PHARMAKIA

BillyRay

Well-known member
@BillyRay

No worries, it’s all good. 😃

I only posted the article because of the history behind the Greek word, pharmakia that appears in the Bible at Galatians 5:20 and Revelation 18:23. Terms from the same root word appear in Revelation 9:21, Revelation 21:8, and Revelation 22:15. These are typically translated into English as “sorcery” “witchcraft” or “sorcerer.” There are several websites about pharmakia and the history behind it. Ancient Greek uses of pharmakia closely mirror the generic modern English word drugs; the same Greek root word produced English terms such as pharmacy and pharmacist.

Modern use of the word sorcery evokes images of supernatural power and spells; Biblical use of pharmakia doesn’t fit well with such ideas. Rather, the term suggests various forms of drug abuse. Those might include drug use in pagan worship, as an addiction, or as a poison used to manipulate and control others.
Now don’t get the wrong idea, I’m not saying that everyone that takes prescription medicine is practicing pagan worship, I’m just stating the historical facts behind this practice that’s mentioned a few times in the Bible and it’s connection to sorcery and spiritism.

One of the things that got me interested in looking into this…years ago we had an Awake article 1/8/86 pg. 20-21. This was not long after I quit smoking in 1982. In 1986 this article interested me because it pointed out that nicotine is a drug and the use of is unclean, which I very much agree with.

In the Bible such pharmacy is put in very bad company — “the works of the flesh” whose practicers “will not inherit God’s kingdom.”
Due to the magical use of drugs in Bible times, Galatians 5:20,21 translates pharmakia as “practice of spiritism.” The Kingdom Interlinear shows “druggery” as the literal meaning. Another translation uses “poisoning.”

But now one question that came to my mind was how do you differentiate which drug falls into this category? Ok, they say that drugs that alter the mind and cigarettes are bad but pain killers and such are ok?
Granted, I’m not going to dwell on this because I think that in time we will learn more about this. Also read @Jah-son’s first post in the other thread.

The last part of verse 23, in Revelation chapter 18 says “and by your spiritistic practices ALL the nations were misled.”
Notice that the judgement is on Babylon the Great, not necessarily on those who were misled.
Now I may be totally wrong about this, but it gave me food for thought. And I wouldn’t mind seeing anyone’s thoughts on this.

We all good Billy Ray?
Thanks for waiting Jgremillion83, I should say that your post made me think deep and hard about this subject. I don't claim to have any answers. But you'll be able to see how my reasoning, works - and leads to my opinions on this topic, and by extension, my comments on your post. It's okay if you disagree, too. I'm just sharing my thinking is response to your post and question. \

When reading the post, and then seeing it was from you, I pretty much already knew that you posted the article due to the various translations of the word Pharmakia, meaning, sorcery, witchcraft, or sorcerer. The stereotypical "witch" sitting around her cauldron full of bat blood, eye of newt, and toad guts, certainly comes to mind under such circumstances. Or sorcerers and their potions. Or the use of drugs in evil rituals. From what I can see, the negative connotation of the use of the word "Pharmakia usually involves some form of Satanic practice along with the drug use. It appears that he drugs are used as a tool in these practices/rituals - but the drugs themselves don't seem to be the reason behind these evil rituals. They are used as a tool - as a means to an end - whatever that end may be - likely worship of evil - however that's expressed.

Interestingly, in looking at translated definitions, one use of the word Pharmakia is "administering medicines". Now, if all definitions/translations were tied to witchcraft, sorcery, or other evil uses - then why the separate the specific use of "administering medicines"? Wouldn't it just be redundant to list "administering medicines" separately, if they were exclusive to these other evil purposes? Are there other Greek words that can mean two things?

This begs the question.... what about the use of drugs for non Satanic, evil ritualistic practices? Practices that are in no way associated with evil? Or... What if the drugs are used for good purposes - completely opposite from the that of evil? This then makes me wonder - is it the drug itself that is evil? Or is it how the drug is being used, that is evil?

I've seen enough movies to know that there are items besides drugs used in these rituals - goats, knives, daggers, bones, stones, etc.... Each item on its own - away from the ritual - has a legitimate use. Nevertheless, they can also be associated with these evil services.

I remember back in the mid-1980's... My first talk on the TMS.... I started with an illustration: What does a razor blade... a knife... and a hammer, all have in common? The answer was, that each of them could be used for both good, or for evil. I then went forward with examples of how each item could be used for both purposes. I believe that drugs are in the same boat. The majority of what humankind creates, can be used for both good and evil - across almost all spectrum's. And... are the drugs being made today - in labs - ALL evil? Are these modern drugs the same ones that were cooked up by the witches, or sorcerers or devil worshipers? Perhaps some variants of the more illicit drugs. But I doubt you'll see Amoxicillin, or Ibuprofen, or Acetaminophen, or Acetylsalicylic Acid, or any of a hundred other drugs available today, being used during satanic rituals. I doubt that most of these drugs have any benefit in such a ritual or practice at all.

You see - it's got to be black and white for some people. Some drugs have ties to the occult. Therefore, all drugs are tied to the occult. Even the drugs that are used for good, all across the world, every day, by millions of people.

