirit. I imagine it's the same for his pals and all angels really.

There is also an interesting scripture in Revelations that says "a man's measure the same as an angel's" Rev 21:17.

"He also measured its wall, 144 cubits by human measurement, which is also an angel’s measurement." ESV

This could be indicative of the proportions of angelic bodies but some translations put it differently

"Then he measured the walls and found them to be 216 feet thick (according to the human standard used by the angel)." NLT
 

PJ54

Well-known member
This have me wonder if a visitation from aliens could be considered a false Parousia since Project Blue Beam is considered to be used. I saw this video & it had me wonder about this.

 

The God Pill

Well-known member
Eze 28:11-19

You were in Eden,
the garden of God;
every precious stone adorned you:
carnelian, chrysolite and emerald,
topaz, onyx and jasper,
lapis lazuli, turquoise and beryl.[a]
Your settings and mountings[b] were made of gold;
on the day you were created they were prepared.
14 You were anointed as a guardian cherub,
for so I ordained you.

Sounds like Satan was a pretty good looking spirit. I imagine it's the same for his pals and all angels really.

There is also an interesting scripture in Revelations that says "a man's measure the same as an angel's" Rev 21:17.

"He also measured its wall, 144 cubits by human measurement, which is also an angel’s measurement." ESV

This could be indicative of the proportions of angelic bodies but some translations put it differently

"Then he measured the walls and found them to be 216 feet thick (according to the human standard used by the angel)." NLT


I've read that there's division among scholars whether Ezekiel 28 is about Adam or Satan. There's considerable variation between the masoretic and septuagint I don't feel ready to promote either position but I'll share the lxx version of part of the chapter

11 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation for the prince of Tyre, and say to him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou art a seal of resemblance, and crown of beauty.
13 Thou wast in the delight of the paradise of God; thou hast bound upon thee every precious stone, the sardius, and topaz, and emerald, and carbuncle, and sapphire, and jasper, and silver, and gold, and ligure, and agate, and amethyst, and chrysolite, and beryl, and onyx: and thou hast filled thy treasures and thy stores in thee with gold.
14 From the day that thou wast created thou with the cherub: I set thee on the holy mount of God; thou wast in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast faultless in thy days, from the day that thou wast created, until iniquity was found in thee.
16 Of the abundance of thy merchandise thou hast filled thy storehouses with iniquity, and hast sinned: therefore thou hast been cast down wounded from the mount of God, and the cherub has brought thee out of the midst of the stones of fire.

With the cherub and brought out of the garden by the cherub rather than being the cherub and 12 gems are listed rather than 9 same number as the high priest breastplate. The garden of eden according to jubilees in preflood times was part of one of Jehovah's four holy mountains. The chapter could be referring to Tyre, Turkey or Tsor meaning stone depending on the vowels Barker thinks the stones of fire can be translated as or might mean sons of fire the bible refers to Jehovah as a consuming fire could've been a way of saying he was amidst angels. In one of the targums the devil saying you will be like elohim to eve is rendered like great angels implying they were a common sight in Eden. Of course even if this were describing Adam in unfallen radiant garments of light priest state it'd still be beneath the angels appearance naturally.
 

xrt469

Well-known member
Exodus 33:20 seems to indicate that the human vision is fully incompatible with whatever the spirit realm is. The manifestation of spirit creatures within the physical universe is likely more like humans in the Matrix than we would like to believe. The physical universe itself may be more like a simulation than we are comfortable admitting.

That would explain the strange way John had to describe what he saw in heaven. Even in a vision meant for a human, trying to translate the spirit realm into a human equivalent was no simple task. The vision of the throne in Revelation 4 is almost impossible for me to imagine just based on the description.

When Paul saw the glorified Jesus, it basically blinded him. Perhaps spirit creatures exist more as a form of energy. That would explain their lack of decay even after disobedience. Humans, on the other hand, began to decay almost immediately after they withdrew from Jehovah.

Pure speculation, of course.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
This have me wonder if a visitation from aliens could be considered a false Parousia since Project Blue Beam is considered to be used. I saw this video & it had me wonder about this.

