Yes I've practiced at a shooting range. No, I can't take the gun apart but I can definitely load it and fire it!
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About self defense
- Thread starter DavidCJ
- Start date
BagdadBill
Well-known member
Glad to hear that you have learned it's functions. You didn't say whether you bought it new or used. If used, maybe you didn't get the manual.
Most manuals are easy to find with a search. In there you can find how to break it down to clean it. Typically it just involves taking the slide off. Or you could search on Youtube. Seems like they have a video for everything except how to fix a corrupt government.
I didn't purchase it but kind of 'inherited' it from my grandmother passing away. Lol
Theocratic Fascist
Active member
The answer seems simple enough: Would Jesus do it? Some may be able to take verses here and there where he tells his apostles to buy a sword or he said “one wicked person can destroy much good” and use those scriptures to fit a round peg in a square hole. But where Jesus is absolutely clear, are the areas that contradict such behavior.
The sermon on the mount clearly gives us the picture of how Jesus wants us to behave and live our lives. And his actions prove much more than any one scripture about self protection how Jesus behaved. We are all called to follow his example.
I’ve taken to heart the concept of: If I would not do it with Jesus in my presence, I should not do it at all. If he showed up at your front door and asked to come in, what in your house would you be ashamed of if he saw it? Would you deny him to look through your belongings? He knows the deepest secrets of your heart. Attempting to keep anything hidden from him is a dead giveaway that you’re doing something you know he would not approve of.
Would you want to show him your gun collection? Perhaps he’d be proud of the fact that you’ve stockpiled 10,000 rounds of ammunition. Maybe he’d like to binge watch all the Marvel movies with you. Or play a couple rounds of Nazi Zombies on your PS5. I’m not trying to say that any of you specifically are like this, I’m just using these as examples.
I’m certainly not innocent of this myself. One of my favorite movies of all time is Blade Runner 2049. Would I want to sit down and watch something like that with Jesus? I have to admit, I’d be embarrassed at the least and ashamed at most. Another one of my favorite films is Young Frankenstein. Although it’s a classic and very funny, I would be extremely hesitant to include Jesus in a watching of that. That hesitancy is a good indicator that I shouldn’t be doing it. We can’t hide anything from God. There’s no “incognito mode” for him. You can’t just step away from his presence to do something he wouldn’t like then step back into his presence and pretend everything is fine.
So coming back to firearms. I own some myself, I have gear that compliments them as well. Aside from how Jesus told us to conduct ourselves, here is the critical question I ask myself, “does owning firearms and tactical equipment like body armor say without words that I trust these manmade devices for my safety more than I trust Jehovah to protect me?”. When Jesus sent his apostles out to perform signs and wonders he commanded them to take nothing but the clothes on their back and a staff. Because he wanted them to know what it meant to truly depend on their Heavenly Father. By owning guns and gear are we subconsciously taking faith away from God’s ability to protect us and putting that faith in these tools?
It’s a tricky question to say the least. One on hand you could say “yes, God might find my lack of faith disturbing”. On the other hand, we are physical creatures with physical needs. Having faith in God’s power doesn’t mean we can built a house without lumber and hand tools. Even Noah had to use REAL wood and REAL tools to build the Ark. Guns are real tools that can be used for good purposes. Hunting with rifles is way easier and safer than how our ancestors hunted animals. A gun is a way more effective home protection tool than a frying pan or baseball bat. We can even use guns for fun. Friendly competition shooting, skeet shooting, range time with the buddies. But…
We often do not see how much work God puts into our lives. Let’s say you were leaving the grocery store and walking to your car. Unbeknownst to you, someone was watching you, thinking about attacking you and stealing your food. But for some reason he chose not to. You would never have known God acted to keep you safe in that instance because you were clueless of the potential danger. I believe moments like this happen to us all the time but because we never see it or know it, we don’t consider it. Likewise how many times has someone considered breaking into your home and you didn’t know it because God prevented them from doing so? You own firearms, you could very easily shoot an intruder and protect your family. For a fantastic example of this, watch The Chosen Season 3 Episode 6. (Actually, watch the entire series. It’s seriously good). Case in point: We should put more faith in Jehovah’s ability to protect us than in our ability to effectively use a weapon.
