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Joe MacTeeg
Guest
I'm a non-denomination Christian. Do not believe in Trinity, immortal soul, or hellfire. Growing more as a Christian since I tossed the Watchtower glasses.
Jesus Name - Proof of the GB's Deceptive Teaching of the Faithful Slave
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MickHewitt
Well-known member
No, but the soil of God's congregation produces wheat as well as weeds. And it's this congregation that this sacred secret has been hidden through ages in God and is explained through the congregation. Ephesians 3:9,10.
It is not slanderous to simply point out one's religious persuasion. You deride Jehovah's Witnesses as a false religious cult and me as a false prophet. When I apply your standards to you, you whine that I am slandering you. You are a whiner. I called you out and you can't handle it. You are not honest enough to simply admit where your "research" is coming from. The thing is, you can't fool me.
BARNABY THE DOG.
Well-known member
I don’t really suppose Russell or anyone else in watchtower was or even is inspired. Jehovah would not have any truck with people who lie, but he leaves the door open for people to both succeed in their pursuits and needs and also to condemn themselves. That is what we see here. All of watchtower glitterati have chosen that route. They are drawn out by their own desires and that is their inspiration - to “go further in the watchtower” as we were encouraged. You have a point about witnesses and ourselves being seen by others as weak and foolish enough without the added burden of shaming ourselves in making or believing in predictions about the future. Jehovah uses such people to amplify the contrast in His values from those of the world and their leaders - also those of his own who exalt themselves amongst His people. So Robert certainly has a point worthy of note as well. Jehovah’s attributes are equally implied of all who make claims in His name. The GB have forgotten that. We have always been ridiculed either way. It’s a good thing not to think more of ourselves than is necessary. I don’t let these things bother me. It’s enough to just take one day at a time and concentrate on the issues that are important to get correct - namely ourselves in our relationships and faith. If we look for or demand accuracy in others, then we must ensure we ourselves are correct in all things. Personally, I like to leave as big a gap as is possible to allow myself to be wrong and not to be hauled over the coals for every utterance I make.
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Joe MacTeeg
Guest
The field of the wheat and weeds, is "the world." That's what Jesus said, not "God's congregation." The "sacred secret" was that both Jews and Gentiles would make up the seed, joint heirs, "the congregation" of Christ. (Not the Watchtower as an organization.)
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AnnaNana
Guest
The Memorial instituted by Christ was a simple meal. Any poor, uneducated person could manage to take part. Jesus didn't make it complicated.
It's the same today. Jehovah didn't make it difficult to identify the organization he is using. He allows His Name to reside there.
Just like the ancient organization had flaws, so today. There was apostasy then. There is today. Just like the ancient organization was disciplined by the nations per Jehovah's permission, so today it will happen again.
Korah Dathan and Abiram were wicked lawless ones who were executed by Jehovah. And yet they are said to be in "Sheol".
The lawless ones today on the governing body belong to Jesus. He purchased them with his blood, just like he purchased the rest of us. All things belong to Jesus. He will be the one to choose whether or not to resurrect somebody to heaven or earth.
Hosea was told to marry an adulterous wife. Why?
He served as an illustration for Jehovah.
Jehovah took back ancient Israel when she prostituted herself to the nations. Eventually she passed the point of no return, but a faithful remnant became part of the new arrangement, the Christian congregation.
Today, the Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses has been unfaithful as an organization. But Jehovah doesn't just thrown her away. He sees the faithful individuals in the organization.
If Jehovah can heal the blind and the deaf and the lame, don't you think He can heal the organization?
If Jehovah can raise the dead, don't you think He can bring the organization back to life spiritually?
Nothing is impossible for Jehovah.
When Jehovah said to Moses, "Let me destroy them and make you into a mighty nation," Jehovah was allowing Moses to show what was in his heart. How did Moses reply? "Yes! Bring it down, shatter them, kill them!" No way! Moses begged Jehovah to save what was salvageable from them. Jehovah did execute individual wrongdoers, but He did not throwaway His covenant with Israel.
Jehovah does not throw people away. That's what Satan does.
Jehovah is Loyal. There are many, many faithful sheep in the organization who are being mislead and Jehovah promises to fix things. Ezekiel 34 is clear. The bad shepherds will be removed. The scattered sheep will be gathered in and comforted. Jehovah will get glory for himself by means of saving His Name People.
Praise Jah.
It's the same today. Jehovah didn't make it difficult to identify the organization he is using. He allows His Name to reside there.
Just like the ancient organization had flaws, so today. There was apostasy then. There is today. Just like the ancient organization was disciplined by the nations per Jehovah's permission, so today it will happen again.
Korah Dathan and Abiram were wicked lawless ones who were executed by Jehovah. And yet they are said to be in "Sheol".
The lawless ones today on the governing body belong to Jesus. He purchased them with his blood, just like he purchased the rest of us. All things belong to Jesus. He will be the one to choose whether or not to resurrect somebody to heaven or earth.
Hosea was told to marry an adulterous wife. Why?
He served as an illustration for Jehovah.
Jehovah took back ancient Israel when she prostituted herself to the nations. Eventually she passed the point of no return, but a faithful remnant became part of the new arrangement, the Christian congregation.
Today, the Christian congregation of Jehovah's Witnesses has been unfaithful as an organization. But Jehovah doesn't just thrown her away. He sees the faithful individuals in the organization.
