Who else is staying? What are your reasons?

@Posstot As I already stated, "We must obey God a ruler rather than men."

Of the Pharisees Jesus told his disciples this:
“The scribes and the Pharisees have seated themselves in the chair of Moses. Therefore, whatever they tell you, do and comply with it all, but do not do as they do; for they say things and do not do them." Matthew 23:2, 3

Right, but that applied to the Jews who were still under the Mosaic law; but now that the faith has arrived, we are no longer under a tutor; for it would be ludicrous for Christians, whom Christ has set free, to subject themselves again to those born of the flesh, with their weak and beggarly elementary teachings of vicarious law keeping that has been superseded by faith in Christ and His accomplished work on our behalf, which is meant to be appropriated by us in faith.

Anyone feeling duty bound by those words is still under the law of Moses and in denial of Christ.
 
@Posstot I'm just wondering Posstot, do you preach the good news of God's kingdom? Do you gather with Christ's congregation? Or do you just spend your time on this forum disagreeing with and contesting the faith of others. Because that is not what Jesus told his followers to do. He told them to preach the good news of God's kingdom. He didn't instruct them to constantly try to get Christians to abandon Christ's congregation and become a broken of branch to be burned in the fire.

Yes, but not the 'good' news of the 'incoming kingdom that is about to take full control of the entire earth' that the WT is proclaiming; I, instead, preach the kingdom that comes after the WT kingdom.

Christ's congregation are those doing the will of His Father, which the WT and their anointed ones are not, because they are telling lies about the God of truth in order to 'please' Him, since they do not know Him, although proclaiming, ironically, that they are the only ones knowing Him - oh what folly of conceit.

This forum is a bit of an arduous but bracing diversion, having me intrigued about the substance and subject of people's beliefs and the reasons for such, more than a desire to cause them to evade the natural consequences of their choices motivated by their hearts desires; it is just that if I were in their predicament, and they in mine, I would hope that they would do the same for me as I am trying, but apparently largely failing, to do for them.

Christ instructed His followers to preach Him as Savior, not those who proclaim themselves to be God's earthly part of His exclusive organization.
 
Yes, if you allow them to; "Do you not know that if you keep presenting yourselves to anyone as slaves to obey him, you are slaves of him because you obey him?" Ro 6:16

" . . . and that [Jesus] might emancipate all those who for fear of death were subject to slavery all through their lives," Heb 2:15

"For such freedom Christ set us free; therefore stand fast, and do not let yourselves be confined again in a yoke of slavery." Gal 5:1
It is certainly true that the GB would have no power at all if they were ignored. We can see the evidence for that in that their reasoning grows ever more bizarre each time they need to cover their error over, such as the ‘generation’ comic opera they staged to their own embarrassment.

It is only by our blind consent that they hold such power and that consent is given them because the lie has been permitted, something that the deluded do not see. Also, as a tangent to that, because they cede responsibility for their belief and conduct to the GB, the bible rightly says that they will share in the responsibility. Thus, there is a time to leave, and that leaving must be based on faith if it is to have any value. Lot‘s wife was evidence of that.
If that is the case then, it stands to reason that there will come a time when attendance at the hall is ill advised, and a tangent to that would include guilt by association by the onlooking of others. The Russians gave us insight into that consideration of events. However, the essence of that is well documented in USA law, and in Britain for that matter. Therefore, to the faithful one taking up the sacrifice, they would not wish to be seen as part of the watchtower in any way that may give the lie to their own witness by which they make their stand for Christ.

When such a time comes, one is advised to “be discerning”; an indication I suppose, to a degree of faith or purpose, but Jehovah is the judge for that. The variable issue in all of this question though is the heart motivation - but the obligation to that motivation is wisdom, is it not?
 
Were Jesus and his disciples aiding and abetting the Pharisees by attending God's temple in Jerusalem and making sacrifices there? Or were they worshipping Jehovah God?

No, but they got themselves kicked out for speaking the truth about Jesus, which is more than what can be said about the 20,000 odd anointed ones attending the synagogue of the WT today, not to speak of the 8+ million non-anointed who are mum when it comes to speaking up for the truth they cannot help but knowing.