In your third paragraph you mention smoking - and by extension - nicotine, which is indeed a drug. But is it the nicotine that's the problem spiritually? OR is it that smoking is a disgustingly filthy habit? Smoke, ashes, butts, etc... YUCK! So, let me ask you.... Caffeine is listed as a stimulant drug. Yet do you get disfellowshipped for your daily Starbucks run? (I hope not - cause then there is no hope for me at all.) But if you're taking caffeine stimulants for illicit purposes to get cranked, that's a problem.

Now, look at the context in which you mention drugs in paragraph 4. Again, is it the drug, or it's use? In Biblical times, druggery was associated with spiritistic practices - which the Bible warns against. Were there any "good drugs" at that time? I don't know. I wish I could ask Luke. :) I'm sure there were.

In paragraph 5, if you've read this far, you'll be able to already know how I'm going to answer your question. How do you differentiate? It's all in the use. Pain killers can serve a legitimate medicinal purpose. But like the razor blade, knife, and hammer - they can be used for evil as well. So, who is it up to, in order to make those choices? It's us as individuals.

Lastly, you quote: "The last part of verse 23, in Revelation chapter 18 says “and by your spiritistic practices ALL the nations were misled.” Does it even make any sense to you, that taking an Antibiotic to ward off an infection, counts as a spiritistic practice? Only you can answer that. You already know what my answer is.

NOTE: I'm not addressing in this post - the evils and greed of big pharma. Or the fact that some drugs are poisonous to humans. Or that some people abuse drugs. Or that some doctors incorrectly or unethically prescribe drugs that they shouldn't - to the detriment to the patient. Or that sometimes there are hard choices to make as to whether or not a person wants to take a drug. Each of these could be it's own topic for conversation.
 

BillyRay

Well-known member
Dr. Max Gerson cured cancer using organic foods and was murdered, as was the US Congressman who entered the Proteolytic Enzyme Therapy into the 1946 Congressional Record. Cancer is curable in most cased by changing the diet and treating with organic coffee enemas, apricot seeds and eight to ten 16 ounce glasses of fresh organic carrot juice. There are other cures as well, such as Rick Simpson oil and other natural treatments. The problem is that when people, especially parents, hear the "C" word, they shut down and place all their faith in the people wearing the white lab coats. Doctors have been elevated to godlike status thanks to propaganda.

I believe we've been lied to about life expectancy back then, but I can't prove it. When you take out all the childhood/child labor deaths, as well as people living in crowded cites with inadequate hygiene, people lived a long time. i.e. those who lived on the farms and worked for a living. They grew, hunted and raised their food... and before the industrial age of pollution, everything was organic. I really do believe our history books are filled with lies. Rockefeller funded the Americans Historical Society, which went on to produce most of the "trusted sources" we look to for information. He's one of Satan's minions, so I don't trust anything that man and his ilk have created.
There's no way for me to counter argue against conspiracy theory's Carl. It's just impossible. That's because they're conspiracies and are impossible to prove or disprove.

Coffee enemas, carrot juice, apricot seeds, and special oils are going to cure cancer. And the guy who invented a cure, using organic foods, was murdered.

And the universally accepted life expectancy data from around the world is a lie. Our history books are full of lies. (I might agree on the most recent ones)

I guess that I don't have much more to say on this topic. You do you. I can respect that. But I don't buy it.
 
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Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Thanks for waiting Jgremillion83, I should say that your post made me think deep and hard about this subject. I don't claim to have any answers. But you'll be able to see how my reasoning, works - and leads to my opinions on this topic, and by extension, my comments on your post. It's okay if you disagree, too. I'm just sharing my thinking is response to your post and question. \

When reading the post, and then seeing it was from you, I pretty much already knew that you posted the article due to the various translations of the word Pharmakia, meaning, sorcery, witchcraft, or sorcerer. The stereotypical "witch" sitting around her cauldron full of bat blood, eye of newt, and toad guts, certainly comes to mind under such circumstances. Or sorcerers and their potions. Or the use of drugs in evil rituals. From what I can see, the negative connotation of the use of the word "Pharmakia usually involves some form of Satanic practice along with the drug use. It appears that he drugs are used as a tool in these practices/rituals - but the drugs themselves don't seem to be the reason behind these evil rituals. They are used as a tool - as a means to an end - whatever that end may be - likely worship of evil - however that's expressed.

Interestingly, in looking at translated definitions, one use of the word Pharmakia is "administering medicines". Now, if all definitions/translations were tied to witchcraft, sorcery, or other evil uses - then why the separate the specific use of "administering medicines"? Wouldn't it just be redundant to list "administering medicines" separately, if they were exclusive to these other evil purposes? Are there other Greek words that can mean two things?

This begs the question.... what about the use of drugs for non Satanic, evil ritualistic practices? Practices that are in no way associated with evil? Or... What if the drugs are used for good purposes - completely opposite from the that of evil? This then makes me wonder - is it the drug itself that is evil? Or is it how the drug is being used, that is evil?

I've seen enough movies to know that there are items besides drugs used in these rituals - goats, knives, daggers, bones, stones, etc.... Each item on its own - away from the ritual - has a legitimate use. Nevertheless, they can also be associated with these evil services.

