Seven Jehovah's Witnesses killed in Kingdom Hall shooting in Hamburg, Germany.

Watchman said:
Okay, I am done playing by their rules. I have used a few different emails but the WT has blocked me.
(It is possible that these emails are only accessible within the jw.org server. But that doesn't make a lot of sense to me.) Below are some emails of GB and other Bethelites. And there's more where these came from. Please pick one or two and email them a copy of the latest Kingdom Bulletin. Paste the contents of the article and give it a unique title, like How could this happen? Or Why did Jehovah allow murder in the kingdom hall? Or Tragedy in Hamburg. Please post here who you contacted so others do not email the same person. The goal is to generate a little buzz. Your help is much appreciated.


msanderson@jw.org
dsplane@jw.org
sherd@jw.org
gjackson@jw.org
kcook@jw.org
glosch@jw.org
mstephenlett@jw.org
rdemingmoake@jw.org
jekrann@jw.org
wturner@jw.org
kcook@jw.org
jwischuk@jw.org
rwallen@jw.org
ggrizzle@jw.org
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I selected and sent it to -
msanderson@jw.org
 
The governing body are inaccessible. I think that's the correct spelling. They have built up their towers and looked down with disgust at those of us who would serve God. Arrogance can't be combatted. God will have the last say and the governing body of my people will beg the mountains and rocks to cover over them to hide themselves from the great day of Jehovah.
 
BagdadBill said:
The governing body are inaccessible. I think that's the correct spelling. They have built up their towers and looked down with disgust at those of us who would serve God. Arrogance can't be combatted. God will have the last say and the governing body of my people will beg the mountains and rocks to cover over them to hide themselves from the great day of Jehovah.
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6 I planted, Apollos watered, but God kept making [it] grow;

1 Corinthians3:6​

 
MickHewitt said:
Good to hear you on this thread again Kevin: We have both certainly seen things grow over the years.
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It's terrifyingly exciting to see Jehovah's prophecies unfolding before our very eyes.

Hebrews10:​

30 For we know him that said: “Vengeance is mine; I will recompense”; and again: “Jehovah* will judge his people.” 31 It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of [the] living God.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
WONDERFUL TO SEE YOU HERE KEVIN! MISSED YOU SOOOOOOOOO MUCH. 👍👍👍👍👍👍
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likewise and thank you Barnaby...​

Psalm133:1-3​

A Song of the Ascents. Of David.133 Look! How good and how pleasant it is For brothers to dwell together in unity! 2 It is like the good oil upon the head, That is running down* upon the beard, Aaron’s beard, That is running down to the collar* of his garments. 3 It is like the dew of Herʹmon That is descending upon the mountains of Zion.For there Jehovah commanded the blessing [to be],[Even] life to time indefinite.
 
Bk Kevin said:

likewise and thank you Barnaby...​

Psalm133:1-3​

A Song of the Ascents. Of David.133 Look! How good and how pleasant it is For brothers to dwell together in unity! 2 It is like the good oil upon the head, That is running down* upon the beard, Aaron’s beard, That is running down to the collar* of his garments. 3 It is like the dew of Herʹmon That is descending upon the mountains of Zion.For there Jehovah commanded the blessing [to be],[Even] life to time indefinite.
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Just as I remembered you to be!
 
Hamburg shooting update (translated article). They actually did their ecumenical commemoration at which JW were not present.

www-ndr-de.translate.goog

Nachrichten aus Hamburg

Aktuelle Informationen und regionale Nachrichten aus Hamburg von NDR 90,3, Hamburg Journal und weiteren NDR Programmen.
www-ndr-de.translate.goog www-ndr-de.translate.goog
 
Foundation Memorial to the Murdered Jews of Europe statement which is urging the German society to show restraint talking about JW in light of the shooting.
alst.org

PRESS RELEASE: JOINT STATEMENT - Arnold-Liebster-Stiftung

We stand with the Jehovah’s Witnesses who were attacked with brutal violence in their Hamburg congregation on the evening of March 9, 2023. We feel with the
alst.org alst.org
 
alan ford said:
Hamburg shooting update (translated article). They actually did their ecumenical commemoration at which JW were not present.

