If you claim to be Anointed. How do you know? Really How?

Joel

Well-known member
I appreciate your response. My additional question is: do scientists today understand all about human DNA? Or, is it only on the basis of the knowledge of DNA that Jehovah can know all about the person? DNA could be just the start...:) However, in Galatians 1:15 apostle Paul did not elaborate, so why should we...:)
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I appreciate your response. My additional question is: do scientists today understand all about human DNA? Or, is it only on the basis of the knowledge of DNA that Jehovah can know all about the person? DNA could be just the start...:) However, in Galatians 1:15 apostle Paul did not elaborate, so why should we...:)
Thanks for your reply. You ask hard questions to answer. Speculation has its place. It is a critical part of decision-making, but needs to be based on fact. Speculation of itself as a foundation is just a wandering of thought. A prime example of late is the vaccine. As the bible relates - I can’t give you the scripture, only by memory, such as it is - we should not be carried away by distractions, yet having said that, viewing the larger picture of the vaccine, there are some facts that are self evident, ergo, Speculation = day dreams. Speculation = the CERN laboratory and the discovery of the particulate of creation. It’s semantics, yet because of our DNA (in part) speculation is part of our inquisitive nature.

I do not know if Jehovah can know our inbuilt responsibility of mind via DNA inspection. Clearly, there are other factors that determine our judgement that are unique to us. I assume this to be so, as Jehovah will by-pass our actions to read the intent. (Miserable man that I am, for what I do, is what I should not do). Thus there is no need to print automatons through designer label DNA and it may be a construct that Jehovah chooses to ignore for the sake of impartiality which in itself, is a critical part of judgement. There are scriptures that point to this (forgive my memory) such as the day of one’s death is better than the day of his birth. Why that is so, is elementary and proves the point of impartiality in judgement and negates the need to read the numerical construct of the most intricate systems of all creation. Likewise, it allows for repentance, which if so, in turn allows for forgiveness. This of course does not rule out the creator being able to foresee, rather than know, the outcome. I do not know how to describe the process of reading the heart, only that to do so involves impartiality as it includes all the construct that effects our mental development. The answer then to Jehovah reading DNA: There is nothing impossible for Jehovah, therefore the answer to our thinking, if we are to remain impartial, lies elsewhere and going down that road will lead into pointless speculation because the answer is not within our reasoning. (That does not of course, rule out that some people may be able to give a better reason to do so!)

The fact that Paul did not speculate in my thinking, is straightforward and contained in the scripture itself. “Do not add to, or take away from, what is written, on pain of death”. If we believe the scripture, then we must accept that Paul was inspired and wrote only that which was given him to record and not to add from his own knowledge base. I base my understanding of that on the fact that Jehovah also had recorded, that for those chosen who speak for Him before kings and judges, will have their responses given to them. They are not left to articulate for themselves.

Insofar as man understanding DNA, they are looking at the finished product, rather than its elements. We know about the bacterial motors that build DNA but not how they themselves are formed. Were they to describe how bacterial motors are built, would only lead to the further questions of how those elements gather together to form a living, intelligent motor that can walk and convey the chemical needs of DNA to its correct place within the chain.

In pondering this fact, I came to the conclusion that life is a separate entity to the body that has grown up around it. I base this thinking on the scripture where is relates that Jehovah formed Adam from the elements of the earth and ‘breathed life into his nostrils“. Two separate processes and recorded so for a reason. It appears to me that the body is animated by life, not that the body is itself, life. The two are separate, though clearly self sustaining. The body supports life only whilst it has the ability to do so. The body cannot sustain life past its “sell-by” date, of three-score years and ten, only by great strength can it do so to a greater age the bible tells us. How can it be otherwise if flesh cannot inherit the kingdom, yet the sense of being, remain alive when elevated to the heavens? If anything answers your question about the issues of DNA and it’s apparent analytical thinking processes, then it is this. Jehovah is life. He makes the point quite clearly. Life has been inherited from Adam, and it is reasonable (to me at least) to assume that that entity of life passed down to us is the unbroken chain of life from Jehovah. That in itself would answer your question whether Jehovah can read DNA. Maybe, maybe not, but He would be aware to the full extent of the part of His life source that sustains our body from its conception onwards. As Jehovah points out, “Better the day on ones’s death, than the day of his birth.” He tells us that this life source is within our blood, and that it “must be returned to Him”, poured out upon the earth and covered over. We view that as symbolic, but I am not so sure that it is. It is a gesture available to us, to acknowledge the sanctity of the source of life. Though DNA provides the means whereby we experience life, it is not life in itself and in fact, every last cell of it is replicated over and again during our life. DNA degrades until it can no longer sustain the life force within it. But does life cease to exist, or is it that it is left without our personal reasoning, inert, when the body dies and like every other energy force, translates into a different form? The reproductive cell of life is alive before it ever reaches that of the female which of itself, is inert. Thus the element of life is handed over in a chain reaction, leaving us perhaps, to the conclusion that DNA does not provide life, but enables or disables, how we experience life and that life itself, is a constant?
 

