June 16 2022 Should true Christians associate with...?

LifeLearning

Well-known member
Well in doing further research, here is something appropriate to the topic at Isaiah 43:5-7: “Do not be afraid, for I am with you. I will bring your offspring from the east And gather you together from the west. I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’ And to the south, ‘Do not hold them back. Bring my sons from afar, and my daughters from the ends of the earth, Everyone who is called by my name And whom I created for my own glory, Whom I have formed and made.’”

But another thought is that from my reading of Acts chapter 15, the first century apostles considered themselves as a people called by Jehovah’s name, see Acts 15:15-18: “And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written: ‘After these things I will return and raise up again the tent of David that is fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it, so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, known from of old’”.
One of the things that I have found enlightening in Watchman's writing is how he illustrates that Jehovah allows a deluding influence to exist in the watchtower. They are not prophets and they don't say they are but they try to act like they are. I think that we, the faithful, must use our own reasoning to know what is acceptable to Jehovah and Christ, and unless we understand it completely we will be found lacking. It strikes me that there is a whitening that takes place, as we get closer to the end of this system and as the world becomes un-inhabitable for us, we seek to please him all the more, and we will band together in the pure faith of Jesus.

The watchtower is a tool, like an axe or a shovel. If we are digging something up we need a shovel, but if that digging must take place and there is no shovel, we will have to use something similar and get digging.

Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand. Dan12:9,10
 

SusanB

Well-known member
One of the things that I have found enlightening in Watchman's writing is how he illustrates that Jehovah allows a deluding influence to exist in the watchtower. They are not prophets and they don't say they are but they try to act like they are. I think that we, the faithful, must use our own reasoning to know what is acceptable to Jehovah and Christ, and unless we understand it completely we will be found lacking. It strikes me that there is a whitening that takes place, as we get closer to the end of this system and as the world becomes un-inhabitable for us, we seek to please him all the more, and we will band together in the pure faith of Jesus.

The watchtower is a tool, like an axe or a shovel. If we are digging something up we need a shovel, but if that digging must take place and there is no shovel, we will have to use something similar and get digging.

Then he said: “Go, Daniel, because the words are to be kept secret and sealed up until the time of the end. Many will cleanse themselves and whiten themselves and will be refined. And the wicked ones will act wickedly, and none of the wicked will understand; but those having insight will understand. Dan12:9,10
Nice comment. Thank you.
 

Medi-tator

Well-known member
From my viewpoint as a lifelong carnivore, this thread is akin to eating a bone-in rib eye! Thank you Jehovah and Jesus and you Sisters and Brothers for this very satiating spiritual meal! Non-carnivores can come up with their own comparisons, like a nice plate of stir fried veggies over a bed of awesome risotto!
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Well in doing further research, here is something appropriate to the topic at Isaiah 43:5-7: “Do not be afraid, for I am with you. I will bring your offspring from the east And gather you together from the west. I will say to the north, ‘Give them up!’ And to the south, ‘Do not hold them back. Bring my sons from afar, and my daughters from the ends of the earth, Everyone who is called by my name And whom I created for my own glory, Whom I have formed and made.’”

But another thought is that from my reading of Acts chapter 15, the first century apostles considered themselves as a people called by Jehovah’s name, see Acts 15:15-18: “And with this the words of the Prophets agree, just as it is written: ‘After these things I will return and raise up again the tent of David that is fallen down; I will rebuild its ruins and restore it, so that the men who remain may earnestly seek Jehovah, together with people of all the nations, people who are called by my name, says Jehovah, who is doing these things, known from of old’”.
I have always assumed that there will be others not of the watchtower who will go through to the kingdom. It appears by various examples in the bible, that Jehovah and Jesus look for (or value) a simple, but confident faith, not in knowledge particularly, (thankfully for me), but an affinity with love and appreciation of and in the Creator. Jesus illustrated the issue through Mathew 6, where he states what the content of prayer should be about and which is anything but of knowledge, and so much more about appreciation. I have never felt that knowledge of Jehovah is a requirement above the love of Jehovah but that it is love of Jehovah that fuels the knowledge - and that, such knowledge is “added to us” as the bible says, of the “One having love” (of Jehovah in his heart).

