Wisdom of God

This is as good a time as any to insert a phrase that I coined "Time pertains only to that which had a beginning"
Jehovah is not affected by time. He is timeless. Jehovah is. He had no beginning and he will be here always. The Word, The only begotten Son is the reference point of what we perceive as time. The Gregorian system didn't kick in until it did, but God's Son was the beginning of time. Not sure I would go so far and say that Jehovah's past present and future is simultaneous.
 
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Nomex said:
Exactly. However, one of the best things that i think that came out of WT, is that Jehovah's ability to see the future is something he can chose to use. In other words it's an ability but it's like running. You can chose to run, or you can chose to walk, or you can chose to do nothing. When God created mankind he chose nothing, when Satan and Adam and Eve rebelled, he chose to use is ability to foresee the future. This is how you can explain that he can foresee the future but did not create foreordained creation. And it is a very good explanation.
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Some of the points you bring are explained in @Cristo's article, I recommend reading it it's very well written.

As far as Jehovah being outside of time...I understand that understanding, i just don't agree with it. Me and the "Dog" have been back and forth about it, with him loosing badly. (He'll never admit it, but he did...LOOSE! LOL). I'll leave that for another thread perhaps. I think time is linear. I think it exists, and if it did not exist prior to creation, the act of creation created time! Including linear time for Jehovah. But time would not mean the same thing to Jehovah since he is eternal. But time exists to every created being, so therefore it must exist to Jehovah since he created it. Let me put it another way, when Jehovah began creation, he created a beginning, therefore he created time. Saying time does not exist to him, would be like saying he exists outside of creation, as if creation has no meaning to the Creator!
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I think since Jehovah created time it is subject to him. I don't think that it doesn't exist to him, just that he is outside of it.
Here is the interesting vid I saw few days back that tries to explore the idea of time. I think it's worth watching. Don't let the title fool you, though.


 
We may not understand the "how" of his existence we are not tooled it seems to comprehend his acasuality but honest logic naturally leads one to an intelligent acasual first cause nevertheless. We've got three eternal things you could say 1. Jehovah's consciousness 2. His energy 3. The heaven of heavens essentially his body for lack of a better term. Given focus compresses charge its very possible in a scenario where the four forces are undifferentiated as the unified field/quantum gravity in the unfathomably energy saturated environment of his realm that the first primordial chaoskampf was him gaining control over all that energy actualizing his potential you could say harnessing his mind as a source of quantum gravitation negentropically over the span of an infinite sequence of thought such that no matter how far we are in the future we will always be closer to the begetting than the begetting to the for all intents and purposes nonexistant other end. Every heartbeat you could say of this omniversal engine he has going (planc second) since the begetting he's emitting/externalizing enough vacuum energy isolated from us in the space time fabric to spawn quintillions of big bangs if he wanted.
 
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I think I get the gist of what you're saying, but would appreciate if you translate it to plebe language 😁 I do recognize the chaoskampf concept and my gnosticism flags are popping up again... It seems to me you're saying that Jehovah needs to gain control over chaos that he created? To me that sounds a bit out there. I think what he created is so elegant.
 
alan ford said:
I think I get the gist of what you're saying, but would appreciate if you translate it to plebe language 😁 I do recognize the chaoskampf concept and my gnosticism flags are popping up again... It seems to me you're saying that Jehovah needs to gain control over chaos that he created? To me that sounds a bit out there. I think what he created is so elegant.
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Nope I'm talking the ancient definition of chaos as the raw material everything comes from unactualized potential in a low state of negentropy. Say E=MC2 for example matter is reducible to energy hence energy in a higher state of order actualizing a form of it's potentiality. Like the material to build your house before it's assembled. As for gaining control yes but this "chaos" is uncreated his own energy that in the zero dimension its not that different from someone developing control of their own muscles or going to the gym what one would call Jehovah's spirit as I see it is essentially domesticated chaos. I believe that his mind had to reach a level of control of at least a pinch over 50% of his infinite potential to be able to externalize Jesus from himself. Chaoskampf elements are in the bible and in multiple contemporary near east cultures thousands of years before Simon Magus so I'm certainly at a loss to see any connection that's been read in to my last post.
 
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The God Pill said:
Nope I'm talking the ancient definition of chaos as the raw material everything comes from unactualized potential in a low state of negentropy. Say E=MC2 for example matter is reducible to energy hence energy in a higher state of order reaching actualizing of form of it's potentiality. Like the material to build your house before it's assembled. As for gaining control yes but this "chaos" is uncreated his own energy that in the zero dimension its not that different from someone developing control of their own muscles or going to the gym what one would call Jehovah's spirit as I see it is essentially domesticated chaos. I believe that his mind had to reach a level of control of at least a pinch over 50% of his infinite potential to be able to externalize Jesus from himself. Chaoskampf elements are in the bible and in multiple contemporary near east cultures thousands of years before Simon Magus so I'm certainly at a loss to see any connection that's been read in to my last post.
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No offense but I find it hard to comprehend some of the ideas you use. I'm not well versed in these theories but have a level understanding of basic concepts. So it's a bit hard to follow. I disagree with the idea of Jehovah trying to gain control over his own energy. First of all the concept doesn't exist in scripture, save for the instance in Genesis 1:2 if you really want to stretch it. I just find it strange that you are trying to incorporate such ideas in the scripture. But then again maybe I am totally missing the point.
 
I found why in the Greek it uses different words for the adversary being the ruler of etc there's a hebrew word Olam that has more than one meaning it seems to me whichever people translated the NT scrolls to Greek in the first century used different Greek words from one another in translating olam. Given the enemy did not rule the world until the 70-72 princes became corrupt some point in the centuries after Babel and we don't know at what point they had all subordinated themselveves to the devil perhaps as late as the Roman empire (I vaguely recall reading a Jewish text a few years ago associating him with it) perhaps his aeonis duration is roughly that of a month of the Great year
 
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