Joel

Well-known member
Thanks for your reply. You ask hard questions to answer. Speculation has its place. It is a critical part of decision-making, but needs to be based on fact. Speculation of itself as a foundation is just a wandering of thought. A prime example of late is the vaccine. As the bible relates - I can’t give you the scripture, only by memory, such as it is - we should not be carried away by distractions, yet having said that, viewing the larger picture of the vaccine, there are some facts that are self evident, ergo, Speculation = day dreams. Speculation = the CERN laboratory and the discovery of the particulate of creation. It’s semantics, yet because of our DNA (in part) speculation is part of our inquisitive nature.

I do not know if Jehovah can know our inbuilt responsibility of mind via DNA inspection. Clearly, there are other factors that determine our judgement that are unique to us. I assume this to be so, as Jehovah will by-pass our actions to read the intent. (Miserable man that I am, for what I do, is what I should not do). Thus there is no need to print automatons through designer label DNA and it may be a construct that Jehovah chooses to ignore for the sake of impartiality which in itself, is a critical part of judgement. There are scriptures that point to this (forgive my memory) such as the day of one’s death is better than the day of his birth. Why that is so, is elementary and proves the point of impartiality in judgement and negates the need to read the numerical construct of the most intricate systems of all creation. Likewise, it allows for repentance, which if so, in turn allows for forgiveness. This of course does not rule out the creator being able to foresee, rather than know, the outcome. I do not know how to describe the process of reading the heart, only that to do so involves impartiality as it includes all the construct that effects our mental development. The answer then to Jehovah reading DNA: There is nothing impossible for Jehovah, therefore the answer to our thinking, if we are to remain impartial, lies elsewhere and going down that road will lead into pointless speculation because the answer is not within our reasoning. (That does not of course, rule out that some people may be able to give a better reason to do so!)

The fact that Paul did not speculate in my thinking, is straightforward and contained in the scripture itself. “Do not add to, or take away from, what is written, on pain of death”. If we believe the scripture, then we must accept that Paul was inspired and wrote only that which was given him to record and not to add from his own knowledge base. I base my understanding of that on the fact that Jehovah also had recorded, that for those chosen who speak for Him before kings and judges, will have their responses given to them. They are not left to articulate for themselves.

Insofar as man understanding DNA, they are looking at the finished product, rather than its elements. We know about the bacterial motors that build DNA but not how they themselves are formed. Were they to describe how bacterial motors are built, would only lead to the further questions of how those elements gather together to form a living, intelligent motor that can walk and convey the chemical needs of DNA to its correct place within the chain.

In pondering this fact, I came to the conclusion that life is a separate entity to the body that has grown up around it. I base this thinking on the scripture where is relates that Jehovah formed Adam from the elements of the earth and ‘breathed life into his nostrils“. Two separate processes and recorded so for a reason. It appears to me that the body is animated by life, not that the body is itself, life. The two are separate, though clearly self sustaining. The body supports life only whilst it has the ability to do so. The body cannot sustain life past its “sell-by” date, of three-score years and ten, only by great strength can it do so to a greater age the bible tells us. How can it be otherwise if flesh cannot inherit the kingdom, yet the sense of being, remain alive when elevated to the heavens? If anything answers your question about the issues of DNA and it’s apparent analytical thinking processes, then it is this. Jehovah is life. He makes the point quite clearly. Life has been inherited from Adam, and it is reasonable (to me at least) to assume that that entity of life passed down to us is the unbroken chain of life from Jehovah. That in itself would answer your question whether Jehovah can read DNA. Maybe, maybe not, but He would be aware to the full extent of the part of His life source that sustains our body from its conception onwards. As Jehovah points out, “Better the day on ones’s death, than the day of his birth.” He tells us that this life source is within our blood, and that it “must be returned to Him”, poured out upon the earth and covered over. We view that as symbolic, but I am not so sure that it is. It is a gesture available to us, to acknowledge the sanctity of the source of life. Though DNA provides the means whereby we experience life, it is not life in itself and in fact, every last cell of it is replicated over and again during our life. DNA degrades until it can no longer sustain the life force within it. But does life cease to exist, or is it that it is left without our personal reasoning, inert, when the body dies and like every other energy force, translates into a different form? The reproductive cell of life is alive before it ever reaches that of the female which of itself, is inert. Thus the element of life is handed over in a chain reaction, leaving us perhaps, to the conclusion that DNA does not provide life, but enables or disables, how we experience life and that life itself, is a constant?
I like it...you should write a book...:)
 