That video PJ...you ever play the game Deus Ex? I think that woman lives in that universe. :)

I've read that there's division among scholars whether Ezekiel 28 is about Adam or Satan. There's considerable variation between the masoretic and septuagint I don't feel ready to promote either position but I'll share the lxx version of part of the chapter

11 And the word of the Lord came to me, saying,
12 Son of man, take up a lamentation for the prince of Tyre, and say to him, Thus saith the Lord God; Thou art a seal of resemblance, and crown of beauty.
13 Thou wast in the delight of the paradise of God; thou hast bound upon thee every precious stone, the sardius, and topaz, and emerald, and carbuncle, and sapphire, and jasper, and silver, and gold, and ligure, and agate, and amethyst, and chrysolite, and beryl, and onyx: and thou hast filled thy treasures and thy stores in thee with gold.
14 From the day that thou wast created thou with the cherub: I set thee on the holy mount of God; thou wast in the midst of the stones of fire.
15 Thou wast faultless in thy days, from the day that thou wast created, until iniquity was found in thee.
16 Of the abundance of thy merchandise thou hast filled thy storehouses with iniquity, and hast sinned: therefore thou hast been cast down wounded from the mount of God, and the cherub has brought thee out of the midst of the stones of fire.

With the cherub and brought out of the garden by the cherub rather than being the cherub and 12 gems are listed rather than 9 same number as the high priest breastplate. The garden of eden according to jubilees in preflood times was part of one of Jehovah's four holy mountains. The chapter could be referring to Tyre, Turkey or Tsor meaning stone depending on the vowels Barker thinks the stones of fire can be translated as or might mean sons of fire the bible refers to Jehovah as a consuming fire could've been a way of saying he was amidst angels. In one of the targums the devil saying you will be like elohim to eve is rendered like great angels implying they were a common sight in Eden. Of course even if this were describing Adam in unfallen radiant garments of light priest state it'd still be beneath the angels appearance naturally.
Sure, it's possible. One thing for sure, it ain't the "king of Tyre"...:)

When Paul saw the glorified Jesus, it basically blinded him.
True, but what if Paul was wearing a welder's glass. Perhaps he could have made out form and line. Like you said though that's pure speculation.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
I've heard of that game. The last console I owned was a PS2. If my financial situation permitted then I'd check into the new ones.
I've only played deus ex mankind divided but it was pretty good. I'm with you it's not getting any easier to catch up with consoles.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
I know spirits are invisible to us, but I'm sure that doesn't mean they can't see each other. So they likely look like something. I imagine since we are made in God's image, that we all kinda have a similar appearance. Found an interesting video on the subject. It's worth checking out.

I remember telling my mother and sister over the years that story of baby Noah glowing makes you wonder if Moses was like that as given he was divinely beautiful as a baby. John Milton seems to have agreed with this video on the bread of angels etc. In paradise lost heaven is depicted in a very quasi physical way like that.
 

Nomex

Well-known member
When Paul saw the glorified Jesus, it basically blinded him. Perhaps spirit creatures exist more as a form of energy.
You are exactly right. Think of it this way, Jehovah and Jesus, created the sun and stars. Perpetual nuclear explosions. Think of the infinite power they have to be able to create that. Then think what kind of "body" they would have. I imagine they exists in a similar form as the sun and stars. They are spherical. They do not need arms and legs, they exists as energy, and create their own means for physical observations. Look at everything in creation that is spherical. It's way beyond our comprehension and understanding.
 

xrt469

Well-known member
You are exactly right. Think of it this way, Jehovah and Jesus, created the sun and stars. Perpetual nuclear explosions. Think of the infinite power they have to be able to create that. Then think what kind of "body" they would have. I imagine they exists in a similar form as the sun and stars. They are spherical. They do not need arms and legs, they exists as energy, and create their own means for physical observations. Look at everything in creation that is spherical. It's way beyond our comprehension and understanding.
At one point I imagined that the physical universe is fully a simulation in the greatest computer in existence: Jehovah's mind. The reason we're retained in his memory at death is that's where we have always existed. And then, I imagined that humans are actually billions of years old because Jehovah stops the simulation periodically to make adjustments to the programming. From our perspective, everything is paused and so we have no knowledge of the passage of "real time" which only exists in the spirit realm. Time within the simulation is also paused. When the adjustments are complete, the program resumes.