I remember back in the mid-1980's... My first talk on the TMS.... I started with an illustration: What does a razor blade... a knife... and a hammer, all have in common? The answer was, that each of them could be used for both good, or for evil. I then went forward with examples of how each item could be used for both purposes. I believe that drugs are in the same boat. The majority of what humankind creates, can be used for both good and evil - across almost all spectrum's. And... are the drugs being made today - in labs - ALL evil? Are these modern drugs the same ones that were cooked up by the witches, or sorcerers or devil worshipers? Perhaps some variants of the more illicit drugs. But I doubt you'll see Amoxicillin, or Ibuprofen, or Acetaminophen, or Acetylsalicylic Acid, or any of a hundred other drugs available today, being used during satanic rituals. I doubt that most of these drugs have any benefit in such a ritual or practice at all.

You see - it's got to be black and white for some people. Some drugs have ties to the occult. Therefore, all drugs are tied to the occult. Even the drugs that are used for good, all across the world, every day, by millions of people.

In your third paragraph you mention smoking - and by extension - nicotine, which is indeed a drug. But is it the nicotine that's the problem spiritually? OR is it that smoking is a disgustingly filthy habit? Smoke, ashes, butts, etc... YUCK! So, let me ask you.... Caffeine is listed as a stimulant drug. Yet do you get disfellowshipped for your daily Starbucks run? (I hope not - cause then there is no hope for me at all.) But if you're taking caffeine stimulants for illicit purposes to get cranked, that's a problem.

Now, look at the context in which you mention drugs in paragraph 4. Again, is it the drug, or it's use? In Biblical times, druggery was associated with spiritistic practices - which the Bible warns against. Were there any "good drugs" at that time? I don't know. I wish I could ask Luke. :) I'm sure there were.

In paragraph 5, if you've read this far, you'll be able to already know how I'm going to answer your question. How do you differentiate? It's all in the use. Pain killers can serve a legitimate medicinal purpose. But like the razor blade, knife, and hammer - they can be used for evil as well. So, who is it up to, in order to make those choices? It's us as individuals.

Lastly, you quote: "The last part of verse 23, in Revelation chapter 18 says “and by your spiritistic practices ALL the nations were misled.” Does it even make any sense to you, that taking an Antibiotic to ward off an infection, counts as a spiritistic practice? Only you can answer that. You already know what my answer is.

NOTE: I'm not addressing in this post - the evils and greed of big pharma. Or the fact that some drugs are poisonous to humans. Or that some people abuse drugs. Or that some doctors incorrectly or unethically prescribe drugs that they shouldn't - to the detriment to the patient. Or that sometimes there are hard choices to make as to whether or not a person wants to take a drug. Each of these could be it's own topic for conversation.
@BillyRay

I did read your entire comment. And I’m only going to respond by saying that I respect how you feel and view this subject. But that’s only your interpretation of it and that’s fine. Some of your comments or interpretation of what I posted are somewhat extreme in paragraph 2 and 5.

I don’t consider myself a fanatic as you no doubt have tried to make me appear to be by your constant and insistant responses. I just look at around me as I see them along with extensive and thorough research whether you agree with it or not.

I thought that I said before that I only wanted to know what others had to say on this thread about this topic and I can respect your view on this like I do about so many others. Tell me, why can’t you accept that? Like I said before, why can’t we agree to disagree?
 
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Arctic Cat

Member
considering how many organizations fill dual or even multiple roles/aspects and that almost always in our society the publicly spoken agenda is a cover for other mechanics operating under that «umbrella» that even goes against the public agenda.. i dont see why one thing would exclude another? especially if you take into context where these systems originated and the motives behind.
 

Carl

Well-known member
"Average Age" can be somewhat misleading when taken through the lens of infant mortality. According to some sources the infant mortality rate was 1 in 4 during the 19th Century. If those figures are anywhere near correct then the average age would be highly distorted.

If you take a walk through a 19th Century graveyard there does seem to be quite a number of children buried there. Then there seems to be quiet a gap til folks hit their 60's. Perhaps that is suggestive of if a person made it through Childhood they tended to live to a decent age.

It's my conjecture that our life expectancy has been falling for some time. I know so many people who have dropped off the Perch in their 40's and 50's. It's very hard to say what the life expectancy of my generation will be (Gen X) since we haven't grown old and died yet so how can we calculate the average?
I listened to an audio recording of an interview a top doctor gave back in the 80's. He was referring to his notes from a meeting of doctors in the 60's. The meeting was held for hundreds of the top doctors in various fields. If I can find it, I'll post it. In this recording he explained how a very politically connected globalist doctor called the meeting to prepare the medical field for the future. The attendees were in direct control of the nation's medical future. They didn't allow notes or any recordings, and served plenty of alcohol. Since this doctor didn't drink, and had an excellent memory, he was able to leave the meeting and write down much of what he heard.

The speaker was a very arrogant and wicked man who told the attendees that cancers would explode, as would chronic illnesses, which would be treated by them with medications. He said vaccinations, and their complications, would explode as well. He told them they would become very wealthy in the process. He also said homosexuality would become common place, and promiscuity would become normal as fashions showed more and more flesh. I believe he mentioned abortion too, I can't remember. It was very eye opening, and there's no way this doctor could have called what we're seeing today 35+ years back... much less 60 via his notes.