White Stone

Well-known member
First I will start off with I know the verses.. I was once an elder in the Org. I have heard it said well you need not ask ones who are.. But I say nonsense because there has to be something that is proof positive that you have the calling if not I see no reason why you can make such a positive claim. What was it that first makes a person know? Has anyone ever explained an experience? Did they experience something one time that told them they were called but then it stopped and they knew they had to live up to it afterward. The verses say the Spirit Keeps bearing witness to our Spirit that we are God's Children... So is there repeated signs/testimonies or reminders that God's Spirit is on a person. I find the subject fascinating. I once had an experience where I asked internally when half awake, what is it like to be anointed? Then immediately I had a presence/flash don't know how else to describe it convey to me this is what its like, then I felt a flush of positivity knowing for sure I was... I could not have thought up that experience. That's what makes me wonder.. It was an amazing experience. I did not mention to anyone prior to that about anointing. It was internal. I immediately awoken flabbergasted and in shock. I didn't want to trust that experience and make the assumption that I was anointed. The reason is because I have had demon harassment in my youth for about a year so I knew what demons are capable of. So I learned never to trust one supernatural experience. Rather to be slow to grabbing onto an emotional experience. Til this day after feeling persecuted by the org I made no attempts to embracing thoughts of anointing. I even mentioned to a C.O. at one time I felt I was being attacked/persecuted from within the Org in various ways through many strange and bizarre experiences that just seem to come my way without invitation or activities on my end.. Something just did not seem right. Something was unholy in the Org and I felt that deliberately the org was trying to control even who is anointed in a psychological way keeping things hush hush.. Although through the years I had a feeling something was up. I don't expect people in the world to define the experience. If honest hearted people are here maybe they have thoughts to share on the subject.
For me, it was at first, a strong feeling to partake even though it was months ahead on the memorial. I researched on the wt library about the partaking, how it could be disastrous if one partakes without discerning the body.(1 Corinthians 11:29) I can’t remember exactly if that night or the following night that I received my anointing, in a dream. A fire was in front of me, just like the illustration in the Pentecost, as I was staring to it, it suddenly moved to my right arm as if and merge with me, then suddenly I wake up, my body jumped or jolted. That morning, I questioned what could it mean? But had a thought if that is the spirit of anointing? I wasn’t sure at first, it happened on the last week of July.(It was at this time that suddenly, I have the sudden urged to read the prophets and the New Testament, much like Robert.)

Then the following days and months, it was followed by many dreams. I was directed to read “Phi 1:11” which means Philippians 1:1 mentioning “to all the holy ones”.

Then, I was also lead to read Psalms 120, “a song of the Ascents” and read the following chapters that is associated with it.

I was said that I was “fully cleansed.”

Saw the Lord Jesus, having hair just like David, and features of a middle eastern like large curved nose. But when I saw him, I felt the most calm presence. It was like radiating from him. His skin was flawless, and was like the color when a sunset hits the skin.

Then on February 17,2022, another dream. On the top of the mountain I was given a gold, silver, and a white stone(or pebble, from which my name derives) After receiving it, I walked down the mountain then suddenly I saw someone at a table with white clothing, handing me a bread and said: “Eat the eucharist.” When I heard that, I said immediately , “No! I won’t it eat it and rejected it(as it was from a catholic term) When I woke up and realized what ai had done, immediately apologized to the Lord and giving thanks to him and to Jehovah for this privilege.

I searched what the term “eucharist” meant from the Merriam dictionary and says it came from the greek word “eucharistos”, and it is associated with the memorial or communion meal, meaning “thanksgiving”.

History and Etymology

Middle English eukarist, from Anglo-French eukariste, from Late Latineucharistia, from Greek, Eucharist, gratitude, from eucharistos grateful, from eu- + charizesthai to show favor, from charis favor, grace, gratitude; akin to Greek chairein to rejoice — more at YEARN
 