www-ndr-de.translate.goog

Nachrichten aus Hamburg

Aktuelle Informationen und regionale Nachrichten aus Hamburg von NDR 90,3, Hamburg Journal und weiteren NDR Programmen.
www-ndr-de.translate.goog www-ndr-de.translate.goog
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I confuses me that the witnesses cannot respond more empathetically with their community. I should not criticise I suppose. There is clearly no answer anyone can give to mollify any emotion or reasoning at all in this tragedy, but on every occasion without exception it seems, the watchtower’s prevailing attitude of isolation and segregation reigns supreme and stifles the need for open reasoning in their ministry with the public. The bible speaks of the issue. “The day of one’s death is better than the day of their birth”. Watchtower used to quote this in their various diatribes on why birthdays should not be celebrated, but its meaning is all to do with what has been accomplished in one’s life. At the dreadful and awfully poignant funerals to come the seemingly obligatory salutation to the congregation not to “eulogise the dead” will be intoned, before the values of the deceased will be briefly referred to before giving a witness about the hope as approved by watchtower. They treat the memorial in the same manner. Send out leaflets, attend, warn about mental illness and who should and should not partake. In Russia, witnesses are abandoned to the State, put in jail and silenced and watchtower concern is focussed, on what? Assets robbed by the State in Russia, while they themselves rob the brothers world wide of their Kingdom Halls! Faith has been monetised, traded and diminished in value and this tragedy is a symptom of what is going on behind closed doors in the GB meeting room. The opportunity for self examination will be buried with their victims.
 
Maybelle said:
And you’ve helped me a lot sister ( I think I am right) I joined your Facebook group after being away for a long time and it took a while to digest everything, still am lol 💙
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Did you go by the same name sis? Was it jw end time prophesies? xx 🙂
 
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Watchman said:
No mention of the fact that the shooter was a former attendee. The Watchtower is at least consistent. They are always dishonest in one way or another.
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I wonder what spiritual substance there will be on offer at the subsequent local needs talk and if elders will look to their qualities in the guidance of their flock. Why did he become a “former” member?
 
Watchman said:
It is all about having faith in Jehovah, as Jesus had. Although I had mostly positive experiences while I was associated with JWs it was not until I had a "calling" that everything went sideways, then downhill. Except, now I accept that I have another assignment since my faith is still intact by God's power. By the insight given to me, as I take no credit for figuring anything out on my own, it is possible to go forward in the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses by looking beyond the Watchtower and its many stumbling blocks to the prophecies, which speak to all the matters that are most relevant. That's what Kingdom Bulletin #24 is about. Many don't realize it yet but the mass murder of Jehovah's Witnesses in their Kingdom Hall is a huge stumbling block. Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it.
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I am not sure that one can go forward in the faith of the witnesses and remain within any longer. I don’t know if it is peculiar to my tenuous understanding in that watchtower never satisfactorily evidenced prophesy of the end times, but allowed critical factors of our own involvement to be concealed in recognising where, precisely, the disgusting thing is standing. They directed us look outwardly, and not inwardly. Thus as we looked elsewhere, the evil was allowed to take root within. It reminds me of that which Jesus said at the institution of the memorial “One seated here will betray me…”. Everyone there immediately looked to themselves. Watchtower had us all looking way out into christendom instead of within to those gathered. They still do not see it to this day. Imagine the response if we had been looking inwards. How would Splane ever have been able to leave the studio after his ”extended generation“ comedy act, or indeed, how would the GB ever been able to elevate themselves to usurp the place of Jesus? Watchtower appears dead. It’s purpose now only to be exposed.
 
Robert had posed these questions in one of his comments.
'Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it. end quote.

Now here's what I found in the Bible in relation to some answers directly from Jehovah himself to Moses.

46 These are the regulations and the judicial decisions+ and the laws that Jehovah set between himself and the sons of Israel in Mount Sinai by means of Moses.

18 “‘If, though, despite these things, YOU will not listen to me, I shall then have to chastise YOU seven times as much* for YOUR sins.+ 19 And I shall have to break the pride of YOUR strength and make YOUR heavens like iron+ and YOUR earth like copper. 20 And YOUR power will simply be expended for nothing, as YOUR earth will not give its yield,+ and the tree of the earth will not give its fruit.+21 “‘But if YOU keep walking in opposition to me and not wishing to listen to me, I shall then have to inflict seven times more blows upon YOU according to YOUR sins.+ 22 And I will send the wild beasts of the field among YOU,+ and they will certainly bereave YOU of children+ and cut off YOUR domestic animals and reduce the number of YOU, and YOUR roads will actually be desolated.+23 “‘Nevertheless, if with these things YOU do not let yourselves be corrected by me+ and YOU just have to walk in opposition to me, 24 I, yes, I, shall then have to walk in opposition to YOU;+ and I, even I, shall have to strike YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 25 And I shall certainly bring upon YOU a sword wreaking vengeance+ for the covenant;+ and YOU will indeed gather yourselves into YOUR cities, and I shall certainly send pestilence into the midst of YOU,+ and YOU must be given into the hand of an enemy.+ 26 When I have broken for YOU the rods around which ring-shaped loaves are suspended,*+ ten women will then actually bake YOUR bread in but one oven and give back YOUR bread by weight;+ and YOU must eat but YOU will not be satisfied.+27 “‘If, however, with this YOU will not listen to me and YOU just must walk in opposition to me,+ 28 I shall then have to walk in heated opposition to YOU,+ and I, yes, I, shall have to chastise YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 29 So YOU will have to eat the flesh of YOUR sons, and YOU will eat the flesh of YOUR daughters.+ 30 And I shall certainly annihilate YOUR sacred high places+ and cut off YOUR incense stands and lay YOUR own carcasses upon the carcasses of YOUR dungy idols;+ and my soul will simply abhor YOU.+ 31 And I shall indeed give YOUR cities to the sword+ and lay YOUR sanctuaries* desolate,+ and I shall not smell YOUR restful odors.+ 32 And I, for my part, will lay the land desolate,+ and YOUR enemies who are dwelling in it will simply stare in amazement over it.+ 33 And YOU I shall scatter among the nations,+ and I will unsheathe a sword after YOU;+ and YOUR land must become a desolation,+ and YOUR cities will become a desolate ruin.34

