Can anyone help me figure this out? Thank You!

MuleJule

Well-known member
@MuleJule it's been my understanding since I was a teen that Adam passed on the life force he received from the breath of life on to his offspring it's received by people from the father by their conception like a torch that for the duration of the fire can light other torches I don't remember the details but a decade ago I remember writing something in support of the blood doctrine and some other of our beliefs partly based on that. The nephilim did not have the same line of spirit/life force as people with human fathers but whatever that of a watcher is. I haven't read Seola though I've heard about that publication the society once promoted it may warrant investigation someday though given it was dictated from a demon via automatic writing I'd trust it about as much as the Quran. You are more than welcome to share anything.
The quotes from Enoch / Jubilees are very interesting and fill in a lot of gaps. Also what you said about the breath of life passed on from father to offspring via blood. That is another interesting subject regarding blood, that I also find fascinating. There is much more to bloodlines and DNA than most of us realize. I have never heard that theory of the nephilim inheriting the life force of the fallen. I am open to it being a possibility. Much of what you said makes sense and matches up to my research.

As for Seola, I read that it was dictated through a repentant fallen angel, supposedly one who materialized but didn't breed with women, but regretted his course and tried to make amends. He is actually one of the main characters who supported Japheth's wife / Noah's daughter-in-law who is the main character. The book is her journal. It may be complete nonsense, but it really gave an amazing perspective of the pre-flood world, and nothing that would really conflict with the Bible or depreciate from it.
 
Last edited:

kirmmy

Well-known member
Another point in Gen 6:4 says: "The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that..." What's your take on that? I've heard some wild speculation on that including Big foot, yeti, etc.
If you read the preceding verse it says:

3: So the LORD said, “My Spirit will not contend with man forever, for he is mortal; his days shall be 120 years.”

4: The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and afterward as well—when the sons of God had relations with the daughters of men.

It indicates to me that the Nephilim were in the earth when God made the pronouncement that man had another 120 years to go...and "afterward as well".

Kind of makes you wonder where man got all his legends of the Gods like the Greeks and Romans, eh? They probably from the fallen angels or the nephilim.

The Bible is quite clear though that nothing survived the flood except Noah, his family and the contents of the Ark.

Gen 7:21-23:
And every living thing that moved upon the earth perished—birds, livestock, animals, every creature that swarms upon the earth, and all mankind. 22 Of all that was on dry land, everything that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 And every living thing on the face of the earth was destroyed—man and livestock, crawling creatures and birds of the air; they were blotted out from the earth, and only Noah and those with him in the ark remained.

I like the way the Bible said it...better than I said it earlier; "everything that had the breath of life in its nostrils". So fish weren't affected, naturally.

You really have to be careful with the Apocrypha. There's a reason it didn't make it into the canon. It most likely has some use as a history text but the Bible should always take precedence.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
Good points. I need to slowly read and digest the long posts that you guys just added. Thanks for sharing, because I really want to have a better understanding on this. WT publications left me so unsatisfied.

Genesis 6 leaves a lot of room for speculation, and the wording of vs 12 - "And God saw the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for ALL flesh had corrupted their way upon the earth." makes one think that the generations of DNA manipulation had truly ruined all flesh, excluding the humans that Jehovah protected to preserve the genetic line from Adam to Jesus, and obviously Jehovah saw to it that some animals remained untainted.

Another point in Gen 6:4 says: "The Nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that..." What's your take on that? I've heard some wild speculation on that including Big foot, yeti, etc.
I'm highly skeptical towards but don't flat out reject the possibility of any post flood hybrids it would be much more plausible if they were artificial in origin like a human exposed to genetic alteration by a form of black goo, something to do with fungi, or some form of pre flood technology discovered or remade from whatever texts Kanaim found and copied in jubilees several generations after the flood written by the watchers on stone before the flood. Some claim a second incursion of wicked angels mating but while that is a likely possibility in the months-years shortly before Armageddon as 2 Esdras seems to predict that; the punishment of the watchers in Enoch seems to have been meant to be very severe in part to deter the rest of the angels of ever considering doing what they had that leaves the only route of post flood giants in the bible having watcher ancestry being if one or more nephilim were alive when the flood happened and had built a boat the god culture YouTube channel alleges that in a video on one of Ron Wyatt's finds and the book of enki.

Goliath was smaller than people usually think in the septuagint four cubits and a span the only post flood giant large enough to make one wonder if they weren't fully human was Og king of Bashan the dimensions of his bed in the bible match that of Marduk's bed in Babylonian mythology. That "also after that" in Genesis 6 is worded a little more clearly in the Septuagint

Now the giants were upon the earth in those days; and after that when the sons of God were wont to go in to the daughters of men, they bore children to them, those were the giants of old, the men of renown.