Paz

Well-known member
Hi white stone,
I have partaken but don’t anymore so I understand to some degree the questions and feelings. My decision is do as you feel comfortable with. If awkward at KH partake at home. My conclusion is leave it with Jehovah does it mater where we end up as long as we remain friends with Jehovah through his son.
One point I explain on my website that the ‘other sheep‘ started as a group about 36ce not 1935ce as claimed by the then President of the Watchtower Brother Rutherford. This means many first century Christian’s had the earthly hope such as the Ethiopian Eunuch who was baptised but not anointed as bride class member. See JwQ on http://christ2coming.org
christian Regards P.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
Hi white stone,
I have partaken but don’t anymore so I understand to some degree the questions and feelings. My decision is do as you feel comfortable with. If awkward at KH partake at home. My conclusion is leave it with Jehovah does it mater where we end up as long as we remain friends with Jehovah through his son.
One point I explain on my website that the ‘other sheep‘ started as a group about 36ce not 1935ce as claimed by the then President of the Watchtower Brother Rutherford. This means many first century Christian’s had the earthly hope such as the Ethiopian Eunuch who was baptised but not anointed as bride class member. See JwQ on http://christ2coming.org
christian Regards P.
Regarding the eunuch, Luke could only write what the witnesses told him. The account says that Philip was led quickly away by the Lord’s spirit and found himself in Ashdod after baptizing the eunuch. The sign of the anointing back then is prophesying or speaking in tongues. Philip could not have witnessed the anointing of the eunuch(prophesying or speaking in tongues) because of what happened(transported immediately) and was not included in the writing.

But if that is not the case, he would later get it as with the case of Samaritans.

Acts 8:14-17 “When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Sa·marʹi·a had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them; and these went down and prayed for them to get holy spirit. For it had not yet come upon any one of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them, and they began to receive holy spirit.”

The enuch may have received the anointing later after the anointing of Cornelius, a gentile.
 

Paz

Well-known member
Regarding the eunuch, Luke could only write what the witnesses told him. The account says that Philip was led quickly away by the Lord’s spirit and found himself in Ashdod after baptizing the eunuch. The sign of the anointing back then is prophesying or speaking in tongues. Philip could not have witnessed the anointing of the eunuch(prophesying or speaking in tongues) because of what happened(transported immediately) and was not included in the writing.

But if that is not the case, he would later get it as with the case of Samaritans.

Acts 8:14-17 “When the apostles in Jerusalem heard that Sa·marʹi·a had accepted the word of God, they sent Peter and John to them; and these went down and prayed for them to get holy spirit. For it had not yet come upon any one of them, but they had only been baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. Then they laid their hands on them, and they began to receive holy spirit.”

The enuch may have received the anointing later after the anointing of Cornelius, a gentile.
Hi is your point arguing that all Christians in first century were anointed that agrees with Rutherford’s argument that those with earthly hope started with his announcement at Cedar Point Ohio Assembly in 1935ce. On my website it explains why this contradicts Brother Russell’s view and the NIV commentary concerning the ‘other sheep’ That this group were gathered from 36ce. I had 2 aunts one anointed and the other of the ‘other sheep’ class, earthly hope she knew she was not anointed in the 1920’s well before the so called new light announcement in 1935. If you go with the official watchtower view nobody can be newly anointed today so how do you explain the 22000 that I believe are mainly genuine ones.
The scripture you use in Acts 8 proves some Christians in the first century were anointed with the heavenly hope as they are today. There will always be more with the earthly hope because the heavenly group is a ‘little flock’. Because we have been initially taught watchtower teachings it is difficult to let them go. For example 1914-1919ce Jesus chose a slave the watchtower but he did not become King, he did not oust Satan from heaven. It’s due anytime now.(it may have started in March 2020?). Jehovah has chosen the wt slave but it’s due for inspection again and is likely as Robert says due for some correction, disapline because it has allowed Satan to infiltrate it with mis teachings. Read my section JwQ on http://e-christ2coming.com
Christian Regards P.

The only other view that can be taken if somebody insists on all baptised Christians being heavenly is the teaching of Christendom‘s part of Babylon the Great that all christians go to heaven. There is no earthly hope and the others end up in a fiery Hell. If Russell had stayed with that view there would never have been a Watchtower Society. No preaching work, no ‘people for Gods name’ on earth today and the stones would have to be crying out.
 