After thinking about that, I got a feeling of dread because the concept started feeling like that might be real. So I stopped thinking about it so I wouldn't have an aneurysm or something. I took the blue pill.

But really, if the physical world is a simulation, how would you prove or disprove it? 😱🤪:unsure:

EDIT: I'm going to answer my own question in case someone reads this and doesn't catch my attempt at geeky humor. The simple answer is Galatians 1:1 and Hebrews 9:11. Jesus's sacrifice would be meaningless had he only sacrificed a "virtual" or "simulated" life. There had to be something tangible that was given up for it to have value.
 
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PJ54

Well-known member
At one point I imagined that the physical universe is fully a simulation in the greatest computer in existence: Jehovah's mind. The reason we're retained in his memory at death is that's where we have always existed. And then, I imagined that humans are actually billions of years old because Jehovah stops the simulation periodically to make adjustments to the programming. From our perspective, everything is paused and so we have no knowledge of the passage of "real time" which only exists in the spirit realm. Time within the simulation is also paused. When the adjustments are complete, the program resumes.

After thinking about that, I got a feeling of dread because the concept started feeling like that might be real. So I stopped thinking about it so I wouldn't have an aneurysm or something. I took the blue pill.

But really, if the physical world is a simulation, how would you prove or disprove it? 😱🤪:unsure:

EDIT: I'm going to answer my own question in case someone reads this and doesn't catch my attempt at geeky humor. The simple answer is Galatians 1:1 and Hebrews 9:11. Jesus's sacrifice would be meaningless had he only sacrificed a "virtual" or "simulated" life. There had to be something tangible that was given up for it to have value.
Reality is mathematical in nature when you think about it. And that fear you have is what we call apeirophobia.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
You are exactly right. Think of it this way, Jehovah and Jesus, created the sun and stars. Perpetual nuclear explosions. Think of the infinite power they have to be able to create that. Then think what kind of "body" they would have. I imagine they exists in a similar form as the sun and stars. They are spherical. They do not need arms and legs, they exists as energy, and create their own means for physical observations. Look at everything in creation that is spherical. It's way beyond our comprehension and understanding.
I agree a fair bit for years I've seen Jehovah as spherical a singularity that via the begetting worked out a means to externalize his energy. Perhaps when heavenly beings see God enthroned it's a projected hologram. I don't have an opinion on the angels of course either way besides the Ophanim that are described as spherical but in Plato's Timaeus when the creation of the lesser gods by the demiurge is described it claims they were made spherical.
 

Jah-son

Well-known member
My 2 cents on the nature of spirit creatures:

IMHO Most likely spirit creatures are beings of high energy light. They likely exist in the frequency above visable light on the electromagnetic spectrum. Anything higher than gamma rays would manifest into the material realm becoming hydrogen (the basic building block of the material universe) which is what we find being emitted from the galactic jets of a black hole (high energy light being compressed into matter). I hypothesize that if one could "see" into this particular frequency of the spectrum, spirit creatures inhabiting the general area could be detected. I believe that some animals can detect spirit creatures in some fashion (ie Balam's donkey). Although they may have ways of evading detection just as we do. As far as their appearance, I tend to agree with the humanoid type structure. My reasoning for this is that the Nephilim were hybrid Angel / human. They still had a humanoid form / appearance although distorted in size and power. Also all of the materialized Angels mentioned in scripture had a humanoid appearance. Although, these may have just been due to a choice by the Angel as to which form they chose to materialize though. I suppose they could choose to materialize into any form within the laws of the material universe.
Obviously we don't have the capacity to visualize the spirit realm but I believe in our minds eye, we can probably come close. Dream states, psychedelic or meditative states would probably be the closest we could get to experiencing higher dimensions as humans. I wouldn't doubt if we reach some kind of natural state where we can detect and interact with our spirit brothers in the future when it's safe to do so.
Screenshot_20220728-083259_Chrome.jpg
 

Zane

Active member
Asking what a spirit creature looks like is like asking what fear sounds like, or what sunshine tastes like.
Emotions are not sound waves so they do not effect the ear drum, and our taste buds do not register light.
Nor do our eyes see the spirit realm.
They can, on the other hand, take a physical form of their choice, therefore they would be deciding on what we see.

