My Conversation with an Elder

[Jahrule]

Pretty sure this "man" they keep referring to is Robert. They likely already know you're here. Perhaps whoever ratted you out mentioned it. They're simply pretending not to know so they can claim Jehovah revealed it to them later. The police often use this method where they withhold knowledge of something in order to trap a suspect in a crime. It can also be related back to the principles of deception and misdirection found in the ancient Chinese text "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu.

One of the key strategies outlined in the book is to appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak, in order to deceive your opponent and gain an advantage. This can involve pretending not to know something or feigning ignorance in order to lure your opponent into a false sense of security or to gather information without them realizing it. By later claiming that the information was revealed to you, you can maintain the appearance of having a supernatural or mysterious source of knowledge, which can further intimidate or confuse your opponent.

 

[Neoluna]

"ratted you out". Hilarious. Ive been ratted out lots of times. When i was younger i would pal around with brothers my age and we would do things we werent suppose to, like every teenager. Every time we would step out of bounds it would be about two weeks later and i would get a call from an elder wanting to have a meeting. I would always get ratted out. One day i was with several young brothers and we were debating about going to buy some cigarettes , i spoke up and said " why would i want to do that, someone here would rat me out and i would be in an elders meeting. Anyways brings back good memories of being ratted out.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

"ratted you out". Hilarious. Ive been ratted out lots of times. When i was younger i would pal around with brothers my age and we would do things we werent suppose to, like every teenager. Every time we would step out of bounds it would be about two weeks later and i would get a call from an elder wanting to have a meeting. I would always get ratted out. One day i was with several young brothers and we were debating about going to buy some cigarettes , i spoke up and said " why would i want to do that, someone here would rat me out and i would be in an elders meeting. Anyways brings back good memories of being ratted out.

And now we have grown adults rattling on us because we spoke out against their idol. These aren’t adults, they’re like children hired as informants to protect what they love. So senseless.

 

[Jahrule]

"ratted you out". Hilarious. Ive been ratted out lots of times. When i was younger i would pal around with brothers my age and we would do things we werent suppose to, like every teenager. Every time we would step out of bounds it would be about two weeks later and i would get a call from an elder wanting to have a meeting. I would always get ratted out. One day i was with several young brothers and we were debating about going to buy some cigarettes , i spoke up and said " why would i want to do that, someone here would rat me out and i would be in an elders meeting. Anyways brings back good memories of being ratted out.

I'm kind of glad I never had to worry about this. I was able to just be a kid without Watchtower getting in the way. My childhood was a blast. The world was so different back then. I used to buy cigarettes with my learner's permit. It's like they didn't know how to add. This was before they wrote "Under 18" on the license, I guess for that very reason. Also you could get cigarettes at the Waffle House in a vending machine. Nobody ever said a word. If I had been a JW back then I would not have made it. I was a pretty bad kid. I'd have slapped somebody. That's why I ended up in military school. I'd give anything to go back to the 80s and 90s.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

Pretty sure this "man" they keep referring to is Robert. They likely already know you're here. Perhaps whoever ratted you out mentioned it. They're simply pretending not to know so they can claim Jehovah revealed it to them later. The police often use this method where they withhold knowledge of something in order to trap a suspect in a crime. It can also be related back to the principles of deception and misdirection found in the ancient Chinese text "The Art of War" by Sun Tzu.

One of the key strategies outlined in the book is to appear weak when you are strong, and strong when you are weak, in order to deceive your opponent and gain an advantage. This can involve pretending not to know something or feigning ignorance in order to lure your opponent into a false sense of security or to gather information without them realizing it. By later claiming that the information was revealed to you, you can maintain the appearance of having a supernatural or mysterious source of knowledge, which can further intimidate or confuse your opponent.

That makes a lot of sense Jahrule, and as we know they’ve been infiltrated and probably trained by those who are experts in that field. And I will surely keep that in mind. But I won’t let myself be fooled by them if I stick to what Jehovah and Jesus said. They are oblivious when you mention anything cited in the scriptures. They seem to have to stick to their book of elder’s rules and at the same time make like they’re helping you spiritually.