The bible is so true in so many ways, about love being the primary objective of a relationship with Jehovah. Love is that which validates the bible, without which, it would be meaningless in all its glory. The preparation at this time, is not one of stocking food, or knowledge of who is the King of the North, but on the purity of our appreciation for Jehovah, and as human beings, the most tangible and pro-active force in our lives, is the sense of security in the knowledge that our God “wishes none of us to die, but to attain to repentance“. Unless we deny ourselves our humanity, the key that leads to repentance is the love for righteousness, both within ourselves, and in our appreciation and cultivation of the attributes of Jehovah, all of which, command our sense of being primarily within Ourselves. Thus ‘knowledge’ of Jehovah is the integral expression within ourselves of our very existence, our essence, expressed through our sense we know as love. Understanding of Jehovah, is a gift that will be poured out over the endless millennia to come, but our love is of our own making. It is the one thing we own, and which we can give to Jehovah. It appears to be all that He is asking of us. The expression of subsequent attributes of such will follow naturally.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
The bible teaches that the:
*Wild beast
*The Kings off the earth and their armys, who stand in opposition to Jesus
* The false prophet
*and Those who have taken the mark of the beast
Who are killed at Armageddon. See Rev ch 19
So presumably a non JW who doesn't align themselves with the Kings of the earth against Jesus and hasn't taken the mark of the beast may survive Armageddon and be part of the Great Crowd that survives. This is what I am trying to instill in to my non JW friends.
ANTI CHINA COOL AID RATIONALISED
22Mins in for China bit..
Matt has a unique ability to get to the crunch but not without unravelling much historical intrigue along the way....
 
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Medi-tator

Well-known member
I have always assumed that there will be others not of the watchtower who will go through to the kingdom. It appears by various examples in the bible, that Jehovah and Jesus look for (or value) a simple, but confident faith, not in knowledge particularly, (thankfully for me), but an affinity with love and appreciation of and in the Creator. Jesus illustrated the issue through Mathew 6, where he states what the content of prayer should be about and which is anything but of knowledge, and so much more about appreciation. I have never felt that knowledge of Jehovah is a requirement above the love of Jehovah but that it is love of Jehovah that fuels the knowledge - and that, such knowledge is “added to us” as the bible says, of the “One having love” (of Jehovah in his heart).

The bible is so true in so many ways, about love being the primary objective of a relationship with Jehovah. Love is that which validates the bible, without which, it would be meaningless in all its glory. The preparation at this time, is not one of stocking food, or knowledge of who is the King of the North, but on the purity of our appreciation for Jehovah, and as human beings, the most tangible and pro-active force in our lives, is the sense of security in the knowledge that our God “wishes none of us to die, but to attain to repentance“. Unless we deny ourselves our humanity, the key that leads to repentance is the love for righteousness, both within ourselves, and in our appreciation and cultivation of the attributes of Jehovah, all of which, command our sense of being primarily within Ourselves. Thus ‘knowledge’ of Jehovah is the integral expression within ourselves of our very existence, our essence, expressed through our sense we know as love. Understanding of Jehovah, is a gift that will be poured out over the endless millennia to come, but our love is of our own making. It is the one thing we own, and which we can give to Jehovah. It appears to be all that He is asking of us. The expression of subsequent attributes of such will follow naturally.
AMAZING POST BTD!! THANK YOU!!
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
The preparation at this time, is not one of stocking food, or knowledge of who is the King of the North, but on the purity of our appreciation for Jehovah, and as human beings, the most tangible and pro-active force in our lives, is the sense of security in the knowledge that our God “wishes none of us to die, but to attain to repentance“.
I second that... Amazing Post BTD.

A long time ago I came to a realization that I may never understand the finer points in prophecy, but the more important things are easy to understand.

For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known. Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.
1Cor13:12

(the Pharisees) came together in one group. And one of them, versed in the Law, tested (Jesus) by asking: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’
Matt22:34
 

SusanB

Well-known member
ANTI CHINA COOL AID RATIONALISED
22Mins in for China bit..
Matt has a unique ability to get to the crunch but not without unravelling much historical intrigue along the way....
Wow. Excellent video.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I second that... Amazing Post BTD.

