About self defense

[Jehovahsloyalchild]

Hi JLC, I agree with you on the basic principle of Christianity being that we don’t return evil for evil. However, situations are often not as black and white as one may suppose. For example, you quote Leviticus 24:17 that anyone who takes a human life will SURELY be put to death. That obviously was not absolute, otherwise how can you explain the actions of Jael at Judges 5:26: “With her hand she reached for the tent pin, Her right hand for the workman’s mallet. And she hammered Sisʹe·ra, she crushed his head, And she smashed and pierced his temples.”

Jael did not come under a death sentence. The definition of murder is “The killing of another person without justification or excuse..”

I think all we can do is reason with people and show them the applicable scriptures and they decide for themselves and based on their relationship with Jehovah and his son. I think that if a person is defending children then they may be obligated (and a godly obligation) to do anything in their power to protect them. I know that when I had young children under my care, I would have done anything I could and if that resulted in someone’s death I would not consider that murder. As I said I don’t own guns and I will never own one but that doesn’t mean that I would condemn others who have a gun. They are used for other things and could be used to prevent a crime, such as firing a warning shot. Each one will carry his own load.

That is true however the judges were successive individuals from the tribes of Israel and were chosen by Jehovah to rescue his people from their enemies and to execute justice for them. Jehovah uses his servants to execute his righteous judgements as we all know from many accounts in the scriptures. However this is a post about self defense that is not under the direct order of Jehovah himself. I agree it would be very difficult if not impossible to not defend my children from harm as we know even Jehovah expects us to look after widows and children. It would not be a easy decision and I hope to not have to make it but it goes without saying this life is temporary and the life Jehovah God will give is eternal. I try to take into consideration the scriptures that make mention of how he perceives violence and murder.

 

[Jehovahsloyalchild]

Do you think the world would be better place without weapons? I think most would without fail say yes. Do i think guns will be in Jehovah's kingdom? That is a resounding NO. Of course we will not need them then as wickedness and Satan's influence will not be present. It is up to the individual conscience and reasoning on matters. Self defense is different from committing a act of murder on no premise. There are scriptures that support self defense such as

Exodus 22:2
"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder."

Jesus even told his apostle to carry swords but never mentioned whether they should use them?!

Luke 22
He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was reckoned with transgressors’; for what is written about me has its fulfilment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” 39 And he came out, and went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples followed him.

Jesus clearly did not want violent confrontations as is evident when Peter drew his sword and cut of a mans ear. Right after Jesus healed him.

Difficult to say for sure and will require careful prayer.

 

[The God Pill]

Do you think the world would be better place without weapons? I think most would without fail say yes. Do i think guns will be in Jehovah's kingdom? That is a resounding NO. Of course we will not need them then as wickedness and Satan's influence will not be present. It is up to the individual conscience and reasoning on matters. Self defense is different from committing a act of murder on no premise. There are scriptures that support self defense such as

Exodus 22:2
"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder."

Jesus even told his apostle to carry swords but never mentioned whether they should use them?!

Luke 22
He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was reckoned with transgressors’; for what is written about me has its fulfilment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” 39 And he came out, and went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples followed him.

Jesus clearly did not want violent confrontations as is evident when Peter drew his sword and cut of a mans ear. Right after Jesus healed him.

Trickly subject for sure and one that requires careful prayer.

I don't think there's been anything other than universal consensus here that all weapons will be burned and/or repurposed/modified to non weapon tools after Armageddon. In this system I'm more concerned with men's hearts than men's equipment. Cain's stone didn't murder Abel by itself autonomously and he could have used his bare hands if he choose to

 

[Jehovahsloyalchild]

I don't think there's been anything other than universal consensus here that all weapons will be burned and/or repurposed/modified to non weapon tools after Armageddon. In this system I'm more concerned with men's hearts than men's equipment. Cain's stone didn't murder Abel by itself autonomously and he could have used his bare hands if he choose to

Amen to that. Due to Sinful inclinations and the wicked seeds of Satan are the ones who perpetuate murder. We can use our bare hands to commit murder if the heart is inclined to do so. That inclination and heart condition will not exist in Jehovah's kingdom as he is giving us all a new heart of flesh and removing the heart of stone. We will all go through a dramatic transformation both physically and mentally.

