I want to tell you all an experience . . .

יהוה_saves

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
This happened while i was aux pioneering and fully indoctrinated. You could say i was one of the core members of our congregation at the time, I was in exemplary standing and happy to be a JW during those years.

what happened was this:

my husband ran an automotive business that required him to have a membership to Mannheim Auto Auction in Portland Oregon. This auction is one of the best auto auctions on the west coast- you could bid on cars at cost (wholesale) and resell (retail) them for thousands more. We did this business of flipping cars for years and if any of the cars needed work (many did) we would just fix them up in our repair shop. Our repair shop was also open to the public and many brothers took their cars there and always wanted a discount. it really irritated my husband.

One day, an elder brought this brother to my husband’s repair shop and explained to him that this brother really needed a truck for his work, but he couldn’t afford one and would my husband (he was and is a non-JW) please consider doing him a big favor (even tho my husband didn’t know this brother or the elder very well) by bidding on a truck for him at the auction and selling it to him for the cost (plus any nominal fees, but those weren’t much).

My husband came home from work that night and told me about it and he was fuming. He blamed me for sending them there- but i had nothing to do with sending them there. It was a huge source of contention in my marriage. Eventually, for me, my husband said ok, he would do it. At the next auction he bid on a nice truck at wholesale- about $7000 below retail for a used truck like that. it was nice. He sold it to that brother for cash and paid the auction off and got the title for him. done.

fast forward about four months to our circuit assembly. I’m sitting in my seat, watching the assembly- and here comes the truck brother and his wife on stage. He was being interviewed about how Jehovah has helped him in times of distress. This brother started talking about how he needed a truck for work, and he was about to lose his job if he didn’t get one, but he couldn’t afford one, so he prayed and prayed for Jehovah to help him find a solution, and then POOF out of nowhere, Jehovah created a situation in which he was able to secure a truck at wholesale! All credit went to Jehovah. He never mentioned my husband or the auction, he had no idea how this created tension in my marriage. I was sitting there in my seat with my mouth open- finally i whispered to the sister sitting next to me and I said: “My husband got him that truck at the auto auction a few months ago. . “

My next experience will blow you away.
 
Thank you for sharing. So disappointing. My husband and I have always been generous with the friends and we are definitely not rich but when we have money or jobs, we like to be generous. I am aware some of the friends are pretty bold in making requests or being cheap.
 
Driven said:
Thank you for sharing. So disappointing. My husband and I have always been generous with the friends and we are definitely not rich but when we have money or jobs, we like to be generous. I am aware some of the friends are pretty bold in making requests or being cheap.
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so many pioneer elders brought they service cars to our repair shop for maintenance. They would give my husband magazines and my husband would take them and then bring them home to me. he never read them. I would try to explain that to the elders in informal conversation but they took it as i was interfering in a man’s affairs and i should butt out. my marriage really suffered because of this. I finally requested a formal meeting with the elders to tell them to please tell everyone to stop bringing their service vehicles to our shop for maintenance OR just pay the damn bill!!!! stop asking for a discount. - i had the meeting and i informed them how things were and how i felt, and I was basically treated like a pariah so i backed off.
 
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Asadour said:
so many pioneer elders brought they service cars to our repair shop for maintenance. They would give my husband magazines and my husband would take them and then bring them home to me. he never read them. I would try to explain that to the elders in informal conversation but they took it as i was interfering in a man’s affairs and i should butt out. my marriage really suffered because of this. I finally requested a formal meeting with the elders to tell them to please tell everyone to stop bringing their service vehicles to our shop for maintenance OR just pay the damn bill!!!! stop asking for a discount. - i had the meeting and i informed them how things we and how i felt, and I was basically treated like a pariah so i backed off.
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Yes, I know how you feel. True love for others requires that we LISTEN and have compassion for their situation. I wish they had listened to you and showed respect for your feelings and your husband’s feelings.
 
It's funny how the neglect of the organisation can be turned around at assemblies and be made into blessings from Jehovah. I know a sister who has a non JW husband, this man is rich, like millionaire rich but he is one of the most generous people I personally know, lets call him Fred. A retired CO and his wife moved into the sisters congregation and like most "retired" organisational men they were cast aside by the society and left to fend for themselves and ended up living in a shed. When "Fred" heard of their situation he invited them to live in one of his units, (he has a property portfolio) rent free for as long as they need. Ironically I'm sure the retired CO would see this as a blessing from Jehovah (It may well be) but would never see the hypocrisy of the society for casting him and his wife out in the cold, while the leadership lives in luxury.
 