There's a community in the Himalayas that reaches into the 100's, who drink nearly chemical free food & water. Our bodies were designed to live forever, but Jehovah cut our lifespan down to 80-120. He did this by somehow putting a timer on our telomeres, which are tasked with repairing the ends of our DNA. People who live the longest have a lot of these structures. The COVID spike protein is attacking them. There are over 85,000 manmade chemicals, many of which adversely effect our bodies, causing illness. In a perfect environment of zero manmade chemicals and a perfect diet providing all the nutrients our bodies need, we would all live to 120 if not longer. The "elites" know this, which is why they detox regularly. They do this via an expensive process called chelation, where their blood is run through a cleaning device, similar to a bypass machine. Add to this the powerful Satanists use fresh baby blood infusions to look and feel better than they otherwise would have, considering their decadent lifestyles.
 

Carl

Well-known member
I thought that I said before that I only wanted to know what others had to say on this thread about this topic and I can respect your view on this like I do about so many others. Tell me, why can’t you accept that? Like I said before, why can’t we agree to disagree?
I don't think BillyRay is being negative, he's just defending his opinion. I'm with you, in that I believe all manmade medications are evil, even if they do save lives. We know blood transfusions save lives, but we avoid them because Jehovah said our life is in our blood. It took science millennia to prove this by showing the blood contains DNA, which defines our unique characteristics. Turns out Jehovah wanted one man and one woman to be perfect monogamous pairs, because women absorb the DNA of their partner, slighting altering them via assimilation. The more long term unprotected partners, the more personality traits a woman takes on. Think about the amount of foreign DNA that's introduced via a transfusion. This also occurs after a transplant. Cancers have been transferred via metastatic cancers cells in blood transfusions.

We were told that those who loved their lives will lose them. What does this mean to me? It possibly means some of those who fight death by going against Jehovah's natural approach, will lose eternal life. How so? I'll use my mom as an example. She's VERY worldly, and will definitely choose the MOTB in my opinion. If Satan offers youth, that's it... cause as a former model, she's a HUGE narcissist, and would sign up yesterday! Add to this that she had a kidney transplant over 10 years ago, and she will choose the MOTB to extend her life if she survives the GT. I know it sounds insensitive, and only my friends here can understand... but I'm praying she and others like her die during the GT, so at least I'll have 1,000 years to convince her to serve Jehovah & Jesus.

I respect BillyRay, and have come to like him due to his honesty and humility. He's so like many who see value in using medications to extend life. I don't judge him for that. I have no problem with science duplicating Jehovah's chemicals, and using them for medication. I do take issue with the any medication made in a lab that's not simply duplicating a natural substance. For example, I use a lots of supplements like Vitamin C... which is made in a lab. I had a patient back about 15 years ago who was a chemist for the pharmaceutical company a couple miles from my old office. In talking he explained how there are impurities created in every step needed to make a drug. So let's say there are 5 steps to make a heart medication. You take 2 chemicals, add a reagent, and poof... a new chemical is created. Add this to another chemical + reagent, and poof... another new chemicals is made. But at each step some small amount of residual other chemicals remain... and it's these impurities that cause the side effects, requiring more medications to treat.
 

BillyRay

Well-known member
@BillyRay

I did read your entire comment. And I’m only going to respond by saying that I respect how you feel and view this subject. But that’s only your interpretation of it and that’s fine. Some of your comments or interpretation of what I posted are somewhat extreme in paragraph 2 and 5.

I don’t consider myself a fanatic as you no doubt have tried to make me appear to be by your constant and insistant responses. I just look at around me as I see them along with extensive and thorough research whether you agree with it or not.

I thought that I said before that I only wanted to know what others had to say on this thread about this topic and I can respect your view on this like I do about so many others. Tell me, why can’t you accept that? Like I said before, why can’t we agree to disagree?
That’s the shortcoming with responding over two dimensional media. You can’t hear the tone of my voice, see my facial expressions, gestures, etc…. I was in no way trying to make you appear as a fanatic. At all! To the contrary. In my first paragraph I was trying to convey that when I saw that you posted the article, I knew why you posted it because of the fine character I see in you, from your other comments here. I obviously fell way short there if that’s how I made you feel.

Yes.. of course we can agree to disagree. I’m totally fine with that. You’re 100% correct - what I wrote is my interpretation of things. Your research has led you to a different interpretation. That’s completely cool.

I was in no way trying to aggravate you. Please accept my sincere apology for doing so. I value your comments and insight on this board very much.

BR
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
“and by your spiritistic practices ALL the nations were misled.”
Doctors have been elevated to godlike status thanks to propaganda.
each of them could be used for both good, or for evil
I believe all manmade medications are evil, even if they do save lives.
Pharmaceutical drugs are analogous to a smartphone.

The computer in a smartphone (the ingredients in drugs) can be programmed to do many things, good and bad. The user has no way to see that programming because it is all mixed together and compiled in a way that make examination nearly impossible. The user must trust that the phone does what the instruction manual says it does.

Drugs and phones can be made in a way that they are wonderful. They can also be made in a way that can be devastating.

The question is not are the drugs good, the question is "do we trust the ones that make them".

With the covid madness I have seen enough evidence that pharma cannot and should not be trusted. They will poison us if their master says to do so, and it is happening.

This is conspiracy, not theory.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Pharmaceutical drugs are analogous to a smartphone.