 

[SusanB]

That is true however the judges were successive individuals from the tribes of Israel and were chosen by Jehovah to rescue his people from their enemies and to execute justice for them. Jehovah uses his servants to execute his righteous judgements as we all know from many accounts in the scriptures. However this is a post about self defense that is not under the direct order of Jehovah himself. I agree it would be very difficult if not impossible to not defend my children from harm as we know even Jehovah expects us to look after widows and children. It would not be a easy decision and I hope to not have to make it but it goes without saying this life is temporary and the life Jehovah God will give is eternal. I try to take into consideration the scriptures that make mention of how he perceives violence and murder.

Right and you do realize that Jael was not a judge and no where does it say she was under a direct order from Jehovah. I think its important to look at the definition of what murder is as opposed to self-defense. Also, vengeance has its own definition.

 

[Jehovahsloyalchild]

Right and you do realize that Jael was not a judge and no where does it say she was under a direct order from Jehovah. I think its important to look at the definition of what murder is as opposed to self-defense. Also, vengeance has its own definition.

No she was not a judge but She was a instrument used by Jehovah to execute his judgement. She had his approval to commit this murder and assist in the deliverance of his people. If she did not have Jehovah's approval she would have received judgement by him. She helped to free his people and that would have his blessing

 

[Jehovahsloyalchild]

Right and you do realize that Jael was not a judge and no where does it say she was under a direct order from Jehovah. I think its important to look at the definition of what murder is as opposed to self-defense. Also, vengeance has its own definition.

Also i agree as stated above murder without reason is definitely different than murder with justification however i still think it is a weighty decision and one that must not be taken lightly despite the reasons behind it. I think for myself if i was personally faced with death i would not bother defending myself as i have true faith in the resurrection and Jehovah's coming kingdom. I don't fear death in this system i embrace it especially if it comes to choosing my life or worshipping Satan I will choose death without question.. As for defending my children now that is a entirely different story and would have a very different response from me

 

[TheJehuChariot]

A man has a scriptural responsibility to provide for his family and I interpret that to include physically protecting their life and limb at any cost.
Killing in self defense does not equate to murder although todays bleeding heart liberal legal system ,depending on where you live, will forensically analyze to death (pun intended) every detail of the incident to make such a determination.
On the other hand, If an invading force brought combat operations to the states, it would be foolish to join in on efforts to protect the “homeland” by taking up arms especially so if that force were serving under the flag of the coming eighth king.
We all know , as the old movie line goes, “resistance is futile”.
Back in the nineties I was swept up in such an immature mindset and had amassed quite a collection of what the left wing folks would characterize as “evil black rifles”.
I was totally “Alex Jonesed”. Lol. This was the religion I found after my disenfranchisement from the WT.
After learning the truth about the truth via Robert’s book “Jehovah has become King”, I sold them all off as the optics of owning such a collection wouldnt be good in the event the authorities one day did come jackbooting their way through my front door to have a looky see at what was laying around.
I figured there was no reason to end up in some camp prematurely on account of what may be perceived as a potential threat to the government.
Would rather be identified as one of Christs followers and persecuted for a righteous cause.
These days I just keep a couple “unscary” firearms around for protecting myself and the wife.

“Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever”.1Tim 5:8

Nothing like having a good ole' 12 gauge Mossberg and/or Judge Taurus lying around.... just in case. Besides, a rifle could come in handy for some deer, if Jehovah doesnt mind us switching up from manna during the GT. But that wouldnt apply to the city folk. "Let he whom has intelligence, use discernment" and might I add, "wisdom".

 

[Jehovahsloyalchild]

Great post btw I never thought of defending one self from a biblical standpoint before. Never gave it much thought. I have a different perspective now and believe as long as the murder committed is solely based on self defense then Jehovah would understand the act committed is justified. However when we fully embrace weapons and have the heart condition to murder without cause of course that is perceived very differently. I still think that guns are not something God looks at with adornment. Not that Jehovah really is proud of much that He sees going on in the world and quite frankly either am I. I am not a friend of this system. My future lays in His coming Kingdom. This system is a wrap no real hope or peace exists at all. The end cannot come fast enough.

 

[kenmuldoon55]

Nothing like having a good ole' 12 gauge Mossberg and/or Judge Taurus lying around.... just in case. Besides, a rifle could come in handy for some deer, if Jehovah doesnt mind us switching up from manna during the GT. But that wouldnt apply to the city folk. "Let he whom has intelligence, use discernment" and might I add, "wisdom".

Would definitely sleep well at night with the Taurus Judge nearby.