A long time ago I came to a realization that I may never understand the finer points in prophecy, but the more important things are easy to understand.

For now we see in hazy outline by means of a metal mirror, but then it will be face-to-face. At present I know partially, but then I will know accurately, just as I am accurately known. Now, however, these three remain: faith, hope, love; but the greatest of these is love.
1Cor13:12

(the Pharisees) came together in one group. And one of them, versed in the Law, tested (Jesus) by asking: “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?” He said to him: “‘You must love Jehovah your God with your whole heart and with your whole soul and with your whole mind.’
Matt22:34
I do not understand prophesy as fully as some here do. I have a problem with ambiguity. I came to the conclusion that prophesy has far more to do with faith, than it does learning. The future is inevitable. We can neither avoid it, or reduce its impact by understanding it. Endurance is our only option, and endurance in faith, the overriding necessity, or key to survival. The prophesy points to a time. If we are unaware of what is going on around us, it does not effect the outcome. It will still happen. Generally, this is what blinds the brothers faithful, in that they believe their hierarchy, rather than take note of what they see and compare that to the bible. The watchtower hierarchy point to a rosy deliverance from false religion, but we know that it will be beyond our comprehension and that as such, faith is the only shelter that we will have. Faith in turn, is based on understanding the attributes of the Father and Jesus. That much is readily available in a clearly emphatic manner throughout, not only the bible, but in creation around us right now. It speaks for its self. I certainly do not begrudge others their intense study of prophesy and it’s rewards, rather I am quite jealous of it. For me, I struggle with buying a can of beans, working out price, verses weight and volume, and relative quantities of nutrition times physical need, or a can of fish divided by species survival rate. My only option is to send my wife shopping and similar reasoning goes in to why I let others figure out prophesy. Left to my own devices, I would still be working on 2Timothy.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
Young Matt Ehret sticks up for Christian principles. What I have learned from Watchman is the spiritual application and from Matt...the secular.
One hour 9 mins in Matt Ehrett unknowingly identifies the disgusting thing!
Sadly Matt, Harley, Helga and Larouche/Organisation/Schiller Institute have their hopes in Glasteagal and State Credit for solution.
 
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SusanB

Well-known member
I've been meditating on this recently. There's something here that does not make sense. If Re 12:13 is referring to a heavenly entity vs 14-16 don't really make sense. If we assume we're talking about earthly representatives of said heavenly entity, why does vs 17 explicitly state that the dragon turns his attention to the remaining ones of her seed? Would that not imply that vs 13-16 are NOT referring to the remaining ones of her seed? Assuming a heavenly organization for the woman in Re 12 seems to defy the logic of the chapter in my mind. I don't have a good alternative. More questions than answers lately.
I see your point and I have no answer. Hopefully Jehovah will reveal it to us at the right time.
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
We know when Dan8:11 describes the KOTN exalted behaviour against Christ 'The Prince of your people'. Also the 'Constant Feature' plus the established place of Christ's sanctuary is taken down! These features are represented where else but within the Organisation that bears Jah's Name?
It was also given to him to make war with the saints and to overcome them, and authority was given to him over every tribe, people, language, and nation.
Revelation 13:7
 

Truth_Seeker

Well-known member
When reports from the east and the north disturb him, he shall set out with great fury to destroy many, putting them under the ban. He shall pitch the tents of his royal pavilion between the sea and the glorious holy mountain, but he shall come to his end with none to help him.
Daniel 11:44‭-‬45
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
When reports from the east and the north disturb him, he shall set out with great fury to destroy many, putting them under the ban. He shall pitch the tents of his royal pavilion between the sea and the glorious holy mountain, but he shall come to his end with none to help him.
Daniel 11:44‭-‬45
Yes! When he hears the reports of about Zion! Zion will be enjoying clement weather. In the tents of the wicked there will be no blessing!
Rev11:6 "They have authority to shut up the sky....so no rain"
 
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