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BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Hi is your point arguing that all Christians in first century were anointed that agrees with Rutherford’s argument that those with earthly hope started with his announcement at Cedar Point Ohio Assembly in 1935ce. On my website it explains why this contradicts Brother Russell’s view and the NIV commentary concerning the ‘other sheep’ That this group were gathered from 36ce. I had 2 aunts one anointed and the other of the ‘other sheep’ class, earthly hope she knew she was not anointed in the 1920’s well before the so called new light announcement in 1935. If you go with the official watchtower view nobody can be newly anointed today so how do you explain the 22000 that I believe are mainly genuine ones.
The scripture you use in Acts 8 proves some Christians in the first century were anointed with the heavenly hope as they are today. There will always be more with the earthly hope because the heavenly group is a ‘little flock’. Because we have been initially taught watchtower teachings it is difficult to let them go. For example 1914-1919ce Jesus chose a slave the watchtower but he did not become King, he did not oust Satan from heaven. It’s due anytime now. Jehovah has chosen the wt slave but it’s due for inspection again and is likely as Robert says due for some correction, disapline because it has allowed Satan to infiltrate it with mis teachings. Read my section JwQ on http://e-christ2coming.com
Christian Regards P.
I have to say, being a cynic as I am, that is there any prophetic teaching from the watchtower that is reliable? If we examine the past and present behaviour of those in control, does it make sense, above that which is basic truth open to anyone, to believe anything they have said without looking at the subject in isolation of them? After all, that is the forward purpose of this site.
Look at the wrangling for power in 1916 and the split that occurred and the corruption, building a house for the anointed to return to, and the possessions etc they accrued - it is difficult to see any blessing upon them other than the basic work that they have achieved, striking, though that is. When it comes to anointing, it really seems a no-go area of discussion because the argument is one of perception and thus peculiar to the one making the claim. The only certainty comes from within and which, by dint of the human being, cannot exclude self delusion. I think it is that issue, that though unspoken, is the source of watchtower concern, because they fear equality of others to their ‘exalted’ position of exclusivity. Why else would they close the mouths of others outside of their circle, and who claim to be anointed? Are they suddenly not of value outside of the headquarters building? After all said and done, no one knows what a heavenly existence means or even a perfect existence as a human being. If it is what it is, then proximity of being is equally fulfilment in existence for both classes. Is one less than the other? Why did angels forsake their place in heaven to be on earth? It is worth consideration within the larger picture. I have no doubt that I would like to be in heaven with Christ, but I would equally like to be on earth with Christ and if Jehovah can wander the garden in the “breezy part of the day”, I would look forward to that to. The watchtower likes to paint being anointed as a holy difference that is superior, but in fact it is an equal existence with its own fulfilment - both of which will enjoy life to the full. Life is an equaliser, rather than a position.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
Hi is your point arguing that all Christians in first century were anointed that agrees with Rutherford’s argument that those with earthly hope started with his announcement at Cedar Point Ohio Assembly in 1935ce.
I would say most of the early christians were probably anointed. Note the account in Acts 8:5-13, Philip went to Samaria to declare the good news and many got baptized but not anointed. It was later on that they were anointed by the holy spirit through the hands of Peter and John.(Acts 8:14-17) Similarly, when the eunuch got baptized also by Philip, he did not get anointed, but it could be later on, just as how the Samaritans received theirs.

Regarding the earthly hope, it was long foretold by Isaiah the prophet. Earthly hope has been around since the ancient times. Isaiah 65:16-21 mentions it.

Isaiah 65:16 “So that anyone who seeks a blessing for himself in the earth Will be blessed by the God of truth, And anyone who swears an oath in the earth Will swear by the God of truth. For the former distresses will be forgotten; They will be concealed from my eyes.”
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I would say most of the early christians were probably anointed. Note the account in Acts 8:5-13, Philip went to Samaria to declare the good news and many got baptized but not anointed. It was later on that they were anointed by the holy spirit through the hands of Peter and John.(Acts 8:14-17) Similarly, when the eunuch got baptized also by Philip, he did not get anointed, but it could be later on, just as how the Samaritans received theirs.

Regarding the earthly hope, it was long foretold by Isaiah the prophet. Earthly hope has been around since the ancient times. Isaiah 65:16-21 mentions it.

Isaiah 65:16 “So that anyone who seeks a blessing for himself in the earth Will be blessed by the God of truth, And anyone who swears an oath in the earth Will swear by the God of truth. For the former distresses will be forgotten; They will be concealed from my eyes.”
It must have been a wonderful time to live through. It is strange to think that newly baptised ones were anointed shortly after. If that happened today, the GB would think you are “mentally ill.”
 

