About self defense

D

DavidCJ

Well-known member
So we all know that Jehovah's Witnesses have what could be called a very passive approach to things such as owning weapons and such.

But what is the truth in regards to this matter?

I see their side when it prophesizes that we will be taken away, we will be prosecuted. Which will not be the case if you have guns and are defending against, say an invading UN army. I think I will not. I will run away and hide to the best of my ability and not do obviously stupid things like reveal our location. But if there's no choice I have to leave it to Jehovah.

What about self defense when it comes to your family? Do you own guns to stop them from hurting your loved ones? Never own ammo so it's at best a deterrent? Because we know us humans make mistakes especially in heat of anger. We don't want that mistake to be ending up killing someone, even if it's due to home invasion.

1. If you don't own weapons and just defend yourself and ended up getting seriously hurt or even dead the verdict is: Innocent
2. Same as #1 but you prevailed: Innocent, because it was in self defense
3. You had hurt the invader in some way: I'd guess probably same as #2
4. You ended up killing the invader: ?
 
What the heck is wrong with you today? Why are you being so hostile and offensive? Did I do something? I suggest you stop it right now.

Go kill a "pedo" and stand in front of judges and see how the verdict is. You can stop him without having to end his life. And then call police or enlist the help of neighbours and such. Actually a neutral justice would argue that killing does not equal abduction in terms of equal footing in law.

This is the very reason why vigilante justice is strongly discouraged, and oftentimes condemned. Because people act in emotion, not logic, the latter of which relates to justice. No one said these decisions are easy.

I just want a scriptural opinion without being personally attacked. "Jehovah have mercy on you." What a child's play.
 
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DavidCJ said:
What the heck is wrong with you today? Why are you being so hostile and offensive? Did I do something? I suggest you stop it right now.

Go kill a "pedo" and stand in front of judges and see how the verdict is. You can stop him without having to end his life. And then call police or enlist the help of neighbours and such. Actually a neutral justice would argue that killing does not equal abduction in terms of equal footing in law.

This is the very reason why vigilante justice is strongly discouraged, and oftentimes condemned. Because people act in emotion, not logic, the latter of which relates to justice. No one said these decisions are easy.

I just want a scriptural opinion without being personally attacked. "Jehovah have mercy on you." What a child's play.
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I would have responded to anyone that said the first post here the same. I've had elders that had daughters tell me they wouldn't end one in that situation when interogating me after seeing target paper having been busybodies and looked through the glass of the trunk of my car. Such a man has no business being a parent. Nearly an Entire tribe was wiped out in Israel rightfully over a single sex crime and people defending the perpetrators and it wasn't even a minor. If Jehovah calls lgbtq sons of Belial (The Devil) in the old testament frequently seed of the serpent/offspring of vipers etc how much more pedos but people of this inverse mindset manifested in the low extent would protect their children value the monsters more than their own hypothetical offspring that's well being is their responsibility before God. We are all the sum of our value judgements
 
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DavidCJ said:
So we all know that Jehovah's Witnesses have what could be called a very passive approach to things such as owning weapons and such.

But what is the truth in regards to this matter?

I see their side when it prophesizes that we will be taken away, we will be prosecuted. Which will not be the case if you have guns and are defending against, say an invading UN army. I think I will not. I will run away and hide to the best of my ability and not do obviously stupid things like reveal our location. But if there's no choice I have to leave it to Jehovah.

What about self defense when it comes to your family? Do you own guns to stop them from hurting your loved ones? Never own ammo so it's at best a deterrent? Because we know us humans make mistakes especially in heat of anger. We don't want that mistake to be ending up killing someone, even if it's due to home invasion.

1. If you don't own weapons and just defend yourself and ended up getting seriously hurt or even dead the verdict is: Innocent
2. Same as #1 but you prevailed: Innocent, because it was in self defense
3. You had hurt the invader in some way: I'd guess probably same as #2
4. You ended up killing the invader: ?
Click to expand...
Awesome questions and very relevant. I'm a believer in self defense, I'd rather die on my feet than live on my knees. Ultimately you need to decide for yourself what action you need to take to defend yourself and your family when it comes to the crunch. I live in Australia and we have no access to firearms but if I could I would have firearms in my home for self defense. I'm very uncomfortable with the state police being armed and the citizens of Australia not allowed to be armed. If you live in country that allows you to be armed I would take advantage of that.
 