Sorry for the long winded response. There’s a lot of very interesting things to say about this topic and I’m sure someone will have some good counterpoints to my post here.
The sermon on the mount clearly gives us the picture of how Jesus wants us to behave and live our lives. And his actions prove much more than any one scripture about self protection how Jesus behaved. We are all called to follow his example.
I’ve taken to heart the concept of: If I would not do it with Jesus in my presence, I should not do it at all. If he showed up at your front door and asked to come in, what in your house would you be ashamed of if he saw it? Would you deny him to look through your belongings? He knows the deepest secrets of your heart. Attempting to keep anything hidden from him is a dead giveaway that you’re doing something you know he would not approve of.
Would you want to show him your gun collection? Perhaps he’d be proud of the fact that you’ve stockpiled 10,000 rounds of ammunition. Maybe he’d like to binge watch all the Marvel movies with you. Or play a couple rounds of Nazi Zombies on your PS5. I’m not trying to say that any of you specifically are like this, I’m just using these as examples.
I’m certainly not innocent of this myself. One of my favorite movies of all time is Blade Runner 2049. Would I want to sit down and watch something like that with Jesus? I have to admit, I’d be embarrassed at the least and ashamed at most. Another one of my favorite films is Young Frankenstein. Although it’s a classic and very funny, I would be extremely hesitant to include Jesus in a watching of that. That hesitancy is a good indicator that I shouldn’t be doing it. We can’t hide anything from God. There’s no “incognito mode” for him. You can’t just step away from his presence to do something he wouldn’t like then step back into his presence and pretend everything is fine.
So coming back to firearms. I own some myself, I have gear that compliments them as well. Aside from how Jesus told us to conduct ourselves, here is the critical question I ask myself, “does owning firearms and tactical equipment like body armor say without words that I trust these manmade devices for my safety more than I trust Jehovah to protect me?”. When Jesus sent his apostles out to perform signs and wonders he commanded them to take nothing but the clothes on their back and a staff. Because he wanted them to know what it meant to truly depend on their Heavenly Father. By owning guns and gear are we subconsciously taking faith away from God’s ability to protect us and putting that faith in these tools?
It’s a tricky question to say the least. One on hand you could say “yes, God might find my lack of faith disturbing”. On the other hand, we are physical creatures with physical needs. Having faith in God’s power doesn’t mean we can built a house without lumber and hand tools. Even Noah had to use REAL wood and REAL tools to build the Ark. Guns are real tools that can be used for good purposes. Hunting with rifles is way easier and safer than how our ancestors hunted animals. A gun is a way more effective home protection tool than a frying pan or baseball bat. We can even use guns for fun. Friendly competition shooting, skeet shooting, range time with the buddies. But…
We often do not see how much work God puts into our lives. Let’s say you were leaving the grocery store and walking to your car. Unbeknownst to you, someone was watching you, thinking about attacking you and stealing your food. But for some reason he chose not to. You would never have known God acted to keep you safe in that instance because you were clueless of the potential danger. I believe moments like this happen to us all the time but because we never see it or know it, we don’t consider it. Likewise how many times has someone considered breaking into your home and you didn’t know it because God prevented them from doing so? You own firearms, you could very easily shoot an intruder and protect your family. For a fantastic example of this, watch The Chosen Season 3 Episode 6. (Actually, watch the entire series. It’s seriously good). Case in point: We should put more faith in Jehovah’s ability to protect us than in our ability to effectively use a weapon.
Sorry for the long winded response. There’s a lot of very interesting things to say about this topic and I’m sure someone will have some good counterpoints to my post here.
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SusanB
Well-known member
My husband and I don’t own guns, never have and never will. Although I don’t fault others and I have no young children in my care. I do pay attention when I see methods of self-defense that show ways to get away from an attacker but mostly I don’t worry about something that may not happen and I try focusing on staying faithful regardless of the physical challenge. No judgment of others but I have made my decision for myself.
The God Pill
Well-known member
Which arts?