Leviticus26:1-46> https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/leviticus/26/​

 
Bk Kevin said:
Robert had posed these questions in one of his comments.
'Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it. end quote.

Now here's what I found in the Bible in relation to some answers directly from Jehovah himself to Moses.

46 These are the regulations and the judicial decisions+ and the laws that Jehovah set between himself and the sons of Israel in Mount Sinai by means of Moses.

18 “‘If, though, despite these things, YOU will not listen to me, I shall then have to chastise YOU seven times as much* for YOUR sins.+ 19 And I shall have to break the pride of YOUR strength and make YOUR heavens like iron+ and YOUR earth like copper. 20 And YOUR power will simply be expended for nothing, as YOUR earth will not give its yield,+ and the tree of the earth will not give its fruit.+21 “‘But if YOU keep walking in opposition to me and not wishing to listen to me, I shall then have to inflict seven times more blows upon YOU according to YOUR sins.+ 22 And I will send the wild beasts of the field among YOU,+ and they will certainly bereave YOU of children+ and cut off YOUR domestic animals and reduce the number of YOU, and YOUR roads will actually be desolated.+23 “‘Nevertheless, if with these things YOU do not let yourselves be corrected by me+ and YOU just have to walk in opposition to me, 24 I, yes, I, shall then have to walk in opposition to YOU;+ and I, even I, shall have to strike YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 25 And I shall certainly bring upon YOU a sword wreaking vengeance+ for the covenant;+ and YOU will indeed gather yourselves into YOUR cities, and I shall certainly send pestilence into the midst of YOU,+ and YOU must be given into the hand of an enemy.+ 26 When I have broken for YOU the rods around which ring-shaped loaves are suspended,*+ ten women will then actually bake YOUR bread in but one oven and give back YOUR bread by weight;+ and YOU must eat but YOU will not be satisfied.+27 “‘If, however, with this YOU will not listen to me and YOU just must walk in opposition to me,+ 28 I shall then have to walk in heated opposition to YOU,+ and I, yes, I, shall have to chastise YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 29 So YOU will have to eat the flesh of YOUR sons, and YOU will eat the flesh of YOUR daughters.+ 30 And I shall certainly annihilate YOUR sacred high places+ and cut off YOUR incense stands and lay YOUR own carcasses upon the carcasses of YOUR dungy idols;+ and my soul will simply abhor YOU.+ 31 And I shall indeed give YOUR cities to the sword+ and lay YOUR sanctuaries* desolate,+ and I shall not smell YOUR restful odors.+ 32 And I, for my part, will lay the land desolate,+ and YOUR enemies who are dwelling in it will simply stare in amazement over it.+ 33 And YOU I shall scatter among the nations,+ and I will unsheathe a sword after YOU;+ and YOUR land must become a desolation,+ and YOUR cities will become a desolate ruin.34

Leviticus26:1-46> https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/leviticus/26/​

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A massive lesson here Brooklyn: When I first heard of this hours after it happened on BBC, apparently an off duty armed response team leader was just passing by and heard the shots and intervened.....when I heard this I thought wow! I imagined the survivors whoever young or old held their partners, brother's sister's, dad's hand in prayer were saved from a complete annihilation....why stop at 3,4 or 6?
 
MickHewitt said:
A massive lesson here Brooklyn: When I first heard of this hours after it happened on BBC, apparently an off duty armed response team leader was just passing by and heard the shots and intervened.....when I heard this I thought wow! I imagined the survivors whoever young or old held their partners, brother's sister's, dad's hand in prayer were saved from a complete annihilation....why stop at 3,4 or 6?
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It's a small heads up but loud heads up. A message is being sent.
 