Knowing that they aren’t genuine about caring I will just shrug them off. I may even block my number like someone on here suggested. But I will NEVER meet with them for any kind of meeting.

I’d just like to say that I thank you as well as everyone here for all your helpful suggestions and your thoughts about this. I appreciate not having to go through this all alone. Thank you all again.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

Le puedes devolver su opinión con sus propias palabras.

https://www.jw.org/es/biblioteca/libros/ejemplos-de-fe/abigail/

Yes, I remember when we studied that book and thinking out of all of Jehovah’s women servants I wanted to have courage, faith and insight like Abigail. I really loved the example she showed.

Translation: Sí, recuerdo que cuando estudiamos ese libro y pensamos en todas las siervas de Jehová, quería tener coraje, fe y perspicacia como Abigail. Me encantó el ejemplo que mostró.

 

[Jahrule]

That makes a lot of sense Jahrule, and as we know they’ve been infiltrated and probably trained by those who are experts in that field. And I will surely keep that in mind. But I won’t let myself be fooled by them if I stick to what Jehovah and Jesus said. They are oblivious when you mention anything cited in the scriptures. They seem to have to stick to their book of elder’s rules and at the same time make like they’re helping you spiritually.

Knowing that they aren’t genuine about caring I will just shrug them off. I may even block my number like someone on here suggested. But I will NEVER meet with them for any kind of meeting.

I’d just like to say that I thank you as well as everyone here for all your helpful suggestions and your thoughts about this. I appreciate not having to go through this all alone. Thank you all again.

You are definitely not alone. If you remember when mom got sick they only put up a pretense of sympathy by visiting for about two minutes. Then they never bothered to check up on me. They never asked if I was okay. They never called me even once after she died. It's just like scripture says. The love has gone cold. Watchtower has a lot to atone for. But don't let it discourage you. Jehovah is with you. He will be the one who guides you into paradise.

 

[kirmmy]

You are definitely not alone. If you remember when mom got sick they only put up a pretense of sympathy by visiting for about two minutes. Then they never bothered to check up on me. They never asked if I was okay. They never called me even once after she died. It's just like scripture says. The love has gone cold. Watchtower has a lot to atone for. But don't let it discourage you. Jehovah is with you. He will be the one who guides you into paradise.

You too?!?! They did exactly the same thing to me. Well, they actually added in a twist of the knife too, but that's another story.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

You are definitely not alone. If you remember when mom got sick they only put up a pretense of sympathy by visiting for about two minutes. Then they never bothered to check up on me. They never asked if I was okay. They never called me even once after she died. It's just like scripture says. The love has gone cold. Watchtower has a lot to atone for. But don't let it discourage you. Jehovah is with you. He will be the one who guides you into paradise.

Thank you for expressing those thoughts to me. I really appreciate it.
Although I don’t appreciate how the brothers pretend to care. We understand that they’re company men and are starting to act more now than ever.

The encouragement and comfort here on the forum has been much more uplifting than what I’ve had to experience all the years within the congregation because it’s genuine. I didn’t get to know your mom but I read many of her comments from the past and her thinking was like mine. I look forward to meeting her in paradise…and you as well.

I believe you’re a good example and a faithful worshiper of Jehovah.

 

[J&P]

Jehovah's Organization killed Jesus in the first century, so I'm sorry but I remain skeptical of anything men have to say that claim they have Jehovah's authority! In fact they are the most dangerous of all of mankind. No crime in the history of mankind raises to the level of killing Jesus...so I think maybe you should think twice when you say 'Jehovah's Organization'", Jesus Christ was KILLED in the name of "Jehovah's Organization."

Thanks, Nomex, your comment inspired the following paragraph that we are including in a letter we are sending to all members of our congregation as well as friends, JW family, elders and C.O's in other congregations.