Driven, I have always felt the very same way you do NO GUNS! It just felt wrong having one, I mean we all know what they are used for..to kill! I still honestly hate having it and have thought about getting rid of it but honestly it only took one horrible incident to make me think twice. It's such a helpless, scary feeling when there's an intruder in your home and you have nothing to protect yourself with, it's a feeling no one can understand unless it happens to them. Do I feel it's wrong to have it?! Yes, as a Christian I absolutely do! Jesus made it very clear he who lives by the sword dies by the sword! I still might get rid of it. Might have to battle my hubby over it but with our killer chihuahua we now have I'm sure she can handle any intruder! Lol
SusanB
Well-known member
I understand. The truth is none of us really know what we will do in a moment of panic. I do have feeling for you because it is frightening to think some creep can enter your home.
The God Pill
Well-known member
I don't mind if anyone with no dependants conscience leads them to full pacifism.
We are familiar with the scriptures invoking the christlike obligation of a man to expend his life for his spouse if need be that said in bible times it appears in something small scale like a home invasion not war etc the couple were to act as a team
Ecclesiastes 4:9 Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their hard work. 10 For if one of them should fall, the other one can raise his partner up. But how will it be with just the one who falls when there is not another to raise him up?
11 Moreover, if two lie down together, they also will certainly get warm; but how can just one keep warm? 12 And if somebody could overpower one alone, two together could make a stand against him. And a threefold cord cannot quickly be torn in two.
The hebrew word for Eve's role in genesis Ezer often rendered helper in the bible has the primary context in the rest of scripture as an armor bearer/bodyguard like that sidekick of Jonathan in that one story.
We are familiar with the scriptures invoking the christlike obligation of a man to expend his life for his spouse if need be that said in bible times it appears in something small scale like a home invasion not war etc the couple were to act as a team
Ecclesiastes 4:9 Two are better than one, because they have a good reward for their hard work. 10 For if one of them should fall, the other one can raise his partner up. But how will it be with just the one who falls when there is not another to raise him up?
11 Moreover, if two lie down together, they also will certainly get warm; but how can just one keep warm? 12 And if somebody could overpower one alone, two together could make a stand against him. And a threefold cord cannot quickly be torn in two.
The hebrew word for Eve's role in genesis Ezer often rendered helper in the bible has the primary context in the rest of scripture as an armor bearer/bodyguard like that sidekick of Jonathan in that one story.
Jonah
Well-known member
Guns, like all tools, have legitimate uses. Farmers need them to protect their livestock, and hunting is a legitimate activity as long as it's not just for sport (i.e. eat what you kill.)
Given what we know about how God views even accidental killings - see the avenger of blood, and cities of refuge - I personally would be very hesitant to own one for the main purpose of self defense against other humans.
Given what we know about how God views even accidental killings - see the avenger of blood, and cities of refuge - I personally would be very hesitant to own one for the main purpose of self defense against other humans.
SusanB
Well-known member
Good point.
Theocratic Fascist
Active member
And there’s so many perfect examples of this. Think of all the items you could potentially use as a weapon that serve other purposes. Crowbars, baseball bats, frying pans, shovels, your own fists, the list goes on. All of those items have other uses. I believe owning firearms for support tools like hunting or even recreational tools like competition shooting is a perfectly legitimate reason. And IF a situation arises where you need to defend yourself and have a firearm, that decision comes down to you. But if someone is stocking up on guns and ammo exclusively to make a stand against the protestors or an invading army, they should probably rethink their position on this earth and loyalty to God.
The God Pill
Well-known member
It's most certainly not something to be taken lightly. Multiple OT apocrypha portray the earth as alive and unhappy with human bloodshed from my pov I think anyone that did end someone might risk the possibility of inhibited agricultural output for the remainder of there time in this side of Armageddon. There's anecdotal reports in modern times of a strong correlation of violence level above ground with how easily accessible water is from underground in an area
Yes there's always archery and blunt objects and you can always wound or incapacitate where possible. Not that many objects exactly home in on people's head or vitals autonomous from human input. Isn't there a variety of nonlethal shotgun ammunition rubber etc
The God Pill
Well-known member
Pdp Nice, elegant looks like a Sig. A few years back the months before I got my pistol and was practicing was into the .40 glocks (9mm glocks jammed on me frequently but .40's were good) but with covid and blm and possible supply chain issues thought there'd be risk of looting so rushed and got a 9mm ruger security 9 pro compact it's a bit vanilla but nice I'm happy with it and does the job. 5 mags 2 of them extended ones and a laser mine is adequate Nomex's springfield is a bit better for concealed carry.Me too. Walther pdp 9mm with a Holosun red dot sight and a TLR rail light. I would not miss.