Bk Kevin said:
Robert had posed these questions in one of his comments.
'Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it. end quote.

Now here's what I found in the Bible in relation to some answers directly from Jehovah himself to Moses.

46 These are the regulations and the judicial decisions+ and the laws that Jehovah set between himself and the sons of Israel in Mount Sinai by means of Moses.

18 “‘If, though, despite these things, YOU will not listen to me, I shall then have to chastise YOU seven times as much* for YOUR sins.+ 19 And I shall have to break the pride of YOUR strength and make YOUR heavens like iron+ and YOUR earth like copper. 20 And YOUR power will simply be expended for nothing, as YOUR earth will not give its yield,+ and the tree of the earth will not give its fruit.+21 “‘But if YOU keep walking in opposition to me and not wishing to listen to me, I shall then have to inflict seven times more blows upon YOU according to YOUR sins.+ 22 And I will send the wild beasts of the field among YOU,+ and they will certainly bereave YOU of children+ and cut off YOUR domestic animals and reduce the number of YOU, and YOUR roads will actually be desolated.+23 “‘Nevertheless, if with these things YOU do not let yourselves be corrected by me+ and YOU just have to walk in opposition to me, 24 I, yes, I, shall then have to walk in opposition to YOU;+ and I, even I, shall have to strike YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 25 And I shall certainly bring upon YOU a sword wreaking vengeance+ for the covenant;+ and YOU will indeed gather yourselves into YOUR cities, and I shall certainly send pestilence into the midst of YOU,+ and YOU must be given into the hand of an enemy.+ 26 When I have broken for YOU the rods around which ring-shaped loaves are suspended,*+ ten women will then actually bake YOUR bread in but one oven and give back YOUR bread by weight;+ and YOU must eat but YOU will not be satisfied.+27 “‘If, however, with this YOU will not listen to me and YOU just must walk in opposition to me,+ 28 I shall then have to walk in heated opposition to YOU,+ and I, yes, I, shall have to chastise YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 29 So YOU will have to eat the flesh of YOUR sons, and YOU will eat the flesh of YOUR daughters.+ 30 And I shall certainly annihilate YOUR sacred high places+ and cut off YOUR incense stands and lay YOUR own carcasses upon the carcasses of YOUR dungy idols;+ and my soul will simply abhor YOU.+ 31 And I shall indeed give YOUR cities to the sword+ and lay YOUR sanctuaries* desolate,+ and I shall not smell YOUR restful odors.+ 32 And I, for my part, will lay the land desolate,+ and YOUR enemies who are dwelling in it will simply stare in amazement over it.+ 33 And YOU I shall scatter among the nations,+ and I will unsheathe a sword after YOU;+ and YOUR land must become a desolation,+ and YOUR cities will become a desolate ruin.34

Leviticus26:1-46> https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/leviticus/26/​

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Considering what happened with Israel & Babylon, it should be noted that the result didn't happen in a fortnight or 7. This took a while for things to get to this point. After it was all said & done, everything went back to normal until Christ came on the scene. After Jesus was rejected, that was it for the Old Covenant. A few decades later Rome had to do the dirty work & it was the same thing all over again. However, this was for good. The Org today is in a similar situation & when the Chosen are tasked for the final witness against the world, we will have to take sides & the Org will do just as Israel has done (no doubt Christendom & others will act in a similar manner) & they will be shoved aside for good.
 
PJ54 said:
Considering what happened with Israel & Babylon, it should be noted that the result didn't happen in a fortnight or 7. This took a while for things to get to this point. After it was all said & done, everything went back to normal until Christ came on the scene. After Jesus was rejected, that was it for the Old Covenant. A few decades later Rome had to do the dirty work & it was the same thing all over again. However, this was for good. The Org today is in a similar situation & when the Chosen are tasked for the final witness against the world, we will have to take sides & the Org will do just as Israel has done (no doubt Christendom & others will act in a similar manner) & they will be shoved aside for good.
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Yeah! It must be difficult for Jehovah: What is it? How many times has He took such actions?....the flood and the many chastisements of Israel. The cleansing of the heavens is due next isn't it...then His house on earth?
 
MickHewitt said:
Yeah! It must be difficult for Jehovah: What is it? How many times has He took such actions?....the flood and the many chastisements of Israel. The cleansing of the heavens is due next isn't it...then His house on earth?
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This article came to mind:
e-watchman.com

Only a remnant will return to the Mighty God

From the beginning —before the founding of the world of mankind —when Satan originally slandered God, implying that God did not trust His creation and the creation ought to be suspicious of their Creator, Jehovah determined to bring into existence a new creation —something that has never existed
e-watchman.com e-watchman.com
 
I found a press conference in German on the incident. It's a week old but, you can get English subtitles for it.
 
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