The God Pill said:
I would have responded to anyone that said the first post here the same. I've had elders that had daughters tell me they wouldn't end one in that situation when interogating me on seeing target paper having been busybodies and looked through the glass of the trunk of my car. Such a man has no business being a parent. Nearly an Entire tribe was wiped out in Israel rightfully over a single sex crime and people defending the perpetrators and it wasn't even a minor. If Jehovah calls lgbtq sons of Belial (The Devil) in the old testament frequently seed of the serpent/offspring of vipers etc how much more pedos but people of this inverse mindset manifested on extent would protect children value the monsters more than their own hypothetical offspring that's well being is their responsibility before God. We are all the sum of our value judgements
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You need to up your medication
 
We can ask ourselves >
What would Jesus do?
Did he give any guidance?

(Luke 6:27- 29)
I say this to all that will listen: ‘Show love for those who oppose you, And do good to all those who hate you.
28 Yes, praise the ones who would curse you, And pray for those who insult you.
29‘If someone should slap you on [the right] cheek, Turn [your left] to him also. (2001 Translation)

Is to what extent we follow this is a matter of conscience?
 
A man has a scriptural responsibility to provide for his family and I interpret that to include physically protecting their life and limb at any cost.
Killing in self defense does not equate to murder although todays bleeding heart liberal legal system ,depending on where you live, will forensically analyze to death (pun intended) every detail of the incident to make such a determination.
On the other hand, If an invading force brought combat operations to the states, it would be foolish to join in on efforts to protect the “homeland” by taking up arms especially so if that force were serving under the flag of the coming eighth king.
We all know , as the old movie line goes, “resistance is futile”.
Back in the nineties I was swept up in such an immature mindset and had amassed quite a collection of what the left wing folks would characterize as “evil black rifles”.
I was totally “Alex Jonesed”. Lol. This was the religion I found after my disenfranchisement from the WT.
After learning the truth about the truth via Robert’s book “Jehovah has become King”, I sold them all off as the optics of owning such a collection wouldnt be good in the event the authorities one day did come jackbooting their way through my front door to have a looky see at what was laying around.
I figured there was no reason to end up in some camp prematurely on account of what may be perceived as a potential threat to the government.
Would rather be identified as one of Christs followers and persecuted for a righteous cause.
These days I just keep a couple “unscary” firearms around for protecting myself and the wife.

“Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever”.1Tim 5:8
 
After just shy of 5 years of karate I'm taking kobudo classes now in addition. I'm hardly unarmed though 😏 though I'm sure during the 7k annointed ones ministry for it's duration before there capture there followers when in proximity would be more well protected than one could be by any human means.
 

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kenmuldoon55 said:
A man has a scriptural responsibility to provide for his family and I interpret that to include physically protecting their life and limb at any cost.
Killing in self defense does not equate to murder although todays bleeding heart liberal legal system ,depending on where you live, will forensically analyze to death (pun intended) every detail of the incident to make such a determination.
On the other hand, If an invading force brought combat operations to the states, it would be foolish to join in on efforts to protect the “homeland” by taking up arms especially so if that force were serving under the flag of the coming eighth king.
We all know , as the old movie line goes, “resistance is futile”.
Back in the nineties I was swept up in such an immature mindset and had amassed quite a collection of what the left wing folks would characterize as “evil black rifles”.
I was totally “Alex Jonesed”. Lol. This was the religion I found after my disenfranchisement from the WT.
After learning the truth about the truth via Robert’s book “Jehovah has become King”, I sold them all off as the optics of owning such a collection wouldnt be good in the event the authorities one day did come jackbooting their way through my front door to have a looky see at what was laying around.
I figured there was no reason to end up in some camp prematurely on account of what may be perceived as a potential threat to the government.
Would rather be identified as one of Christs followers and persecuted for a righteous cause.
These days I just keep a couple “unscary” firearms around for protecting myself and the wife.

“Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever”.1Tim 5:8
Click to expand...
Yes no use for anyone to try to interfere with prophecy given Jehovah's scripted events
 
Some things in the scriptures weren't encouraged, but recognized nonetheless as occurring within the time and unforeseen circumstances of this life. This is not a green light, just recognition of a difficult reality some may face.
Eccles 3:3
1 To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:
2 A time to be born, and a time to die; a time to plant, and a time to pluck up that which is planted;
3 A time to kill, and a time to heal; a time to break down, and a time to build up;
....
 
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DavidCJ said:
So we all know that Jehovah's Witnesses have what could be called a very passive approach to things such as owning weapons and such.

But what is the truth in regards to this matter?

I see their side when it prophesizes that we will be taken away, we will be prosecuted. Which will not be the case if you have guns and are defending against, say an invading UN army. I think I will not. I will run away and hide to the best of my ability and not do obviously stupid things like reveal our location. But if there's no choice I have to leave it to Jehovah.

What about self defense when it comes to your family? Do you own guns to stop them from hurting your loved ones? Never own ammo so it's at best a deterrent? Because we know us humans make mistakes especially in heat of anger. We don't want that mistake to be ending up killing someone, even if it's due to home invasion.

1. If you don't own weapons and just defend yourself and ended up getting seriously hurt or even dead the verdict is: Innocent
2. Same as #1 but you prevailed: Innocent, because it was in self defense
3. You had hurt the invader in some way: I'd guess probably same as #2
4. You ended up killing the invader: ?
Click to expand...
There is no right course of action. It is not possible to predict all the outcomes of a situation. Fortunately, humans come equipped with a fight or flight response. Also, values are computed within pre-set agendas already thought through beforehand, which is why having a gun to hand is a reflection of how far one is prepared to go. Therein lies issues of culture and what is deemed acceptable. And what is deemed acceptable does not necessarily reflect the law of the land or could be argued against as we see all too well in recent fatal ”arrests” by police in America. Thus cultural and self justification in thinking can form “micro-climates” of opinion, such as in the southern states or America, northern Britain, certain areas in France etc. where people group together to form vigilantist groups. Once a life is taken, it can never be brought back and a life lost trying to save another will always be recalled with feelings of guilt by the survivor. It may be the most Nobel of gifts, but brings with it much pain for the survivors and in any event, does not mean that they will survive. Then of course, one has to consider the issues of an attacker who may be delusional or paranoid or both, and a victim himself. So pre-set values are critical both within the situation and living with it after.

Pre-set (pre-considered) values then are critical and therein is the answer. The bible is clear both on murder and the accidental taking of life and the penalty for accidental killing had some pretty serious implications on one’s life also as per the seven cities of refuge. Society today focuses on the ultimate scenario, but it is far more likely that there will be a hundred and one ways out of a situation, and the greater the skill in negotiation and forethought the more likely there will be the best outcome possible. It matters not what the world think of your actions. The world is far more likely to exonerate the victim of a crime, because our lax moral values are tailor made for that. There is no honour involved in exoneration in this world, only relief. This was certainly the point of view that Jesus had in many respects. He asked Jehovah if there was another way open for him according to the will of his father. We too have to look to that other way to avoid condemning ourselves. It is going to be terrifying, as the bible says, but becoming like them to survive is a debatable issue, even in protecting others. At some point we have to have faith that Jehovah will act, but if not, then we are not going to do much about it anyway.
 
Class went well today practiced a bit more tekko and yari for the first time experience with the bo staff definitely helped with the latter.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
There is no right course of action. It is not possible to predict all the outcomes of a situation. Fortunately, humans come equipped with a fight or flight response. Also, values are computed within pre-set agendas already thought through beforehand, which is why having a gun to hand is a reflection of how far one is prepared to go. Therein lies issues of culture and what is deemed acceptable. And what is deemed acceptable does not necessarily reflect the law of the land or could be argued against as we see all too well in recent fatal ”arrests” by police in America. Thus cultural and self justification in thinking can form “micro-climates” of opinion, such as in the southern states or America, northern Britain, certain areas in France etc. where people group together to form vigilantist groups. Once a life is taken, it can never be brought back and a life lost trying to save another will always be recalled with feelings of guilt by the survivor. It may be the most Nobel of gifts, but brings with it much pain for the survivors and in any event, does not mean that they will survive. Then of course, one has to consider the issues of an attacker who may be delusional or paranoid or both, and a victim himself. So pre-set values are critical both within the situation and living with it after.