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SollaSollew said:
It's funny how the neglect of the organisation can be turned around at assemblies and be made into blessings from Jehovah. I know a sister who has a non JW husband, this man is rich, like millionaire rich but he is one of the most generous people I personally know, lets call him Fred. A retired CO and his wife moved into the sisters congregation and like most "retired" organisational men they were cast aside by the society and left to fend for themselves and ended up living in a shed. When "Fred" heard of their situation he invited them to live in one of his units, (he has a property portfolio) rent free for as long as they need. Ironically I'm sure the retired CO would see this as a blessing from Jehovah (It may well be) but would never see they hypocrisy of the society for casting him and his wife out in the cold, while the leadership lives in luxury.
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typical of the average experience told and retold on the stage at many a circuit assembly and convention. you never get the whole story.

did you read Crisis of Conscience by Ray Franz?
 
Shoshana said:
I am part way through that 👍🏻
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that’s is how i first learned about 1975. i was a JW for 27 years in exemplary standing and i didn’t have a clue that ever happened until i read Ray Franz’s book just this year. I felt sick. literally, physically sick, when i found out about it. how they managed to hide it from JWs like me for that long is astonishing. I guess it could be said that i hid it from myself for refusing to read about JWs history as that was always verboten- deemed “apostate driven half truths and lies” or whatever.
 
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Shoshana said:
Barbara Anderson was in the Brooklyn bethel for years and she worked in the writing dept, I have also read her account of what took place over many years, WT tell us not to look up information outside as it is misinformation or worse apostasy, all of those excuses to keep us from knowing the truth, I’m certainly not saying that everything bad everyone says about the org is gospel but there is no smoke without fire.
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tomorrow i am going to post another experience. this was is a doozy- i was told to lie by the elders literally a month after i got baptized. and i did. i lied for them. the back story is appalling.
 
OP…. We’ve all have experiences like these. They certainly aren’t an indictment of an entire organization. I’ve been in business for decades and regularly do business with brothers and sisters. They’ve never asked for a discount, as they appreciate my knowledge and honesty. I’ve had just one bad experience with a brother who ended up getting DF’d. Personality differences and misunderstandings. They happen. I just overlook them. And Jehovah did get that brother the truck. You were the vessel.
 
BillyRay said:
And Jehovah did get that brother the truck.
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You know that scripture that says "Jehovah makes the sun shine on the wicked the same way as the righteous." That's what it means. But it does NOT mean it was a blessing from Jehovah as if Jehovah has a hand in "brothers" taking advantage every chance they get and resenting anyone who has two quarters to rub together. And as if Jehovah was involved in causing contention in this sisters marriage. I have had many similar experiences and so have many I know and if you haven't count yourself the exception to the rule. Ever hear the saying among the witnesses, "half the brothers are there to test the other half"?
 
I understand why some feel less than satisfied with experiences with the brothers and sisters. Like all people, some are great people who I love to be around while with others, I have to pray and ask for Jehovah’s help to show brotherly love. But just to prevent any possible misunderstandings or bad feelings, my husband and I have always tried not to do business with our brothers and sisters. I think with Asadour’s issue its more complex because her husband is not a witness and that should have been a signal for extra care by the brothers and sisters not to put a stumbling block or even perceived stumbling block in front of the non-believing husband of a sister. So, it’s too bad that happened. I’ve found every congregation is different. Some are more loving than others. It’s like each congregation has it’s own personality. Stuff happens, right? Is it any different in a lot of families?
 
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Nomex said:
You know that scripture that says "Jehovah makes the sun shine on the wicked the same way as the righteous." That's what it means. But it does NOT mean it was a blessing from Jehovah as if Jehovah has a hand in "brothers" taking advantage every chance they get and resenting anyone who has two quarters to rub together. And as if Jehovah was involved in causing contention in this sisters marriage. I have had many similar experiences and so have many I know and if you haven't count yourself the exception to the rule. Ever hear the saying among the witnesses, "half the brothers are there to test the other half"?
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I’m not exactly sure what you’re trying to say as you’re bringing in several different points. Jehovah does make it rain on both the good and evil. But it doesn’t mean that he’s indifferent to both. No…. Jehovah didn’t literally drop a truck in the brothers driveway. There are a number of different variables that had to happen to get that truck into the brothers driveway. Maybe Jehovah helped? Maybe he didn’t? Or maybe be he allowed something to transpire that brought it about - including giving the brother the direction and/or initiative to make it happen on his own?
 
These experiences can make other brothers/sisters feel inferior. They might be having a really bad time and are praying but feel nothing is happening, then listen to these experiences. It can cause lack of faith ? Just my thoughts
 
Asadour said:
Our repair shop was also open to the public and many brothers took their cars there and always wanted a discount. it really irritated my husband.
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Oh, I can relate. Back in the early 80s I was a Burger King manager and everybody at the Hall wanted me to get their kid a job. One time during lunch, (this was in Manhattan, NY) the crowd was coming in, and I noticed two women with Watchtowers in their hands. I asked if they were Witnesses and they said "yes" that they were Pioneers. So I jokingly told them, "I'll give you the Pioneer discount" and told my employee to give them a discount. They thanked me and came back every day after that expecting me to give them the discount. Same employee looked at me, and I just shook my head "no". The nerve of these people.