 

[The God Pill]

Would definitely sleep well at night with the Taurus Judge nearby.

Nothing like a revolver full of shotshells

 

[RTAW]

A man has a scriptural responsibility to provide for his family and I interpret that to include physically protecting their life and limb at any cost.
Killing in self defense does not equate to murder although todays bleeding heart liberal legal system ,depending on where you live, will forensically analyze to death (pun intended) every detail of the incident to make such a determination.
On the other hand, If an invading force brought combat operations to the states, it would be foolish to join in on efforts to protect the “homeland” by taking up arms especially so if that force were serving under the flag of the coming eighth king.
We all know , as the old movie line goes, “resistance is futile”.
Back in the nineties I was swept up in such an immature mindset and had amassed quite a collection of what the left wing folks would characterize as “evil black rifles”.
I was totally “Alex Jonesed”. Lol. This was the religion I found after my disenfranchisement from the WT.
After learning the truth about the truth via Robert’s book “Jehovah has become King”, I sold them all off as the optics of owning such a collection wouldnt be good in the event the authorities one day did come jackbooting their way through my front door to have a looky see at what was laying around.
I figured there was no reason to end up in some camp prematurely on account of what may be perceived as a potential threat to the government.
Would rather be identified as one of Christs followers and persecuted for a righteous cause.
These days I just keep a couple “unscary” firearms around for protecting myself and the wife.

“Anyone who does not provide for their relatives, and especially for their own household, has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever”.1Tim 5:8

Very balanced approach. i see nothing scripturally wrong with this.

 

[RTAW]

Do you think the world would be better place without weapons? I think most would without fail say yes. Do i think guns will be in Jehovah's kingdom? That is a resounding NO. Of course we will not need them then as wickedness and Satan's influence will not be present. It is up to the individual conscience and reasoning on matters. Self defense is different from committing a act of murder on no premise. There are scriptures that support self defense such as

Exodus 22:2
"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder."

Jesus even told his apostle to carry swords but never mentioned whether they should use them?!

Luke 22
He said to them, “But now, let him who has a purse take it, and likewise a bag. And let him who has no sword sell his mantle and buy one. 37 For I tell you that this scripture must be fulfilled in me, ‘And he was reckoned with transgressors’; for what is written about me has its fulfilment.” 38 And they said, “Look, Lord, here are two swords.” And he said to them, “It is enough.” 39 And he came out, and went, as was his custom, to the Mount of Olives; and the disciples followed him.

Jesus clearly did not want violent confrontations as is evident when Peter drew his sword and cut of a mans ear. Right after Jesus healed him.

Difficult to say for sure and will require careful prayer.

Exodus 22:2
"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder."

Jesus even told his apostle to carry swords but never mentioned whether they should use them?!

Very well said, ill go further, as someone who has done firearms instruction for many years and also a believer, I have reasoned to myself with scripture, that taking a life in self defense is ENTIRELY justified within scripture.

Jesus said "learn the "WAYS" of war no longer" The ways of war is different than the WAYS of Self defense if someone were to attack you personally. The ways of war is what nations do, militarily to other nations. A lone attacker is NOT war, it is a single person or small group of thugs attacking you.
Living by the sword and dying by the sword is meaning: is a daily "living" , practitioner, a liturgy if you will, of WAR, of Attacking. This is what soldiers under Governments do, and that practice is wrong for any christian. We don't join in earthly wars.

Self defense is different, and as you pointed out in Exodus, and renders the meaning clear.

Jesus also said "Return your sword TO ITS PLACE"
Jesus was acknowledging that the sword HAD A PLACE by Peters SIDE. even if to say for utility reasons, it still had a place and he carried it with him daily, with no ridicule.
Peter carried a Sword, not a Plowshare

The idea that any "Witness" would sit back or simply ONLY AGREE to using a FRYING PAN to "stop" a pedo in their living room honestly tells me, they are on the WRONG path

 

[kenmuldoon55]

Exodus 22:2
"If a thief is caught in the act of breaking into a house and is struck and killed in the process, the person who killed the thief is not guilty of murder."

Jesus even told his apostle to carry swords but never mentioned whether they should use them?!

Very well said, ill go further, as someone who has done firearms instruction for many years and also a believer, I have reasoned to myself with scripture, that taking a life in self defense is ENTIRELY justified within scripture.