White Stone

Well-known member
It must have been a wonderful time to live through. It is strange to think that newly baptised ones were anointed shortly after. If that happened today, the GB would think you are “mentally ill.”
Truly. Not understanding that it is the free gift of God. We should not concern ourselves if they are deserving or not of the anointing, after all, it is by the grace of God. Who are we to question them? But whatever the case, Jehovah knows who belong to Him.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Truly. Not understanding that it is the free gift of God. We should not concern ourselves if they are deserving or not of the anointing, after all, it is by the grace of God. Who are we to question them? But whatever the case, Jehovah knows who belong to Him.
I’m not sure that anyone questions the anointing. It is what it is. What seems to be difficult to understand or grasp, is the validity of the claim, not that there exists a calling. How does a colour-blind person understand the colour they cannot see? The GB, given their love of position, do not welcome criticism and if the criticism comes from the anointed, then people may listen. That is their fear, as is the case with any bully. Being labelled as mentally ill, is quite a hurdle to jump with any credibility and they know that. On the other hand though, the mind is unfathomably complex and can be deceptive - it can hear, see, smell touch and taste without any need for external stimuli should it choose to and the question of perception and how we view things the way we do, is a fascinating and complex study. Many experiences are not what they seem to be to the beholder - and that is not a criticism, but an everyday mental fact in our existence. Regardless, arguing something as holy and unique as anointing from Jehovah is way beyond my pay-grade and I can only be pleased for people who experience it. I cannot argue a matter I have no knowledge of. If there is anything for the onlooker such as myself to consider, it would be that the potential for the mind is far and away greater than what we consider the norm to be now, not only because it requires mental telepathy, but because it must come from a power beyond our imagination. That requires a pause for thought for anyone.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
I’m not sure that anyone questions the anointing. It is what it is. What seems to be difficult to understand or grasp, is the validity of the claim, not that there exists a calling. How does a colour-blind person understand the colour they cannot see? The GB, given their love of position, do not welcome criticism and if the criticism comes from the anointed, then people may listen. That is their fear, as is the case with any bully. Being labelled as mentally ill, is quite a hurdle to jump with any credibility and they know that. On the other hand though, the mind is unfathomably complex and can be deceptive - it can hear, see, smell touch and taste without any need for external stimuli should it choose to and the question of perception and how we view things the way we do, is a fascinating and complex study. Many experiences are not what they seem to be to the beholder - and that is not a criticism, but an everyday mental fact in our existence. Regardless, arguing something as holy and unique as anointing from Jehovah is way beyond my pay-grade and I can only be pleased for people who experience it. I cannot argue a matter I have no knowledge of. If there is anything for the onlooker such as myself to consider, it would be that the potential for the mind is far and away greater than what we consider the norm to be now, not only because it requires mental telepathy, but because it must come from a power beyond our imagination. That requires a pause for thought for anyone.
Because we have been taught what to expect when one partakes, and in a negative way. The WT taught us that aside from being really anointed, they may just be mentally-ill. As you said, the GB maybe don’t want someone to challenge their authority from an anointed so that’s why they have this pre-supposed idea when one partakes.

Regarding the validity, only one who has the spirit can know if they are really anointed. It will be revealed by the spirit inside him/her. Before the end, will be seen much more by others in the revealing of the sons of God.

1 Corinthians 2:11 “For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God except the spirit of God.”

Still, there will be evidence that one is anointed, he becomes a new man according to God’s will.
 

Soul Sage

Well-known member
There were multiple times when I felt an anointing. Due to new understanding in biblical stories. But I regarded that as just really appreciating Jehovah so much for all he has done as well as deep study and meditation like if I was living during those times. I do feel different than most people but there is still that uncertainty about it. Others have asked me if I am too but I still have my doubts. I know of an anointed person in my congregation. I can see how she is anointed, as she is aglow with the spirit but it comes only at a certain time in life. You may not realize that you are anointed until you turn 55 years old and then for others they feel an anointing at 25.

The most important thing to consider though, don't let your incredible amount of appreciation for Jehovah confuse you about being anointed. It's something you have to be 100% sure about and it will show in your actions and you will feel a different kind of energy about yourself, as if holy spirit is directing your anointment and thoughts get put in your head to look up this scripture and read it and then new insight is revealed.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Because we have been taught what to expect when one partakes, and in a negative way. The WT taught us that aside from being really anointed, they may just be mentally-ill. As you said, the GB maybe don’t want someone to challenge their authority from an anointed so that’s why they have this pre-supposed idea when one partakes.

Regarding the validity, only one who has the spirit can know if they are really anointed. It will be revealed by the spirit inside him/her. Before the end, will be seen much more by others in the revealing of the sons of God.

1 Corinthians 2:11 “For who among men knows the things of a man except the man’s spirit within him? So, too, no one has come to know the things of God except the spirit of God.”

Still, there will be evidence that one is anointed, he becomes a new man according to God’s will.
…”Still, there will be evidence that one is anointed, he becomes a new man according to God’s will.”

Surely there is some gift with it, is there not? It must be evident, because the spirit is evident, just as it was with the apostles and those that came after them. I always wondered at those in the congregation who claimed anointing, but the only gift they had was the admiration of some within the congregation who viewed their thoughts as ‘deep’ when they simply were repeating watchtower rhetoric. The spirit is from the creator, the living God, and the bible speaks of those to come being mighty in their power, their speech being given them to argue truth, against which none can stand; of being shrouded with light. Essentially, there was a link between them and the creator. Perhaps I expect too much. I would not expect a new man as you suggest, because that is a personal interpretation that none can measure. What I would expect is fruit of the spirit rather than a bell without a clapper as with the GB.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
I would not expect a new man as you suggest, because that is a personal interpretation that none can measure. What I would expect is fruit of the spirit rather than a bell without a clapper as with the GB.
The “new man” I was referring to was mentioned in Ephesians 4:22-24 which was translated as “new personality”. Of course, it would manifest the fruits of the spirit.