@MuleJule what you said on Seola is interesting because
while some try to equate Azazel with the devil something the author of the apocalypse of abraham attempts to do Azazel was supposed to be bound. If any character in Enoch is the devil it would probably be Gadreel. I wouldn't rule out entirely what you described on this entity though your description reminds me a pinch of abdiel in Milton's Paradise Lost.

Jubilees indicates that before they decided to take wives watchers were visiting the earth in the days of Jared probably in response to the calling on the name of Jehovah mentioned in Genesis 4 it was likely because of them operating this way in proximity and interaction for a while that they succumbed to inappropriate desires and conspired to the course they took.

15. And in the second week of the tenth jubilee Mahalalel took unto him to wife Dînâh, the daughter of Barâkî’êl the daughter of his father's brother, and she bare him a son in the third
461 A.M.week in the sixth year, and he called his name Jared; 9 for in his days the angels of the Lord descended on
the earth, those who are named the Watchers, that they should instruct the children of men, and that they should do judgment and uprightness on the earth
 
Last edited:

MuleJule

Well-known member
It indicates to me that the Nephilim were in the earth when God made the pronouncement that man had another 120 years to go...and "afterward as well".
That "also after that" in Genesis 6 is worded a little more clearly in the Septuagint
I tend to agree, I just had that little question nagging in the corner of my mind, raised by some YouTubers. I don't believe Jehovah would have allowed any of that sort to survive the flood, outsmart him somehow. The idea of black goo, fungi or preflood technology surviving, I hadn't considered. I do believe they had advanced civilzation and technolgy, way beyond our present capabilites. There are ancient carvings showing technology, air travel, even portals. And the buildings they constructed (research Graham Hancock and Brein Foerster) prove there were advanced civilizations all over the world. The structures could not even be replicated with modern machinery, engineering and technology. Much of the evidence is buried. A lot has been intentionally destroyed.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
Im going to bed and we probably should have migrated this part of the discussion to the apocrypha threads that better fit the Genesis topic so that discussion here can resume on what makes our brothers and sisters here distinct from most of the rank and file. I'll post a quick thought in one of them.
 

MuleJule

Well-known member
Im going to bed and we probably should have migrated this part of the discussion to the apocrypha threads that better fit the Genesis topic so that discussion here can resume on what makes our brothers and sisters here distinct from most of the rank and file. I'll post a quick thought in one of them.
I was thinking that too, this topic needs to be in a different thread. Sorry everyone.
 

MuleJule

Well-known member
all you have to do to be an apostate is disagree with the GB
Those of us that still believe the basic truths and can refrain from "throwing out the baby with the bath water" we are not in a cult. So my answer is Robert's answer, the Jews were still God's people even when they sinned, until they killed Jesus that is.

That's the most important part to me, we are a cult if we obey men. The scripture "obediance is better than sacrifice" applies to obeying God.
Yes, you're absolutely spot on. I've come to terms with being labeled an apostate from brainwashed JWs perspective, perhaps more accurately a heretic. They just love to slap on that scary apostate label so people stay away from you and your poison. I get it. When my mom blurted out "I guess you're an apostate now" I was prepared for that reaction. What bothered me more was her saying they failed as parents. That basically means they consider me a failure as a person. So because I disagree with the GB, now everything I have accomplished and overcome in my entire life doesn't matter to them. I'm a failure in their eyes. How heartless.

So now comes the phase of letting go of what people think and just accepting that they lack the awareness to think objectively. This is truly going to boil down to obedience to Jehovah, like you said, and allowing my reputaton to be temporarily smeared. ❤️‍🩹
 

PJ54

Well-known member
Yes, you're absolutely spot on. I've come to terms with being labeled an apostate from brainwashed JWs perspective, perhaps more accurately a heretic. They just love to slap on that scary apostate label so people stay away from you and your poison. I get it. When my mom blurted out "I guess you're an apostate now" I was prepared for that reaction. What bothered me more was her saying they failed as parents. That basically means they consider me a failure as a person. So because I disagree with the GB, now everything I have accomplished and overcome in my entire life doesn't matter to them. I'm a failure in their eyes. How heartless.