The computer in a smartphone (the ingredients in drugs) can be programmed to do many things, good and bad. The user has no way to see that programming because it is all mixed together and compiled in a way that make examination nearly impossible. The user must trust that the phone does what the instruction manual says it does.

Drugs and phones can be made in a way that they are wonderful. They can also be made in a way that can be devastating.

The question is not are the drugs good, the question is "do we trust the ones that make them".

With the covid madness I have seen enough evidence that pharma cannot and should not be trusted. They will poison us if their master says to do so, and it is happening.

This is conspiracy, not theory.
@LifeLearning

Wow! I never quite thought of it that way before, but I can understand that technology and the way it’s being used in a very diabolical way especially now.

The devil could easily inspire man to use his capabilities to come up with an invention like this. Even toward the end of 2020 I saw a video with Dr. Carrie Madej who, in her interview explained this very same thing, their plans to do this and how it will be carried out.

Very BIZARRE!
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
I find debating this topic to be pointless, as people have their minds made up. That said, there's always the 3rd party observing the debate who can learn a thing or two.

I can't help but feel this comment was partially directed at me due to my comment on the parallel thread "Pharmakeia." I don't appreciate insults, but I won't respond in kind. I will ask you though, where's your love? Are you a Christian or not? The fact is most internal infections can be cured with colloidal silver or chlorine dioxide, and external infections respond well to raw honey... but since penicillin is natural, I have no issues with it and its natural derivatives, as long as they remain naturally derived. Don't get me started on the applications of vinegar. I just cured my mother's melanoma using oregano oil, as well as using it to cure a spot on my arm... and my sister, who's a RN, is using it on her own skin lesions. My other sister, also a RN, has successfully gotten off of all medications by using herbs, vitamins and minerals. Asthma can be treated with eucalyptus oil, while many mental disorders can be cured using a whole variety of herbs and other supplements. 98% of all cancers are curable. I have chronic kidney disease, but I've been able to reverse it by changing my diet. 12 years ago I was on 8 medications, and was about to go on 2 more, until I started looking into alternatives. Now I take no meds, and feel much better than I did then.

I find that most people are lazy, and would rather take a pill than discontinue their unhealthy lifestyle choices. I know for a fact that diseases like HTN and Type II DM are curable by diet and lifestyle changes. As for Type I DM, that's another story, and I have no problem with insulin, since it's a naturally occurring substance that science simply duplicates. I'm a very black and white person Biblically. Either Satan is or he is not in charge of this system, which includes the medical system... that said, not all who work inside the system are controlled by Satan. Trauma medicine is one example of positive medicine I support. I follow Jesus command to be no part of Satan's world. I made my stand, and I'm living with it.
Well spoken @Carl!! 👍🏼

I appreciate your sharing that information. The more serious problem is that the medical establishment as well as individuals will not take the time to investigate these findings that others have learned on their own. Then when they do observe their findings are credible they‘ll demonize it, calling it ”quack science.”

Interestingly, up until the turn of the 20th century natural remedies were used and allopathic medicine (what we see in use today) was called “quack medicine.” How ironic!

Do you remember back in the’80’s when they demonized the use of tryptophan?? That was outrageous! They’ve done the same with many other supplements, herbs, and other natural remedies. I repeat, they do not take the time to investigate. But that goes right along with the fact that there’s hardly any science to back up that chemicals mixed together to give to the population, in whatever form, can effectively work.

Another rather disturbing report I’d learned about from several doctors was that they’ve never done any kind of studies to show the difference in a group of children who are vaccinated and children who aren’t vaccinated to find out which group would fare better.
Surely you would think they’d want to find that out, wouldn’t you?

All I know is that in the end I believe it will all come out…maybe. One thing’s for sure many more people are learning.
 
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LifeLearning

Well-known member
The more serious problem is that the medical establishment as well as individuals will not take the time to investigate these findings that others have learned on their own. Then when they do observe their findings are credible they‘ll demonize it, calling it ”quack science.”
Even the good doctors are caught up in the madness.

Big Pharma has been at this for a long time, but in the last 20 years they have become complete pariah. They machinate every sort of harm all the time. They scheme what is harmful, as a tool for those in power (Micah7:3)

I will provide one real example as a proof: Pharma has formulated a new drug for migraines. My doctor recommends it to me. Why? Is he trying to help me: I do believe that is his intention, but whether he knows it or not he is doing their dirty work.

Is the new drug good? Should we try it. I refer you to my previous post above on that one, but without even knowing the answer to that, lets look at how you get the meds:

The price for this new miracle drug is $1500 for 16 pills. Oh, that's expensive you say? Well they have some coupons that will make the cost to you just $10.... Except guess what, when you go online to "authorize" the coupon and you click agree to the terms and conditions... guess what you just agreed to.

Dose anyone read that stuff? Well I do. By clicking agree you agree to provide ALL your medical records to them and whoever else they want to authorize. So no need to ask me why I do not trust them.

Interestingly, before looking this up on their web site, I called the 800 number because the coupon was expired right there on the face of it. On the phone they said, oh, that's ok it will still work, you just have to go online and activate it. So I asked "is there any obligation by using the coupon?" The answer was a simple "no".