As to worshiping Jehovah in the midst of deception - I always was under the impression that He was the God of truth; maybe I am mistaken, my bad.
 
Yes, but not the 'good' news of the 'incoming kingdom that is about to take full control of the entire earth' that the WT is proclaiming; I, instead, preach the kingdom that comes after the WT kingdom.

Christ's congregation are those doing the will of His Father, which the WT and their anointed ones are not, because they are telling lies about the God of truth in order to 'please' Him, since they do not know Him, although proclaiming, ironically, that they are the only ones knowing Him - oh what folly of conceit.

This forum is a bit of an arduous but bracing diversion, having me intrigued about the substance and subject of people's beliefs and the reasons for such, more than a desire to cause them to evade the natural consequences of their choices motivated by their hearts desires; it is just that if I were in their predicament, and they in mine, I would hope that they would do the same for me as I am trying, but apparently largely failing, to do for them.

Christ instructed His followers to preach Him as Savior, not those who proclaim themselves to be God's earthly part of His exclusive organization.
I can understand why some may find the path arduous, but for me, I find it a thought provoking meal of consideration. It’s true though that the need to be correct gets in the way sometimes, but that does not inhibit the flow of experience that comes from each contributor to the site, no matter how difficult that may be to wade through. I know I aggravate some though I try not to. The world is full of split infinitives of opinion, but as you eloquently show, such sharpens our own understanding of the Word. If we all agreed, we might just as well call this Site ”Watchtower R Us” and agree with every thought each one of us offers as is the norm for WT meetings. That would only make it an homogeneous dough of inequity similar to that which the watchtower has made for itself. I rather look forward to reading your opinion, as it gives me much to contemplate and offers much in terms of faith.
 
It is certainly true that the GB would have no power at all if they were ignored. We can see the evidence for that in that their reasoning grows ever more bizarre each time they need to cover their error over, such as the ‘generation’ comic opera they staged to their own embarrassment.

It is only by our blind consent that they hold such power and that consent is given them because the lie has been permitted, something that the deluded do not see. Also, as a tangent to that, because they cede responsibility for their belief and conduct to the GB, the bible rightly says that they will share in the responsibility. Thus, there is a time to leave, and that leaving must be based on faith if it is to have any value. Lot‘s wife was evidence of that.
If that is the case then, it stands to reason that there will come a time when attendance at the hall is ill advised, and a tangent to that would include guilt by association by the onlooking of others. The Russians gave us insight into that consideration of events. However, the essence of that is well documented in USA law, and in Britain for that matter. Therefore, to the faithful one taking up the sacrifice, they would not wish to be seen as part of the watchtower in any way that may give the lie to their own witness by which they make their stand for Christ.

When such a time comes, one is advised to “be discerning”; an indication I suppose, to a degree of faith or purpose, but Jehovah is the judge for that. The variable issue in all of this question though is the heart motivation - but the obligation to that motivation is wisdom, is it not?

'Out of the mouth of Poms Thou hast furnished praise.' ;)
 
I don't discourage fellowship at all, but just note that acquiescence in the face of lies being taught in any fellowship equates to complicity with such evils, and culpability before the God of truth, who is also a consuming fire.
That’s an interesting thought about acquiescence. Being present, can represent compliance and a belief amongst others that we believe as they do. Which is untrue. That is a conundrum, though even in my mind, is a bit extreme, but truth is not subject to conundrum in the same way is it? But then, what of the scripture “cautious as a serpent, innocent as a dove”? It seems motive is key, but motive is subject to pressure and needs to be informed. Difficult in this age.
 
I am staying in the organization for as long as I can, barring them actually kicking me out. I have a couple reasons. Most of them Robert spoke about in one of his videos - the need for fellowship, the need for structure, etc. One of my reasons is very personal. My sister faded years ago after she committed adultery. I saw this destroy my mother emotionally. It still hurts her horribly. She is a true believer in the organization-as-God's-mouthpiece. If I were to leave or to be DF'd as an "apostate", it would ravage her. She is not capable of seeing the truth right now. I simply cannot do that to her.