Had a Pioneer sister approach us about how she was in dire needs and couldn't pay some bills. She asked for $100.00 and swore she would pay us back. The sister disappeared. 2 years later she comes back to the Hall and she sees my wife and the lightbulb went off. My wife never said anything to her. She gave the money to her a few weeks later. If she had never seen us, she wouldn't have paid us back.

Friends sure love to take advantage of other friends.

RR
 
RR144 said:
Oh, I can relate. Back in the early 80s I was a Burger King manager and everybody at the Hall wanted me to get their kid a job. One time during lunch, (this was in Manhattan, NY) the crowd was coming in, and I noticed two women with Watchtowers in their hands. I asked if they were Witnesses and they said "yes" that they were Pioneers. So I jokingly told them, "I'll give you the Pioneer discount" and told my employee to give them a discount. They thanked me and came back every day after that expecting me to give them the discount. Same employee looked at me, and I just shook my head "no". The nerve of these people.

Had a Pioneer sister approach us about how she was in dire needs and couldn't pay some bills. She asked for $100.00 and swore she would pay us back. The sister disappeared. 2 years later she comes back to the Hall and she sees my wife and the lightbulb went off. My wife never said anything to her. She gave the money to her a few weeks later. If she had never seen us, she wouldn't have paid us back.

Friends sure love to take advantage of other friends.

RR
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yep they will do that and do that until you say NO MORE. and then attribute your largess to Jehovah - not that Jehovah doesn’t give, he does, but it’s just another form of manipulation that many Watchtower “company personnel” like to exploit.
 
Asadour said:
yep they will do that and do that until you say NO MORE. and then attribute your largess to Jehovah - not that Jehovah doesn’t give, he does, but it’s just another form of manipulation that many Watchtower “company personnel” like to exploit.
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Man…. Put the axe and your grinder away.

The BK story is just human nature on display. In fact…. It’s nature period. Feed a stray cat or dog a couple days in a row. See what happens.

Human beings love free stuff and discounts. Brother said there was a “Pioneer Discount”. He didn’t put a limit on it - like: “Today only…. Pioneer Discount!” Sisters took him literally. I’d probably color them dense before I thought they were taking advantage.

I would have just done the adult thing and talked with them about it - telling them that it was a special treat and you can’t extend it every day. I’m sure they would have understood. It’s as much on the Brother as it is on them.

“Company Personnel”??? C’mon. Talk about painting with a broad brush!
 
BillyRay said:
Man…. Put the axe and your grinder away.

The BK story is just human nature on display. In fact…. It’s nature period. Feed a stray cat or dog a couple days in a row. See what happens.

Human beings love free stuff and discounts. Brother said there was a “Pioneer Discount”. He didn’t put a limit on it - like: “Today only…. Pioneer Discount!” Sisters took him literally. I’d probably color them dense before I thought they were taking advantage.

I would have just done the adult thing and talked with them about it - telling them that it was a special treat and you can’t extend it every day. I’m sure they would have understood. It’s as much on the Brother as it is on them.

“Company Personnel”??? C’mon. Talk about painting with a broad brush!
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i left the org with many axes to grind. it took a long time for me to dispense my anger and i do so by talking about it and getting feedback, hopefully no judgmental feedback, but constructive feedback. It’s a process for sure. to be clear, i’ve settled on the leadership for exploiting JWs as it does, and fomenting resentments as such in many cases where the stories are not quite told with truth as a priority.
 
Asadour said:
i left the org with many axes to grind. it took a long time for me to dispense my anger and i do so by talking about it and getting feedback, hopefully no judgmental feedback, but constructive feedback. It’s a process for sure. to be clear, i’ve settled on the leadership for exploiting JWs as it does, and fomenting resentments as such in many cases where the stories are not quite told with truth as a priority.
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I completely respect your reply. I also have a better understanding where you’re coming from. Thank you for your honest sharing.
 
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BillyRay said:
I completely respect your reply. I also have a better understanding where you’re coming from. Thank you for your honest sharing.
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one of my more painful wounds was finding out about 1975 after i left. this, to me at least, was a material fact that would have had a material impact on my decision making process for baptism. looking back, I can only speculate that this information was intentionally withheld from me, but I in no way feel that I was singled out. It’s just a data point in a long list of data points that Watchtower needed to conceal for its own protection, i’m guessing.

I was an adult recruit, 27 years of faithful service and five of those years spent pioneering, and never heard a whisper of a whisper of this until shortly after i left the org in May of 2021. IMO, it’s material misrepresentation, but that’s me. I realize not everyone would agree and i respect that. It took my months to get over. i cried for a few weeks just thinking about what the brotherhood went through during those years. horrifying.
 
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