This rant goes to my original point: I don't trust them, and by extension I don't trust the doctors either, even the good ones.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
That’s the shortcoming with responding over two dimensional media. You can’t hear the tone of my voice, see my facial expressions, gestures, etc…. I was in no way trying to make you appear as a fanatic. At all! To the contrary. In my first paragraph I was trying to convey that when I saw that you posted the article, I knew why you posted it because of the fine character I see in you, from your other comments here. I obviously fell way short there if that’s how I made you feel.

Yes.. of course we can agree to disagree. I’m totally fine with that. You’re 100% correct - what I wrote is my interpretation of things. Your research has led you to a different interpretation. That’s completely cool.

I was in no way trying to aggravate you. Please accept my sincere apology for doing so. I value your comments and insight on this board very much.

BR
@BillyRay

I totally agree that there can be a lot of miscommunication on two dimensional media for the reasons that you pointed out. I was mistaken about what you were trying to explain and took it in another direction. And I do apologize for that and I’m not going to try to make any excuses. I also have to respect for how you view this topic of great concern for so many people.

Then I read @Carl’s comments concerning you, and because I’ve come to respect him and his views on many topics, including what he had to say about you. But I guess I wasn’t getting that same understanding from you.…because when I would read your comments in other threads I wasn’t sure where you were coming from sometimes, to me, some of your comments were a little intimidating. These comments were not to me, just to make that clear.

And so for me, meeting people in person and getting to know them you have an opportunity to get a grasp about the kind of person they are. And as time goes on you interact with them and begin to learn even more about them because of their responses to certain subjects and so on.
This is what I appreciated so much about the ministry. We would usually work with anyone who wanted to get with us. But I don’t want to get too much off topic here, but just to add, that’s where real communication lies.

And isn’t it sad that the very thing we were taught to do in the organization….to learn how to talk to people and communicate, is the very thing they discourage us to do now.

So I do hope that we’ll be able to communicate with a little more insight. Don’t you think?
Your sister, @Jgremillion83
 
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BillyRay

Well-known member
@BillyRay

I totally agree that there can be a lot of miscommunication on two dimensional media for the reasons that you pointed out. I was mistaken about what you were trying to explain and took it in another direction. And I do apologize for that and I’m not going to try to make any excuses. I also have to respect for how you view this topic of great concern for so many people.

Then I read @Carl’s comments concerning you, and because I’ve come to respect him and his views on many topics, including what he had to say about you. But I guess I wasn’t getting that same understanding about you.…because when I would read your comments in other threads I wasn’t sure where you were coming from sometimes, to me, some of your comments were a little intimidating. These comments were not to me, just to make that clear.

And so for me, meeting people in person and getting to know them you have an opportunity to get a grasp about the kind of person they are. And as time goes on you interact with them and begin to learn even more about them because of their responses to certain subjects and so on.
This is what I appreciated so much about the ministry. We would usually work with anyone who wanted to get with us. But I don’t want to get too much off topic here, but that is where real communication lies.

And isn’t it sad that the very thing we were taught to do in the organization….to learn how to talk to people and communicate, is the very thing they discourage us to do now.

So I do hope that we’ll be able to communicate with a little more insight. Don’t you think? Your sister, @Jgremillion83
In my professional life, I've been told (and not by just one person) that I write like a lawyer. I remember going back and forth with one of the corporate business partners I do business with.... It seemed that with every word I wrote - no matter how hard I tried - she felt that I was sniping at her. I finally picked up the phone, and we settled everything. At the end she said something along the line of.. the kindness in your voice and attitude belie your writing style. So I know exactly what you're speaking about, and try to recognize that shortcoming when I see it. I don't know how that came to be. Whether it's my background, education, occupation, personality, or all of the above. I don't know. That said, I do have strong opinions on certain matters - and those a black and white to me - and I will not compromise. The rest is mostly gray.

BTW.... My viewpoint on Carl is much the same as yours. ;)
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
In my professional life, I've been told (and not by just one person) that I write like a lawyer. I remember going back and forth with one of the corporate business partners I do business with.... It seemed that with every word I wrote - no matter how hard I tried - she felt that I was sniping at her. I finally picked up the phone, and we settled everything. At the end she said something along the line of.. the kindness in your voice and attitude belie your writing style. So I know exactly what you're speaking about, and try to recognize that shortcoming when I see it. I don't know how that came to be. Whether it's my background, education, occupation, personality, or all of the above. I don't know. That said, I do have strong opinions on certain matters - and those a black and white to me - and I will not compromise. The rest is mostly gray.

BTW.... My viewpoint on Carl is much the same as yours. ;)
@BillyRay

Now that explains a lot, but not in a bad way….thanks for sharing. 👍🏼
 
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CyndiaS

Well-known member
I don't think BillyRay is being negative, he's just defending his opinion. I'm with you, in that I believe all manmade medications are evil, even if they do save lives. We know blood transfusions save lives, but we avoid them because Jehovah said our life is in our blood. It took science millennia to prove this by showing the blood contains DNA, which defines our unique characteristics. Turns out Jehovah wanted one man and one woman to be perfect monogamous pairs, because women absorb the DNA of their partner, slighting altering them via assimilation. The more long term unprotected partners, the more personality traits a woman takes on. Think about the amount of foreign DNA that's introduced via a transfusion. This also occurs after a transplant. Cancers have been transferred via metastatic cancers cells in blood transfusions.