J
Jehovahsloyalchild
Guest
I cannot see any reason to possess a firearm. For Self defense or for any other reason. Guns are not from God nor is any weapon. God is our life giver He owns our life force we should do our best to avoid violence even in the face of death. Revelation says if we should die by the sword or be led to captivity then go. It does not say lift your sword and slaughter those who are about to slaughter you. Guns are from this world from Satan and this system. Can you imagine owning a gun in Jehovahs kingdom? Guns could very well lead to murder and as we know God commands us not to murder. Jesus made a great testimony as i am sure many here can recall about turning the other cheek returning evil to noone. Revenge does not belong to us it belongs to Jehovah.
Romans 12
Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of* all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath;* for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.”* 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.”* 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.
Proverbs 3:31
Do not envy the violent or choose any of their ways.
Leviticus 24:17
Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death.
Matthew 5:21
You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’
I rather remain as unblemished as possible in the eyes of Jehovah. I cannot justify taking one's life in the heat of the moment even in the face of death... possibly losing my chance at the real life at eternal life.
Romans 12
Return evil for evil to no one. Take into consideration what is fine from the viewpoint of* all men. 18 If possible, as far as it depends on you, be peaceable with all men. 19 Do not avenge yourselves, beloved, but yield place to the wrath;* for it is written: “‘Vengeance is mine; I will repay,’ says Jehovah.”* 20 But “if your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him something to drink; for by doing this you will heap fiery coals on his head.”* 21 Do not let yourself be conquered by the evil, but keep conquering the evil with the good.
Proverbs 3:31
Do not envy the violent or choose any of their ways.
Leviticus 24:17
Whoever takes a human life shall surely be put to death.
Matthew 5:21
You have heard that it was said to those of old, ‘You shall not murder; and whoever murders will be liable to judgment.’
I rather remain as unblemished as possible in the eyes of Jehovah. I cannot justify taking one's life in the heat of the moment even in the face of death... possibly losing my chance at the real life at eternal life.
The God Pill
Well-known member
Have you read the second half of Zechariah recently?
J
Jehovahsloyalchild
Guest
No but I will now that you mentioned it. Does it contradict the we shall not kill commandment?
The God Pill
Well-known member
It appears to me when consulting it and some of the qumran scrolls that there will be some defensive human on the ground skirmishes very near the end. There's the house of David (annointed) and tents of Judah (great crowd) for the purpose of the humility of everyone Jehovah grants the tents of Judah some victories without the whole white horse and 144k treatment etc so that there isn't the risk of the house of david being prideful and after that he saves the people through them presumably so the humans don't attribute victory to mere arm of flesh that way he shows that he can provide deliverance through any means he chooses. In that day the great crowd would be like David and the 144K like Elohim like (christ) The Angel of Jehovah
SusanB
Well-known member
Hi JLC, I agree with you on the basic principle of Christianity being that we don’t return evil for evil. However, situations are often not as black and white as one may suppose. For example, you quote Leviticus 24:17 that anyone who takes a human life will SURELY be put to death. That obviously was not absolute, otherwise how can you explain the actions of Jael at Judges 5:26: “With her hand she reached for the tent pin, Her right hand for the workman’s mallet. And she hammered Sisʹe·ra, she crushed his head, And she smashed and pierced his temples.”
Jael did not come under a death sentence. The definition of murder is “The killing of another person without justification or excuse..”
I think all we can do is reason with people and show them the applicable scriptures and they decide for themselves and based on their relationship with Jehovah and his son. I think that if a person is defending children then they may be obligated (and a godly obligation) to do anything in their power to protect them. I know that when I had young children under my care, I would have done anything I could and if that resulted in someone’s death I would not consider that murder. As I said I don’t own guns and I will never own one but that doesn’t mean that I would condemn others who have a gun. They are used for other things and could be used to prevent a crime, such as firing a warning shot. Each one will carry his own load.
Nomex
Well-known member
No not at all. But that Stock extends out quite a bit.