If you claim to be Anointed. How do you know? Really How?

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Posstot

Guest
I don't mind people speculating on the above and people can take my input with as much salt as they like and there's nothing here the slightest but critical or contentious simply thinking out loud but I feel I must warn people those ideas of heavenly rebellion before Adam's fall originated from the Sethian tradition that were partially adopted by branches of gnosticism, some Christian persuasions and Islam. John Milton kind of tweaked the idea of the books of Adam and Eve from the rebellion of some angels refusing to worship Adam to Jesus instead.

I do love Milton mind you most of his beliefs aligned with witnesses and his paradise regained book was good I feel partly do to the cultural influence of paradise lost that there is a tendency to have an elevated view of the devil's original position and popularity among the angelic hosts so many think he was the first or highest angel after Jesus for some reason I think the adversary was a cherub possibly also a seraph in the garden his original position under Gabriel's authority (as Gabriel is described in Enoch as over paradise and the cherubs and seraphs) the pre flood fallen angels appear to have initially assisted humanity in response to people calling on Jehovah but the leader of that group expressed the desire to get involved with the women and whether out of shared improper desires or "were in this together" conradery they joined him. It didn't have much to do with Satan initially but doubtless he was very pleased by the chaos and wickedness and going by some texts the spirit creature aspect of the hybrid offsprings biology became Satan's minions after there bodies died in the flood.

The one scenario where I could imagine more than a couple hundred fallen angels aligned with Satan is if the revealing of the sacred secret the elevation of the humans making up the bride of Christ to an immortal position above the angels triggers/ed a prideful response and defection of some a hypothetical third wave of defection (second the post Babel princes)

Personally while the devil is certainly as an enemy of Jehovah God I see him more as Jesus nemesis than a grand arch foe of the omnipotent creator from Jehovah's pov he's probably more of an anticipated speed bump in the grand design.

It appears that the whole purpose of creating earthly life in the image of God was, so as to settle certain aspects of the issue of moral autonomy that, by design could not be addressed in the spirit realm, and not the start of a branching out and diversifying of life in another dimension for the purpose of making life prolific and ubiquitous for its own sake.

The reason for this seems to be that the consequences of malign moral self determination cannot be played out in the spirit realm, where, for example, lies and slander cannot be told because the Source of Truth is always at hand and consultable to verify any accusation and the intent behind it.

Similarly, things like murder and such, are also not possible in the spirit realm; hence the huge consequences of moral deviancy - the exceeding sinfulness of sin - were likely winked at and trivialized by those craving moral independence from God, where these rebels at heart just expected everybody else to put up with them making a nuisance of themselves, by their own selfish desire.

That is why this physical realm was created, as a theatrical spectacle for man and angels, a laboratory with a framework protocol within which these moral issues could be played out on us poor lab 'rats' here; and then some of these entitled angels have the nerve to complain when Jehovah elevates certain ones of these 'rats' to immortality, and appoints them as judges over them; well, suck it up, is all I can say, for it is precisely because of them and their narcissism, that we have been suffering here in this mess for the past 6000 years, with tears and pains that they seem utterly clueless about, for although they use the same measuring unit for length as us - big deal - the 'young man' in the flaming magnesium dress sitting in Jesus' empty tomb, telling the two stunned women to, 'Stop being stunned,' seemed to have been out of his depth in comprehending what it means to be human, and a 'little lower' than them, who behold Jehovah's face every day. 1 Co 6:3; 1 Co 4:9; Re 21:17; Mk 16:5,6; Mat 18:10
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
If there are any anointed of God reading this right now, if I happen to survive Armageddon and you recognize me, please say hello if it is permitted after it is finished, if I happen to live through it. We won't know one way or another but it would be nice to recognize our former fellow humans as being those who are chosen to help us live our lives rightly. Our connection to the spirit world of God will be different after the thousand year reign and maybe not as scary as it feels now. I was born or given a level of perception of the spirit world that scares the hell out of me daily and I don't talk about it much because it makes people roll their eyes as if I were a crazy person. For just one day I would like to feel happiness and holiness from the spirit world. The disturbance I feel is immense and I don't know how to interpret it except to accept that it is our time. Am I the only one feeling these things?
 