We were told that those who loved their lives will lose them. What does this mean to me? It possibly means some of those who fight death by going against Jehovah's natural approach, will lose eternal life. How so? I'll use my mom as an example. She's VERY worldly, and will definitely choose the MOTB in my opinion. If Satan offers youth, that's it... cause as a former model, she's a HUGE narcissist, and would sign up yesterday! Add to this that she had a kidney transplant over 10 years ago, and she will choose the MOTB to extend her life if she survives the GT. I know it sounds insensitive, and only my friends here can understand... but I'm praying she and others like her die during the GT, so at least I'll have 1,000 years to convince her to serve Jehovah & Jesus.

I respect BillyRay, and have come to like him due to his honesty and humility. He's so like many who see value in using medications to extend life. I don't judge him for that. I have no problem with science duplicating Jehovah's chemicals, and using them for medication. I do take issue with the any medication made in a lab that's not simply duplicating a natural substance. For example, I use a lots of supplements like Vitamin C... which is made in a lab. I had a patient back about 15 years ago who was a chemist for the pharmaceutical company a couple miles from my old office. In talking he explained how there are impurities created in every step needed to make a drug. So let's say there are 5 steps to make a heart medication. You take 2 chemicals, add a reagent, and poof... a new chemical is created. Add this to another chemical + reagent, and poof... another new chemicals is made. But at each step some small amount of residual other chemicals remain... and it's these impurities that cause the side effects, requiring more medications to treat.
There's a phenomenal docuseries called the "Cult of the Medics" broken up into several episodes/chapters. I have encouraged, begged & pleaded with so many Jw friends + fam to please check it out. It discusses the history of the medical institutions, alchemy, the church, pagan worship, the history of human sacrifice in all parts of the world, the Red Cross Org ( including it's role/involvement in "the blood business" ) and other associated institutions, such as the "Order of the Knights Hospitalers" and other infiltrated organizations, an entire episode titled "Pharmakeia", the covid pandemic, history of vaccines, the AMA, and much more.

People that believe in the Bible will find it esp interesting IMO. I am currently waiting for episode/chapter 8 to drop, as it is an ongoing series. I'm getting ready to watch the trailer for it right now. 🍿 🎬 😋



 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
There's a phenomenal docuseries called the "Cult of the Medics" broken up into several episodes/chapters. I have encouraged, begged & pleaded with so many Jw friends + fam to please check it out. It discusses the history of the medical institutions, alchemy, the church, pagan worship, the history of human sacrifice in all parts of the world, the Red Cross Org ( including it's role/involvement in "the blood business" ) and other associated institutions, such as the "Order of the Knights Hospitalers" and other infiltrated organizations, an entire episode titled "Pharmakeia", the covid pandemic, history of vaccines, the AMA, and much more.

People that believe in the Bible will find it esp interesting IMO. I am currently waiting for episode/chapter 8 to drop, as it is an ongoing series. I'm getting ready to watch the trailer for it right now. 🍿 🎬 😋



@CyndiaS

Thanks for sharing. I remember learning about some of this in another docuseries a couple of years ago. This one looks like it has more information. It should be very interesting. 👍🏼
 

Driven

Well-known member
I find debating this topic to be pointless, as people have their minds made up. That said, there's always the 3rd party observing the debate who can learn a thing or two.

I can't help but feel this comment was partially directed at me due to my comment on the parallel thread "Pharmakeia." I don't appreciate insults, but I won't respond in kind. I will ask you though, where's your love? Are you a Christian or not? The fact is most internal infections can be cured with colloidal silver or chlorine dioxide, and external infections respond well to raw honey... but since penicillin is natural, I have no issues with it and its natural derivatives, as long as they remain naturally derived. Don't get me started on the applications of vinegar. I just cured my mother's melanoma using oregano oil, as well as using it to cure a spot on my arm... and my sister, who's a RN, is using it on her own skin lesions. My other sister, also a RN, has successfully gotten off of all medications by using herbs, vitamins and minerals. Asthma can be treated with eucalyptus oil, while many mental disorders can be cured using a whole variety of herbs and other supplements. 98% of all cancers are curable. I have chronic kidney disease, but I've been able to reverse it by changing my diet. 12 years ago I was on 8 medications, and was about to go on 2 more, until I started looking into alternatives. Now I take no meds, and feel much better than I did then.

I find that most people are lazy, and would rather take a pill than discontinue their unhealthy lifestyle choices. I know for a fact that diseases like HTN and Type II DM are curable by diet and lifestyle changes. As for Type I DM, that's another story, and I have no problem with insulin, since it's a naturally occurring substance that science simply duplicates. I'm a very black and white person Biblically. Either Satan is or he is not in charge of this system, which includes the medical system... that said, not all who work inside the system are controlled by Satan. Trauma medicine is one example of positive medicine I support. I follow Jesus command to be no part of Satan's world. I made my stand, and I'm living with it.
Hi Brother Carl, I saw you mentioned Chlorine Dioxide and thought I relate an experience I find interesting. Since my dog died, I’ve adopted some feral cats that were very sick and scrawney. I started putting Chlorine Dioxide in their water and they look like completely different cats and they apparently love the taste. They are so healthy now. Even one little baby kitten looked like it was taking its last breath and having seizures (completely limp other than the seizures). I forced a little of the diluted Chlorine Dioxide into its mouth a couple of times over a few hours. It was forced to swallow or drown. And, I gave it some evaporated milk too. The kitten fully revived and is running around growing by leaps and bounds today. It eats kibble with enthusiasm now. This experience happened about 10 days ago.