“You were taught to put away the old personality that conforms to your former course of conduct and that is being corrupted according to its deceptive desires. And you should continue to be made new in your dominant mental attitude, and should put on the new personality that was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty.”
Still though, one can’t say that the other isn’t anointed because of bad things he had done, or the personality he has, as it would imply that the anointed are perfect persons who cannot sin. Even Peter and the others acted in pretense when the men of circumcision arrived, then rebuked by Paul for their actions. In the parables of Jesus, it even describes of an evil slave who says in his heart that the master will delay then do wicked things. There will some who will be choked by thorns and other things. But others will be fruitful 30, 60 or 100 times.

Do not let these circumstances of the GB affect your relationship with Jehovah and Jesus, as there will be trouble within and outside the congregation as prophesied. In the end, it will be known to us.

1 Corinthians 4:5 “Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God.”
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
The “new man” I was referring to was mentioned in Ephesians 4:22-24 which was translated as “new personality”. Of course, it would manifest the fruits of the spirit.

“You were taught to put away the old personality that conforms to your former course of conduct and that is being corrupted according to its deceptive desires. And you should continue to be made new in your dominant mental attitude, and should put on the new personality that was created according to God’s will in true righteousness and loyalty.”
Still though, one can’t say that the other isn’t anointed because of bad things he had done, or the personality he has, as it would imply that the anointed are perfect persons who cannot sin. Even Peter and the others acted in pretense when the men of circumcision arrived, then rebuked by Paul for their actions. In the parables of Jesus, it even describes of an evil slave who says in his heart that the master will delay then do wicked things. There will some who will be choked by thorns and other things. But others will be fruitful 30, 60 or 100 times.

Do not let these circumstances of the GB affect your relationship with Jehovah and Jesus, as there will be trouble within and outside the congregation as prophesied. In the end, it will be known to us.

1 Corinthians 4:5 “Therefore, do not judge anything before the due time, until the Lord comes. He will bring the secret things of darkness to light and make known the intentions of the hearts, and then each one will receive his praise from God.”
Interesting thoughts. Thanks. The GB does not in the least effect my thinking on the scripture or my faith, but the GB is of course significant to all of us in that it is where the comparison and innuendo arise from. It cannot be discounted - rather the opposite I feel as it is so illustrative of all that is wrong in people’s thinking and contemplation of the truth. It exists for the purpose of revelation. Also it is not just the claim of anointing that is significant, but the issues of faith that such entails for the other sheep. Not only does it attract inspection then - though of course, validation is of the heart of the claimant - but there is an inference of loyalty and support. Thus the follower of truth, not only rightly inquires, but also, if satisfied, will nurture and support that one as the bible suggests as a true follower - feeding, clothing visiting in prison etc. Therefore there is not only an obligation upon the one seeking truth, but also upon the one claiming the anointing if they choose to claim such. There is no obligation to alert people to the fact it seems as in the past it was revealed only to those present, but evidenced publicly by works. Why claim it unless we are to expect and value what follows?

If one takes this site as an example, it’s fruits are increasing in value, consistency, discovery, in feeding faith, in works, in translation and explanation. It is not idle but diligent, scrutinised, tested, inspected in matters of truth and is not found wanting, it is active in development of the fruits of the spirit and its diversity in meeting those needs is fuelled by the discussion that in turn, develops tolerance and friendship. It is a reflection of the dedication to witness the Truth that - I do not think it out of place to say so, reflects that of the anointed following the ransom of Christ. “By their fruits you will know them“, was written for a reason and thus we are to expect insight into that display of the Spirit - how else would we know? I am not criticising those that make the claim, I would not be so foolish - I have enough problems in seeking truth without adding to them, but simply speaking as a layman considering the experiences within and outside of the watchtower. It was only on leaving the watchtower that I came to see the evidence of the Spirit and though we know their full manifestation is yet to come, that does not seem to hinder those making the claim. It has consequences for both those who claim such as well as those who do not as it will effect both equally so the scriptures say - and again, the warning that many are called, but few are chosen. Thus there are qualifications and if there are qualifications, then it goes without saying that there is evidence. Hence why this thread was started by someone. Not sure who, but it’s a point of interest worthy of discussion.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I suspect that WT has trained us to consider "anointed" as synonymous with the "upward calling". Since there are individuals in the scriptures that are called "anointed" but lived prior to Jesus, and thus cannot have the hope of serving as a king-priest in heaven, what is the definition of "anointed"? Does it apply to everyone that is called but not yet chosen?

I feel that there is a parallel with dedication versus baptism. One is private and one is public. One has significance to you and your relationship with Jehovah, the other is significant in connection with your interaction with others and the theocratic structure.