So now comes the phase of letting go of what people think and just accepting that they lack the awareness to think objectively. This is truly going to boil down to obedience to Jehovah, like you said, and allowing my reputaton to be temporarily smeared. ❤️‍🩹
You may have to throw the "apostate" label back at them. Perhaps, even calling the friends & Org members of Christendom. They probably get mad but this to the point they might as well believe in the trinity & anyone who goes against the Org will be tossed into hell to suffer & be fed upon by God & the angels for eternity.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
35 For I came to cause division, with a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a young wife against her mother-in-law. 36 Indeed, a man’s enemies will be persons of his own household.

20 Bear in mind the word I said to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute YOU also; if they have observed my word, they will observe YOURS also. 21 But they will do all these things against YOU on account of my name, because they do not know him that sent me.

24 By faith Moses, when grown up, refused to be called the son of the daughter of Pharʹaoh, 25 choosing to be ill-treated with the people of God rather than to have the temporary enjoyment of sin, 26 because he esteemed the reproach of the Christ as riches greater than the treasures of Egypt; for he looked intently toward the payment of the reward.

41 These, therefore, went their way from before the Sanʹhe·drin, rejoicing because they had been counted worthy to be dishonored in behalf of his name.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
Was thinking about it a week ago and another answer to what makes us different is that our spiritual hunger is harder to satiate we are not as content with simple going through the motions routine consumption of the current sour milk at the hall treating it as a mere social club. We are eager to study and learn beyond parroting the text of a current year watchtower paragraph each week that is below the quality we recall fifteen years back.
 

TruthLover

Well-known member
I've been told a few times by people that I'm an overanalyzer. I always think of worst case scenarios and consequences which makes me quite pessimistic sometimes, I think I verge on OCD. I started researching into the food and health industry a few years ago which I think is was really opened my eyes up to the reality of this corrupt world, and really helped to appreciate Jehovah's justice and righteousness so much more. I think a common thing with ones here is that they have come to distrust authority and question what we are told.
 

a watcher

Well-known member
I'm keeping an open mind. The GB and Robert have quite different expectations of the near future and I'm not sure which one will be correct, but whatever Jehovah decides to do is fine with me. I would like to participate in the preaching work of the JWs for as long as it continues. After that, I will wait for Jehovah to tell me what to do.
 

Dorothea

Well-known member
I've been told a few times by people that I'm an overanalyzer. I always think of worst case scenarios and consequences which makes me quite pessimistic sometimes, I think I verge on OCD. I started researching into the food and health industry a few years ago which I think is was really opened my eyes up to the reality of this corrupt world, and really helped to appreciate Jehovah's justice and righteousness so much more. I think a common thing with ones here is that they have come to distrust authority and question what we are told.
I don't think I have a problem with the concept of legitimate authority. I was always very obedient when I thought the authority of the GB was God appointed and that they had our best interests at heart. But when they told us to do something that upset my conscience, I realized that their authority only extends as far as their willingness to adhere to Bible laws and principles. It was like getting slammed from behind to see that they may not actually be putting Jehovah's will and our best interests foremost. Obviously, the ultimate authority is God and his Christ, and any supposed earthly authority will not have my obedience if they violate what is holy.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I don’t wear one and I’m the only one who doesn’t. But no one would know unless you volunteered the information.
At the meetings at our congregation, for every meeting they announcing just before the prayer that masks are “STRONGLY” recommended. So, even though there appears to be a few who are not wearing a mask, the pressure is on to “voluntarily” wear one. Of course I cannot see the entire congregation in attendance, but I know these people very well and I can hear when they give an answer and most have the mask on. The mask muffles their speech.
 

noname

Well-known member
At the meetings at our congregation, for every meeting they announcing just before the prayer that masks are “STRONGLY” recommended. So, even though there appears to be a few who are not wearing a mask, the pressure is on to “voluntarily” wear one. Of course I cannot see the entire congregation in attendance, but I know these people very well and I can hear when they give an answer and most have the mask on. The mask muffles their speech.
I’ve actually been shunned by a few at the hall ever since, a few who were closest to me, but on the other hand some that I thought were going to be confrontational have actually warmed up to me. It’s amazing life’s little surprises.
 

StillA_WorshiperOfJah

Well-known member
Have you ever seen the movie or read the book "The Giver"? I have mentioned it before in another thread, but I'm constantly seeing parallels with the mind control. The main character has a slight tendency to question, which leads to him reasoning and he stops taking the daily "health injection" - once he stops, his mind is open to what is really happening in society (which is horrifying but made to appear beautiful and orderly), but nobody else can see, except the leadership who will stop at nothing to prevent him from sharing what the true nature of their reality is. Very interesting.
[/QUOTE]

I found it on Amazon Prime. I will give it a try
 
Top