I’ve been taking Chlorine Dioxide too and it has helped me tremendously. My husband is on meds and it may have interferred with his meds and so he had to stop taking it, but I don’t take any meds at 67 yrs old (thankfully). I saw you mentioned the Chlorine Dioxide and I thought I would mention my experience.
 

no way

Well-known member
From the article: “Pharmacy mainly uses a mixture of toxic chemicals, metals, and/or synthetic elements to produce “pharmaceuticals” that are designed to manipulate the biochemistry or metabolic functions of the body in an attempt to get a “desired” affect in the treatment of a disease or sickness. In other words, pharmacy mixes up different types of poison, package it, patent it, and claims that it can treat certain types of diseases.”

The gist of this article seems to be that any and all pharmaceutical drugs are harmful and poisonous. In addition, that there’s a conspiracy behind every drug to inflict harm on those who take them. (I exempt the Covid vaccine from this discussion as I believe that to be on its own evil ground. So I speak only about prescription drugs)

This article ignores the fact that many drugs are concocted from organic sources - plants, trees, animals, etc… Some include chemicals which also have at their root, naturally occurring substances.

Now, this next opinion may reflect my natural tendency to dismiss “all or nothing” propositions - such as found in this article - But there are many people who benefit greatly from MANY different prescription drugs. Thus, to say that every drug is poison, designed to kill you, by the devil, is ridiculous in my opinion.

In addition, prescription drugs have advanced the practice of medicine, which has in turn, increased life spans. Do you know anybody who has has been taken from deaths door, and then added 20+ years to their life through an organ transplant? I do. The drugs required to make this happen are many. Without them, this person never see’s their child get married or meets their grandchildren.

The article also states: “Pharmaceutical drugs never cure disease – they only try to manage it by inhibiting or manipulating a function in the body that is supposed to happen naturally.

They make a statement that drugs don’t cure diseases - then they essentially say that they help the body cure diseases on its own.

There are many examples I could give to refute their argument that drugs don’t cure disease - but let’s talk about two. First, the simple antibiotic. Before antibiotics were invented, any tiny cut could result in sepsis and death. Now days? That tiny cut is nothing but an inconvenience. Antibiotic ointment and a bandage prevent such fatal outcomes. And if they don’t? Oral or intravenous antibiotics are given to prevent death. They don’t cure all…. But they cure the vast majority. Oh!!! Antibiotics (Penicillin) was originally made with a natural fungus - and most today are enhanced versions.

Secondly, the Epi-Pen. Some who are stung by bees, wasps, or hornets have an allergic reaction called anaphylaxis. Without immediate medical intervention they will die. Shoot the medicine into your thigh, and you have a 98% chance of surviving.

Lastly, the article offers this advice. “This systematic poisoning is of Babylon and God’s people need to get out. We need to learn natures way of healing that God approves of through lifestyle and plant-based eating and herbs.”

Sure…. Eating a healthy diet is important, and can stave off illness - or at least delay it. But in our imperfect state, we have issues that have been passed on to us genetically. Diabetes, High Blood Pressure, High Cholesterol, Depression, are just a few of these. There are drugs available to help with all of these. Or? If you listen to that article - don’t take them because they are poison or evil, and then suffer an early heart attack or stroke, or live in the darkness of depression.

People will yell “but they have side effects!” Yes, for some, there are side effects. Most are quite minor and manageable. But like much of life in this system, there are trade offs. You choose what you can live with.

Drugs will not be needed in the new system. And thank Jehovah for that prospect. But in this system, many are needed and beneficial.
You are correct not all drugs are evil. Some are completely necessary. I believe the whole Pharmakia subject to be a ruse. Of course there is the Bibles view that spiritism of goes hand in hand with mind altering drugs. Drugs that the Pharmacy sells are not the kind the Bible is referring to. When I see that "Pharmakia" subject being pushed I just ignore it. We as humans are made of the elements of the earth so that means elements of the earth can be beneficial to us. A balanced approach is always important.
 

Jah-son

Well-known member
There's a phenomenal docuseries called the "Cult of the Medics" broken up into several episodes/chapters. I have encouraged, begged & pleaded with so many Jw friends + fam to please check it out. It discusses the history of the medical institutions, alchemy, the church, pagan worship, the history of human sacrifice in all parts of the world, the Red Cross Org ( including it's role/involvement in "the blood business" ) and other associated institutions, such as the "Order of the Knights Hospitalers" and other infiltrated organizations, an entire episode titled "Pharmakeia", the covid pandemic, history of vaccines, the AMA, and much more.

People that believe in the Bible will find it esp interesting IMO. I am currently waiting for episode/chapter 8 to drop, as it is an ongoing series. I'm getting ready to watch the trailer for it right now. 🍿 🎬 😋



Really good documentary. Thanks for sharing. I just finished the 1st chapter. Its well researched and presented. Ill be looking at the rest of them over the next few days.
 
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