If Jehovah can heal the blind and the deaf and the lame, don't you think He can heal the organization?
If Jehovah can raise the dead, don't you think He can bring the organization back to life spiritually?
Nothing is impossible for Jehovah.
When Jehovah said to Moses, "Let me destroy them and make you into a mighty nation," Jehovah was allowing Moses to show what was in his heart. How did Moses reply? "Yes! Bring it down, shatter them, kill them!" No way! Moses begged Jehovah to save what was salvageable from them. Jehovah did execute individual wrongdoers, but He did not throwaway His covenant with Israel.
Jehovah does not throw people away. That's what Satan does.
Jehovah is Loyal. There are many, many faithful sheep in the organization who are being mislead and Jehovah promises to fix things. Ezekiel 34 is clear. The bad shepherds will be removed. The scattered sheep will be gathered in and comforted. Jehovah will get glory for himself by means of saving His Name People.
Praise Jah.
Joe Mac. You are a lying conman. When Jesus sends out his angels they will remove Satan's minions from Christ's Kingdom, his congregation.
BARNABY THE DOG.
Well-known member
I read quite a bit of the Ray Franz novel. He came out of it all as someone who could see the falsity within watchtower but like many such ones, did not have the appreciation for Jehovah to then seek Jehovah whilst He still may be found. It reminded me very much of a politician that gets upset with the dishonesty in his party and so exposes it and goes off to found his own (dishonest) political party. Frying pan into the pot scenario.
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Joe MacTeeg
Guest
Where did I call the Watchtower a cult? I read Ray Franz's books. They were very good. But, as I have repeatedly posted, I read all of Russell's and Rutherford's books personally. Over 14,000 pages. In date order. My conclusions are based on that firsthand knowledge. I'm not whining. I can handle whatever you are dishing out. I don't mind being associated with Ray. He was a real Christian and a gentleman. But my understandings are my own.
I read your book as well. You write well. And some parts I agree with. Your chapter on the UN was well done. I just don't agree with your theology, because it is based on the premise that the Watchtower was chosen by God as "his organization."
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Joe MacTeeg
Guest
"In response he said: “The sower of the fine seed is the Son of man; the field is the world. As for the fine seed, these are the sons of the Kingdom, but the weeds are the sons of the wicked one."" (Mt. 13)
You are actually trying to con me? Quote the rest of the parable. You can't. You know it will expose you as the liar that you are.
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Joe MacTeeg
Guest
Ray Franz remained a faithful Christian till his death. You must not have read his works completely or carefully, and don't know his life. The fact is he avoided carefully having others follow him. He never 'founded his own party.' That is a complete mischaracterization of the man and his life.
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Joe MacTeeg
Guest
I know the parable. Be nice.
Ha, ha. I knew I could smoke you out. Goodbye Joe Mac.
BARNABY THE DOG.
Well-known member
I did not say he founded his own party, I said it was “like” that in that he realise the full implications. Few do. He could have looked for Jehovah, but it appears that back then, there was no one to help him. I’m sure Jehovah will remember him, just as he does every other sparrow that falls to earth. Joe, you appear to be in a mission to be correct in your thinking. It cannot be done. No one can. We cannot know it all, because it is not about being right in ll things, but in being faithful to the best of our ability. Who or what Ray was is totally irrelevant to the issue. Jesus was the only perfect man to walk the earth after Adam.
Back when Bill Bowen and Barbara Anderson were in the news exposing the Watchtower's pedophile problem Bowen got in contact with Ray Franz, who reportedly told Bowen that the WT did not have a pedophile problem. I actually talked with Bill on the phone once. So, here was a guy who was on the Governing Body in the 1970s when they formulated their child abuse policy. When he left the WT and wrote his books he had the platform and the audience to really expose an evil that has caused lasting harm to thousands of victims. He didn't. That should tell you all you need to know about Franz.
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barry
Well-known member
Hi Joe,
If the Watchtower was not chosen, which religion/organization would currently represent Gods people?
All the (minor) prophets point to Gods people straying away. And Jesus also made it clear that the road leading to life is narrow and not easy to find.
There should be a group on earth that once started doing God's will and would no longer be doing that when Jesus comes to inspect.
So if it's not JW's I'm curious which group it would be?
Joe has been removed
BARNABY THE DOG.
Well-known member
I got the impression that there was a lot lacking in his reasoning. I was amazed when I first read his work. It alerted me to the fact that watchtower was not what I had been told it was, or believed it was. At that time in my life it was a huge weight off my shoulders to know that I was not alone and that there were others. As my knowledge expanded and I was searching through the “ex-JW” sites that sense of relief started to fade because it led nowhere. Nowhere at all and I found myself staring into a deep black pit. The realisation that all these people had their eyes opened yet did nothing and ceased to search for the truth appalled me. There had to be a God. Creation itself evidenced that. But they just gave up! Then I found a place that was still looking. “Seek Jehovah whilst He still may be found.” It amazed me to find the truth of that scripture and happily it does not amaze me any more, because it should not be amazing. It is a fact.
SusanB
Well-known member
Jehovah will not throw away the anointed ones but he will throw away the organization, which has become an idol.
Isaiah 30:22: “And you will defile the silver overlay of your graven images and the golden plating of your metal statues. You will cast them away like a menstrual cloth and say to them, “Be gone!”
I can see that you have quite a bit of knowledge, although I don’t necessarily agree with your conclusions. Who are you? What is your background?
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