If you're staying, what are your reasons?
I have considered going back..... but now knowing what is really going on within the organisation, I don't know. Of course, Jehovah is using it to tell the world about him and his kingdom or rather (was). Perhaps the world will get so bad that it'll give people the chance to preach the good news in (ALL) the inhabited earth. Because if WW3 kicks off, COVID will become non-existent.
 
Every single one of Christs apostles thought he was going to begin reigning on earth 2,000 years ago right up until he was killed. I guess Jesus was complicit with evil. "be kind to yourself Lord, you won't have this fate at all."
That’s true, the apostles did think that was so. But is it that straightforward? Here is the human representative of the infinitely powerful creator of all things, explaining to plain human beings with none of the technological insight that we have, the shape of things to come. An entirely rural domesticity of living that we can only dream of now was their reality. Jesus was a teacher, and what better way to teach, than by example. The fact that Jesus was to die, the most gruesome of deaths, his purpose in demonstrating his resurrection and critically it’s entire meaning, was to say the least, elevated by his disciples ignorance in their thinking that his kingdom was to be established there and then. Who would not think so? What did they have to reason with in terms of a spiritual mirror or example. But that, did it not, become clear when he was raised from the dead and appeared and ascended before them? So indeed, there was reason for allowing the question to rise the minds of his followers, so that his answer could be so infallibly and demonstratively demonstrated.
 
the need to be correct gets in the way sometimes

This need seems to arise because of our identifying with our beliefs, instead of acknowledging that they reveal who we are, or think we are - or want to be - which would be a more humble and telling estimation of our limitations in the sight of Jehovah, who eventually will become all things to us beyond the end of the 1000 years, the One who invented us in His image, but left the choice to us, to allow Him to implement it fully in us.
 
. . . motive is key . . .

This is it: and there are only two parties privy to it: the person concerned and Jehovah, and that is all that counts when it comes to the estimation of a person before God, Who is all that matters; so why worry what others think?

Once we realize this, we can truly, and like little children, be really ourselves, instead of having to conform to the expectations and approval of others, who do not matter at all.
 
I have considered going back..... but now knowing what is really going on within the organisation, I don't know. Of course, Jehovah is using it to tell the world about him and his kingdom or rather (was). Perhaps the world will get so bad that it'll give people the chance to preach the good news in (ALL) the inhabited earth. Because if WW3 kicks off, COVID will become non-existent.
It seems that watchtower’s diminishing role is receding pro-rata with the rise in the threat of war.
 
This need seems to arise because of our identifying with our beliefs, instead of acknowledging that they reveal who we are, or think we are - or want to be - which would be a more humble and telling estimation of our limitations in the sight of Jehovah, who eventually will become all things to us beyond the end of the 1000 years, the One who invented us in His image, but left the choice to us, to allow Him to implement it fully in us.
That is quite a statement to assimilate. Where does one draw the line between identifying with our beliefs and who we should be. Can we see beyond ourselves in honesty? I sometimes wonder if the human ego has the ability to divest of self to the degree required. Perhaps that is a factor that Jehovah looks for in the anointed. I was going to say that I can’t see that quality in the anointed that I know of, but then, that is the very fault you allude to! Looking beyond ourselves and others in search of truth….if the tribulation does not come soon, we will surely regress beyond the point of salvation. Maybe Jehovah’s promise to intervene otherwise no flesh will survive is applicable to us in that area as well.
 
I have to disagree with the notion all early Christians believed the end would be in there own life time undoubtedly many did but some writers in the early third century thought it'd be around 500 AD ironically for the same reason 1975 was pushed by the society the early Christians thought five hundred ad would be the six thousandth year of human history.

As for a Christian observing the law as misguided as Justin Martyr saw mosaic law observing Christians as he took no offense in them and felt free to have fellowship so long as they did not claim observance is either a requirement for Christians or negating the ransom by attributing to it salvational importance
 
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I'm in the minority in this group when it comes to prophetic issues. I believe that the Jews are still God's Chosen, as Paul stated in Romans 11 that the Jews have NOT been rejected. So Ezekiel 38, has more to do with the Nation of Israel than it does with Spiritual Israel.

RR
Just curious, if you were to look, where would you find Gods chosen in todays world? Israel?
 
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