There had to be something tangible that was given up for it to have value.

I agree, but what tangible thing did he give up?
In his own terms, he merely slept for about 40 hours. (Mt 9:24; Mr 5:39; Lu 8:52)
And he didn't give up his life, since he is alive and well in heaven.
And don't say that he gave up his earthly existence, because he moved on to a superior form in a superior place.
It would be like claiming that giving up your old cheap unreliable car for a new expensive car was a sacrifice. (He 11:40; Ro 8:23; 2Co 5:2)

:)
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
My 2 cents on the nature of spirit creatures:

IMHO Most likely spirit creatures are beings of high energy light. They likely exist in the frequency above visable light on the electromagnetic spectrum. Anything higher than gamma rays would manifest into the material realm becoming hydrogen (the basic building block of the material universe) which is what we find being emitted from the galactic jets of a black hole (high energy light being compressed into matter). I hypothesize that if one could "see" into this particular frequency of the spectrum, spirit creatures inhabiting the general area could be detected. I believe that some animals can detect spirit creatures in some fashion (ie Balam's donkey). Although they may have ways of evading detection just as we do. As far as their appearance, I tend to agree with the humanoid type structure. My reasoning for this is that the Nephilim were hybrid Angel / human. They still had a humanoid form / appearance although distorted in size and power. Also all of the materialized Angels mentioned in scripture had a humanoid appearance. Although, these may have just been due to a choice by the Angel as to which form they chose to materialize though. I suppose they could choose to materialize into any form within the laws of the material universe.
Obviously we don't have the capacity to visualize the spirit realm but I believe in our minds eye, we can probably come close. Dream states, psychedelic or meditative states would probably be the closest we could get to experiencing higher dimensions as humans. I wouldn't doubt if we reach some kind of natural state where we can detect and interact with our spirit brothers in the future when it's safe to do so.
View attachment 1564
My 2 cents on the nature of spirit creatures:

IMHO Most likely spirit creatures are beings of high energy light. They likely exist in the frequency above visable light on the electromagnetic spectrum. Anything higher than gamma rays would manifest into the material realm becoming hydrogen (the basic building block of the material universe) which is what we find being emitted from the galactic jets of a black hole (high energy light being compressed into matter). I hypothesize that if one could "see" into this particular frequency of the spectrum, spirit creatures inhabiting the general area could be detected. I believe that some animals can detect spirit creatures in some fashion (ie Balam's donkey). Although they may have ways of evading detection just as we do. As far as their appearance, I tend to agree with the humanoid type structure. My reasoning for this is that the Nephilim were hybrid Angel / human. They still had a humanoid form / appearance although distorted in size and power. Also all of the materialized Angels mentioned in scripture had a humanoid appearance. Although, these may have just been due to a choice by the Angel as to which form they chose to materialize though. I suppose they could choose to materialize into any form within the laws of the material universe.
Obviously we don't have the capacity to visualize the spirit realm but I believe in our minds eye, we can probably come close. Dream states, psychedelic or meditative states would probably be the closest we could get to experiencing higher dimensions as humans. I wouldn't doubt if we reach some kind of natural state where we can detect and interact with our spirit brothers in the future when it's safe to do so.
View attachment 1564
Rev18:2 refers to them as hated birds!?
 

xrt469

Well-known member
Asking what a spirit creature looks like is like asking what fear sounds like, or what sunshine tastes like.
Emotions are not sound waves so they do not effect the ear drum, and our taste buds do not register light.
Nor do our eyes see the spirit realm.
They can, on the other hand, take a physical form of their choice, therefore they would be deciding on what we see.