Jesus said "learn the "WAYS" of war no longer" The ways of war is different than the WAYS of Self defense if someone were to attack you personally. The ways of war is what nations do, militarily to other nations. A lone attacker is NOT war, it is a single person or small group of thugs attacking you.
Living by the sword and dying by the sword is meaning: is a daily "living" , practitioner, a liturgy if you will, of WAR, of Attacking. This is what soldiers under Governments do, and that practice is wrong for any christian. We don't join in earthly wars.

Self defense is different, and as you pointed out in Exodus, and renders the meaning clear.

Jesus also said "Return your sword TO ITS PLACE"
Jesus was acknowledging that the sword HAD A PLACE by Peters SIDE. even if to say for utility reasons, it still had a place and he carried it with him daily, with no ridicule.
Peter carried a Sword, not a Plowshare

The idea that any "Witness" would sit back or simply ONLY AGREE to using a FRYING PAN to "stop" a pedo in their living room honestly tells me, they are on the WRONG path

In the days Jesus was on earth, there were threats from wild animals as well as highwaymen when moving about in rural areas which required some form of self defense. With lions and wild dogs running about, I sure wouldn’t want to be without something formidable to ward off such threats.
Had they’ve been available back then, I could definitely see Peter brandishing a side arm and shooting off the man’s ear that night they came for Jesus.

 

[The God Pill]

The kobudo equipment came in but the gi is a size too big because I'm in the weight bracket for size 4 but height of size 3, the Sai pair I ordered are apparently child size 15" when I should've ordered 19.5" numchucka seem fine, bo staff is allright but very lightweight and tapered (online retailer was out of stock of straight staffs)ill have it sorted out over the next month.

 

[Theocratic Fascist]

Jesus clearly did not want violent confrontations as is evident when Peter drew his sword and cut of a mans ear. Right after Jesus healed him.

Jesus also said "Return your sword TO ITS PLACE"
Jesus was acknowledging that the sword HAD A PLACE by Peters SIDE. even if to say for utility reasons, it still had a place and he carried it with him daily, with no ridicule.

Some people will say Jesus rebuked Peter for his use of the sword. What sticks out to me is what Jesus told him specifically… “Put the sword into its sheath. The cup that the father has given me, should I not by all means drink it?”. (John 18:11)

Peter used the sword to harm someone who was going to arrest Jesus. In essence: By trying to defend Jesus, Peter was actively standing in the way of God’s will. Jesus was supposed to be arrested so his purpose could be fulfilled. Peter attacking the servant was an attempt to thwart God’s plan, even if he might’ve been unaware of it at the time. Can it be said that Jesus was upset with Peter simply for his use of the sword? Or is it more reasonable to say that Jesus corrected Peter because the use of his weapon was in direct conflict with something God determined to take place?

Let’s bring this example home: Taking up arms to fight an invading military force or to “free the country” would be ”learning the ways of war” at least, and opposition to God’s will at most. Since we know a tyrannical global military will be part of the NWO and compliance with the mark of the beast. It’s also said that the military force will be God’s method of punishment, as he has used plenty of worldly military forces in the past to bring judgment on his people. So fighting against that would be an attempt to hinder God’s ultimate plan.

Is using a weapon to defend yourself, your family, or innocent people from a criminal directly standing in the way of God’s will? I doubt it. It’s not likely that killing a crack head, serial rapist, kidnapper or (fill in the blank) in a heated moment of self defense could be seen as a direct act against God‘s will. Of course we shouldn’t be going out of our way to act violently towards these people as a first resort. But if you’re standing in line at the bank and someone comes in guns blazing, that’s not the time to start negotiating and convincing the robbers why they should behave like good Christians.

 

[SusanB]

Here is a lesson in self-defense.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1656703211288563712

 

[kenmuldoon55]

Here is a lesson in self-defense.

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1656703211288563712

Love it Susan!

 

[The God Pill]

At the kingdom hall they are all bragging/virtue signalling as I type on how they'll obey the faithful slave and not react when the beasts forces show up where they are to liquidate them or send them to camps essentially bunker video programming. I'm not commenting today but
a reminder of the 2nd half of Zechariah is certainly overdue for them

 

[kenmuldoon55]

The kobudo equipment came in but the gi is a size too big because I'm in the weight bracket for size 4 but height of size 3, the Sai pair I ordered are apparently child size 15" when I should've ordered 19.5" numchucka seem fine, bo staff is allright but very lightweight and tapered (online retailer was out of stock of straight staffs)ill have it sorted out over the next month.

Nunchucks are what you use for numbskulls right?