"As every Jehovah’s Witness knows we are continually conditioned to believe and accept that this is God’s organization – the only channel He uses to dispense spiritual food. Once that premise is accepted, everything else is categorically rejected under the label of apostasy. Keep in mind this irrefutable fact. The leaders of Jehovah’s 1st century organization committed perhaps the most egregious crime in human history – they killed Jesus Christ. No crime in the history of mankind raises to this level. So, perhaps, we should think twice when we, without reservation, make such an unequivocal commitment to “Jehovah's” Organization.

 

[Citrine]

Thanks, Nomex, your comment inspired the following paragraph that we are including in a letter we are sending to all members of our congregation as well as friends, JW family, elders and C.O's in other congregations.

"As every Jehovah’s Witness knows we are continually conditioned to believe and accept that this is God’s organization – the only channel He uses to dispense spiritual food. Once that premise is accepted, everything else is categorically rejected under the label of apostasy. Keep in mind this irrefutable fact. The leaders of Jehovah’s 1st century organization committed perhaps the most egregious crime in human history – they killed Jesus Christ. No crime in the history of mankind raises to this level. So, perhaps, we should think twice when we, without reservation, make such an unequivocal commitment to “Jehovah's” Organization. Jesus Christ was killed in the name of "Jehovah's Organization”.

I would love to read your letter! Good for you both!

 

[Wide Awake]

your comment inspired the following paragraph that we are including in a letter we are sending to all members of our congregation as well as friends, JW family, elders and C.O's in other congregations.

We just saw on JW Analyzer a Youtube video where he reads a letter a dad wrote to his son and it had so many good points. It did bring his son out of the ORG. It shows an example of a WT article written with a specific timeline and then shows how the online version changed the wording and you wouldn't know unless you had the hard copy. Not sure if it will help you or not but thought it was good for his situation and he emphasized he would support his son no matter what, but the truth should be able to stand up to scrutiny.
We would love to see your letter too if you ever feel like you want to share.

 

[Jonah]

We just saw on JW Analyzer a Youtube video where he reads a letter a dad wrote to his son and it had so many good points. It did bring his son out of the ORG. It shows an example of a WT article written with a specific timeline and then shows how the online version changed the wording and you wouldn't know unless you had the hard copy. Not sure if it will help you or not but thought it was good for his situation and he emphasized he would support his son no matter what, but the truth should be able to stand up to scrutiny.
We would love to see your letter too if you ever feel like you want to share.

So the great crowd is going to heaven? I'm going to quote Nomex and say, "Get behind me Satan!"

 

[Nomex]

Thanks, Nomex, your comment inspired the following paragraph that we are including in a letter we are sending to all members of our congregation as well as friends, JW family, elders and C.O's in other congregations.

"As every Jehovah’s Witness knows we are continually conditioned to believe and accept that this is God’s organization – the only channel He uses to dispense spiritual food. Once that premise is accepted, everything else is categorically rejected under the label of apostasy. Keep in mind this irrefutable fact. The leaders of Jehovah’s 1st century organization committed perhaps the most egregious crime in human history – they killed Jesus Christ. No crime in the history of mankind raises to this level. So, perhaps, we should think twice when we, without reservation, make such an unequivocal commitment to “Jehovah's” Organization.

Sorry for the seemingly delayed response. Sometimes I have to try to take a break by checking out for a day or too, if only such a thing was actually possible.

Any way, I wanted to say how much this actually means to me. It really means a lot and I am so glad I inspired you to include my thoughts on this. I feel like I am in very good company, and I don't really deserve it!

 

[Nomex]

So the great crowd is going to heaven? I'm going to quote Nomex and say, "Get behind me Satan!"