I agree, but what tangible thing did he give up?
In his own terms, he merely slept for about 40 hours. (Mt 9:24; Mr 5:39; Lu 8:52)
And he didn't give up his life, since he is alive and well in heaven.
And don't say that he gave up his earthly existence, because he moved on to a superior form in a superior place.
It would be like claiming that giving up your old cheap unreliable car for a new expensive car was a sacrifice. (He 11:40; Ro 8:23; 2Co 5:2)

:)
I have given a lot of thought recently to the concepts of life and death. What they mean and what free will means. I have some interesting ideas floating around in my head that may or may not be relevant.

To the point of your question, which is valid, what Jesus gave up was a life with endless possibilities. A life with meaning and experiences unique to itself. Jesus was the only perfect man on earth. There is no indication he would have died of "natural" causes. Had he steered clear of the ruling powers, might he still be alive today? With his wisdom and knowledge, what could he be today? We will not know because he gave all of that up.

Jesus' life was different from the angels that materialized bodies prior to the flood. They were engaged in some sort of experience while on earth but their experience differed in that they were not natural-born humans. They weren't actual flesh and blood. They created biological automatons and imbued them with procreative genetic garbage that resulted in the Nephilim (and possibly human-animal hybrids). They were not birthed from a human woman as Jesus was. So the experience was not the same. Also, they returned to the spirit realm under their own power. Jesus had to rely completely on Jehovah's ability to restore him to his spirit-self with everything exactly as it was before. That was part of the journey.

So the sacrifice is not the automobile in your illustration, it's the journey. His journey continues but elsewhere, with a different destination, and likely with less freedom.

Which brings me to the concept of free will that I have been pondering. When I consider what the fallen angels have given up, I think, "why?" The answer is, free will. They could not possibly believe that the outcome of their disobedience will result in anything other than eternal destruction. It is basically "suicide by God" (sort of like the phrase "suicide by cop"). They were basically done living whatever their life was before. Whatever tasks they were given or would ever have. They were done. So why not go out with a bang? One last big hurrah to end it all. Whatever they want to do until the ride stops and they're dead.

Where I think this concept becomes interesting is with Jesus and the 144,000. They are basically giving up the option of "suicide by God". They will never die. Period. So whatever assignments they receive for all eternity it will be their duty to perform. No exceptions. No "punching out". Basically, a sort of slavery from a certain perspective.

Please don't misunderstand. I would assume whatever role and assignment they get will be amazing, fulfilling, and awesome. However, I would also expect that to be true of the angels. Yet here we are. They decided to punch out via suicide by God. Both angels and humans will always have the option to disobey God and end their life. Anytime and for any dumb reason, just like Adam and Eve, we can punch out.

So what does all of the above mean? Paradise is no guarantee of happiness. The angels dwell in the presence of God and yet decided they were done with their journey. No chemical imbalance could explain it away. No inherited imperfection. They simply chose to use their free will to end it all. There will be a large number of people at the end of the thousand years that will also choose suicide by God (Revelation 20:8). I have no idea why but they will. Despite living in what will be a physical paradise by then, they will have no desire to live it any longer.

I guess Solomon really nailed it in Ecclesiastes 2. Enjoy the moments we have now because of our hard work and friendships. Love others and help make their journey in life awesome. Learn to love Jehovah and explore his majesty. If we focus only on ourselves and what we want, well, suicide by God is always a plan B.
 

Zane

Active member
So the sacrifice is not the automobile in your illustration, it's the journey. His journey continues but elsewhere, with a different destination,
If that is the case then we make sacrifices all of the time, because whatever choice you make leads you on a different journey.
Do you turn left, or turn right?
If you turn left are you sacrificing what was to the right?
No. Because what would have been to the right never existed, and if something does not exist it can not be sacrificed.

In Jesus' case, it was supposed to be his life (his journey) that was sacrificed, not a potential journey.
Otherwise Jehovah accepted an abstract as a propitiatory sacrifice.

If that was a sacrifice that Jehovah accepted, then Jesus made thousands of such sacrifices because every decision he made every day of his human life was a sacrifice of a potential journey that he did not take.

No, we all have but one journey, and it is filled with decisions.
And death is the end of the journey.
But current teaching is that Jesus' journey did not end.
As you say, "his journey continues but elsewhere."

So the question remains: What sacrifice did Jesus make?

:)
 
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