Being called is a private matter. However, it should in no way impact your relationship with others in the congregation nor should it elevate someone within the theocratic structure. On the other hand, a true anointing is being chosen for a special purpose within Jehovah's organization. Due to the weight that goes with that assignment, proof is required. Even Jesus was anointed in a public manner so that others could bear witness to that anointing.

In the first century, gifts of the holy spirit were a public indication of someone's anointing. They were even encouraged to use those gifts when meeting together for others in the congregation to see and benefit from.

I personally choose not to use the term "anointed" for someone that partakes. I do not believe there are any anointed on the earth at this time. There are many that claim to be called to be adopted sons of God and I have no reason to doubt that nor should I. That is a private matter between them and Jehovah. I do believe that those who are sealed during Jesus's presence will be anointed in a public way. I also believe those of us that do not have the upward calling will have an opportunity to show courage to be witnesses of that anointing.

Take my view with great skepticism. I have become bitter due to the realization that much of what I have learned must be unlearned. While uprooting strongly entrenched wrong teachings, I may be causing collateral damage to healthful teachings, too.
I do not think your view is one of skepticism. To the contrary it is well reasoned. For me, I would consider that if there are not anointed ones through history and today, it would be remarkable. It is difficult to consider that we would be left without insight at this stage in time. In some respects though I have never been able to accommodate in my mind that those who are anointed do not speak out and show the fruitage of the Spirit. Why give it, if that mouth is to remain shut, when at this time, critical issues of faith are required to even contemplate survival. If not know, then when? That is why this site is an island.

Going back to the lie of 1914 and those claiming anointing through the last hundred years, which of them have spoken out? We would have expected some guidance from them. Rather, the anointing was seen as a reward (of what?) or calling, but never did I see anything from them, other than the reverence that others gave them. I find it truly incredible that if someone was anointed by the eternal creator of this magnificent work of art we call the universe, that there would follow silence. The call has to be answered. How could it be contained? I don’t know….maybe I should change my name to Thomas, or go see a Borean for their insightful consideration. 😀
 

Paz

Well-known member
Hi All
I have found a website by an anointed brother he has written on why he feels as anointed one and quotes from F Franz who explained his view in 1952. See ‘Are there Two hopes? https://templesanctuary.org I am not saying I am in complete agreement but his view is interesting. I agree that ‘other sheep’ were called from 36ce or thereabouts. My difference is the earthly group I believe existed amongst the brotherhood in the 1st century as they do today. Not when Rutherford claimed in 1935ce.
I found his writings enlightening . Regards, P.
 

Paz

Well-known member
I have to say, being a cynic as I am, that is there any prophetic teaching from the watchtower that is reliable? If we examine the past and present behaviour of those in control, does it make sense, above that which is basic truth open to anyone, to believe anything they have said without looking at the subject in isolation of them? After all, that is the forward purpose of this site.
Look at the wrangling for power in 1916 and the split that occurred and the corruption, building a house for the anointed to return to, and the possessions etc they accrued - it is difficult to see any blessing upon them other than the basic work that they have achieved, striking, though that is. When it comes to anointing, it really seems a no-go area of discussion because the argument is one of perception and thus peculiar to the one making the claim. The only certainty comes from within and which, by dint of the human being, cannot exclude self delusion. I think it is that issue, that though unspoken, is the source of watchtower concern, because they fear equality of others to their ‘exalted’ position of exclusivity. Why else would they close the mouths of others outside of their circle, and who claim to be anointed? Are they suddenly not of value outside of the headquarters building? After all said and done, no one knows what a heavenly existence means or even a perfect existence as a human being. If it is what it is, then proximity of being is equally fulfilment in existence for both classes. Is one less than the other? Why did angels forsake their place in heaven to be on earth? It is worth consideration within the larger picture. I have no doubt that I would like to be in heaven with Christ, but I would equally like to be on earth with Christ and if Jehovah can wander the garden in the “breezy part of the day”, I would look forward to that to. The watchtower likes to paint being anointed as a holy difference that is superior, but in fact it is an equal existence with its own fulfilment - both of which will enjoy life to the full. Life is an equaliser, rather than a position.
Hi Barnaby,
In one sense those on the earth are superior in that those heavenly ones who only exist to serve the earthly ones for a 1000years under their rule. For example overseers or elders are meant to be like restaurant ‘waiters’ serving us. Obviously most of them forget this and think the opposite. Also there would be no bride class if Adam had not sinned. The primary purpose regarding this planet was to ‘fill‘ the earth with Jehovahs earthly children. I liked your point of wanting to hear and feel Jehovah’s windy voice as did Adam and Eve in the garden. Nice one. Regards Paz.
 
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