I really enjoyed this video, but what you commented on, as well as a couple other things, just illustrate that so many JW's don't actually have any idea what they think or believe, which is just another indictment of WT. This stupid idea that everyone is going to heaven, well that hinges on a couple of easily provable Satanic lies. First of all, it relies on an "immortal soul." Which means Satan wasn't actually lying because God did know they would not die. The guy admits in his letter he was never a student of the Bile, and I suspect many are not! The second very very significant fact is, if all mankind go to heaven, why did God create the earth, ect, etc...we can go down a long road with that one alone...but there is another very significant factiod.... and that is, why would God create humans with an immortal soul, if they were never supposed to die in the first place? I asked an Evangelical this question, and his answer, "He didn't." Too, which I was left wondering, "Didn't what?" Never got an answer...if I remember right he came back with something like, "we can't put God in a box." Oh, he also believes the earth was created in literal 24 hour days...to which I asked him, "Why would God restrict himself to a 24 hour period for a day, that didn't even exist, until he created it. In fact didn't exist when he began creation!!!" Maybe that's when I got the "can't put God in a box"...retort. Too which I confronted with the fact God cannot do anything, that God in fact created laws...and when he scoffed, I pointed out the bible says it is "IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie." Therefore it's is impossible for God to break his own rules...

 

[PJ54]

I really enjoyed this video, but what you commented on, as well as a couple other things, just illustrate that so many JW's don't actually have any idea what they think or believe, which is just another indictment of WT. This stupid idea that everyone is going to heaven, well that hinges on a couple of easily provable Satanic lies. First of all, it relies on an "immortal soul." Which means Satan wasn't actually lying because God did know they would not die. The guy admits in his letter he was never a student of the Bile, and I suspect many are not! The second very very significant fact is, if all mankind go to heaven, why did God create the earth, ect, etc...we can go down a long road with that one alone...but there is another very significant factiod.... and that is, why would God create humans with an immortal soul, if they were never supposed to die in the first place? I asked an Evangelical this question, and his answer, "He didn't." Too, which I was left wondering, "Didn't what?" Never got an answer...if I remember right he came back with something like, "we can't put God in a box." Oh, he also believes the earth was created in literal 24 hour days...to which I asked him, "Why would God restrict himself to a 24 hour period for a day, that didn't even exist, until he created it. In fact didn't exist when he began creation!!!" Maybe that's when I got the "can't put God in a box"...retort. Too which I confronted with the fact God cannot do anything, that God in fact created laws...and when he scoffed, I pointed out the bible says it is "IMPOSSIBLE for God to lie." Therefore it's is impossible for God to break his own rules...

Comes to show Christendom is very confused.

 

[Nomex]

Thanks, Nomex, your comment inspired the following paragraph that we are including in a letter we are sending to all members of our congregation as well as friends, JW family, elders and C.O's in other congregations.

"As every Jehovah’s Witness knows we are continually conditioned to believe and accept that this is God’s organization – the only channel He uses to dispense spiritual food. Once that premise is accepted, everything else is categorically rejected under the label of apostasy. Keep in mind this irrefutable fact. The leaders of Jehovah’s 1st century organization committed perhaps the most egregious crime in human history – they killed Jesus Christ. No crime in the history of mankind raises to this level. So, perhaps, we should think twice when we, without reservation, make such an unequivocal commitment to “Jehovah's” Organization.

It occurs to me also, that what they accused Jesus of was essentially the same thing WT does when anyone questions them. They react EXACTLY the way the Pharisees did. They didn't call it "apostasy" but they meant exactly the same thing with the charge of blasphemy which they leveled against Jesus as WT does. In other words, they charged Jesus with going against "Jehovah's Organization" with the charge of blasphemy, because Jesus called them out for the lies, etc. And like I have said, the GB would treat Jesus exactly the same way today if he returned in the flesh like he had in the 1st century, because Jesus would call them out the same way he did the first century religious leaders, and if you are so arrogant to believe that Jesus would not have anything to call out the WT for, well that's why you are an idolator. Keep in mind, Jesus would NOT reveal who he was to the GB just like he DID NOT reveal who he was to the Pharisees...not that that would have made any difference.


Oh, and mark my words, the GB will treat Jesus' brothers exactly the same way the Pharisees treated Jesus, if any of them are around when Jesus actually returns!

 

[J&P]

Oh, and mark my words, the GB will treat Jesus' brothers exactly the same way the Pharisees treated Jesus, if any of them are around when Jesus actually returns!

They've already started down that road. Consider the disrespect that has been shown to Br King. They disfellowshipped him - a spiritual death in the eyes of the organization. And for what? "Telling the "truth".