Pre-set (pre-considered) values then are critical and therein is the answer. The bible is clear both on murder and the accidental taking of life and the penalty for accidental killing had some pretty serious implications on one’s life also as per the seven cities of refuge. Society today focuses on the ultimate scenario, but it is far more likely that there will be a hundred and one ways out of a situation, and the greater the skill in negotiation and forethought the more likely there will be the best outcome possible. It matters not what the world think of your actions. The world is far more likely to exonerate the victim of a crime, because our lax moral values are tailor made for that. There is no honour involved in exoneration in this world, only relief. This was certainly the point of view that Jesus had in many respects. He asked Jehovah if there was another way open for him according to the will of his father. We too have to look to that other way to avoid condemning ourselves. It is going to be terrifying, as the bible says, but becoming like them to survive is a debatable issue, even in protecting others. At some point we have to have faith that Jehovah will act, but if not, then we are not going to do much about it anyway.
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Indeed flexibility in any given situation is key. One size doesn’t fit all in dangerous situations.
If one could just run away without doing any harm,yes indeed the best outcome for all parties concerned.
The ultimate self defense weapon ,I believe and as you nicely state, is reliance on Jehovah
 
The God Pill said:
After just shy of 5 years of karate I'm taking kobudo classes now in addition. I'm hardly unarmed though 😏 though I'm sure during the 7k annointed ones ministry for it's duration before there capture there followers when in proximity would be more well protected than one could be by any human means.
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Is that an Acog sight?
 
kenmuldoon55 said:
Is that an Acog sight?
Click to expand...
I don't believe so. It's a cheap 2.5-10x magnification with laser scope from Amazon. The flash hider is surefire so doubles as a muzzle break for the 20" ar10, bayonet lug extender and foregrips installed and a light is attached on the right side, replaced the standard grip with x2 scorpion
 

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Niobium said:
29‘If someone should slap you on [the right] cheek, Turn [your left] to him also. (2001 Translation)

Is to what extent we follow this is a matter of conscience?
Click to expand...
If it were just a face slap, the answer would be more obvious wouldn't it. Even if I say I would do one thing when the time comes, I don't know for sure until it gets here. What I do know is that if they come down the street I live on with that noise, they may not make it down to my house. There are some cities that I imagine they would avoid as long as they can. Like Memphis and Chicago. In Memphis, they don't have money to rent a lane at a shooting range so they practice on each other.
 
DavidCJ said:
So we all know that Jehovah's Witnesses have what could be called a very passive approach to things such as owning weapons and such.

But what is the truth in regards to this matter?

I see their side when it prophesizes that we will be taken away, we will be prosecuted. Which will not be the case if you have guns and are defending against, say an invading UN army. I think I will not. I will run away and hide to the best of my ability and not do obviously stupid things like reveal our location. But if there's no choice I have to leave it to Jehovah.

What about self defense when it comes to your family? Do you own guns to stop them from hurting your loved ones? Never own ammo so it's at best a deterrent? Because we know us humans make mistakes especially in heat of anger. We don't want that mistake to be ending up killing someone, even if it's due to home invasion.

1. If you don't own weapons and just defend yourself and ended up getting seriously hurt or even dead the verdict is: Innocent
2. Same as #1 but you prevailed: Innocent, because it was in self defense
3. You had hurt the invader in some way: I'd guess probably same as #2
4. You ended up killing the invader: ?
Click to expand...
I'm old school, that means, I see things in the moment, because that is the time in which we live, not yesterdays past nor tomorrow's future.. Jehovah gives us knowledge to choose, right or wrong, even, defend ourselves and our family and our material possessions..Jehovah also allows us the freedoms of the powers that be.. In the United States, the Bill of Rights, you know, to bear arms against enemies both foreign and domestic... What does this mean, more importantly what does it mean to me? It means if someone anyone foreign or domestic, try to kill, injure or take from me my life, or that of my family or my possessions in or outside my home, if I'm able will surely be, dead meat! ..Until such a time those rights are removed, or, I'm being killed for my faith.. let those who would attempt such folly be put on notice, it's a good way to end up a corpse if someone tangles with me or mine... It will be hard for me when the day comes that I must not defend myself... As I'm appted to take some with me.. if I do , like everything else... I'll answer to the almighty for it...
 
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