R

RR144

Guest
If there are any anointed of God reading this right now, if I happen to survive Armageddon and you recognize me, please say hello if it is permitted after it is finished, if I happen to live through it. We won't know one way or another but it would be nice to recognize our former fellow humans as being those who are chosen to help us live our lives rightly. Our connection to the spirit world of God will be different after the thousand year reign and maybe not as scary as it feels now. I was born or given a level of perception of the spirit world that scares the hell out of me daily and I don't talk about it much because it makes people roll their eyes as if I were a crazy person. For just one day I would like to feel happiness and holiness from the spirit world. The disturbance I feel is immense and I don't know how to interpret it except to accept that it is our time. Am I the only one feeling these things?
Maybe they'll be a huge "Anointed Wall" like the Vietnam Wall with everyone's name. Just a silly thought. 😜
 
O

OnlyJah

Guest
Well said sister ☺️ I didn’t feel the need to put a lot in my answer which is why I simply mentioned about God creating the earth and Adam and Eve…anyone who knows the Bible and Jehovah will believe that the earth is here to be inhabited and that our first parents had they not sinned would have enjoyed eternal life on this earth, as you rightly state sis, Jehovah’s purpose has not changed 💕
Interesting that Satan said Jah was witholding good things from his human children in Eves time yet a short while later in the time of Job he accused him of giving too many good things to job and asked for them to be removed... x
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Interesting that Satan said Jah was witholding good things from his human children in Eves time yet a short while later in the time of Job he accused him of giving too many good things to job and asked for them to be removed... x
Great point. Thank you
 
R

RR144

Guest
Getting back somewhat to the original question. I was called in 1990, after learning about the High Calling in Christ Jesus. (Phil. 3:14). The Society's publications rarely spoke of it, they just assumed any new members would be relegated to earth.

I didn't aspire to it, after reading the Scriptures and "The Divine Plan of the Ages", it was offered to me, unworthy as I felt, I accepted it. I still feel unworthy of it. But as the Apostle stated: "I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus." he said in verse 13: "Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead." And since that day I have never looked back. I can't say it's been an easy journey, but I can't complain. 4 years later I parted ways with my JW brethren as I felt spiritually stagnant with them.

I remember when I started partaking, they looked at me as if I was crazy, "Jehovah called YOU!!?", "HAH! If He's going to call anybody, he'd be calling me!" My response was "not with that attitude". "I've been serving Jehovah 50 years he would call me before you!" Again my response was "it's not the quantity of service it's the quality of service."

The Lord opened up so much to me, he told me "get out of her" and eventually I did. I wasn't happy, few of the JWs wanted spiritual talk. It's as if once they left the hall it was hanging out and no spirituality.

The Bible Students I associated with, lived and breathed the Lord. I remember the first time I was invited to a gathering. I showed up and it was a Bible study. That was their definition of a gathering.
 

JulioG

Well-known member
It appears that the whole purpose of creating earthly life in the image of God was, so as to settle certain aspects of the issue of moral autonomy that, by design could not be addressed in the spirit realm, and not the start of a branching out and diversifying of life in another dimension for the purpose of making life prolific and ubiquitous for its own sake.

The reason for this seems to be that the consequences of malign moral self determination cannot be played out in the spirit realm, where, for example, lies and slander cannot be told because the Source of Truth is always at hand and consultable to verify any accusation and the intent behind it.

Similarly, things like murder and such, are also not possible in the spirit realm; hence the huge consequences of moral deviancy - the exceeding sinfulness of sin - were likely winked at and trivialized by those craving moral independence from God, where these rebels at heart just expected everybody else to put up with them making a nuisance of themselves, by their own selfish desire.

That is why this physical realm was created, as a theatrical spectacle for man and angels, a laboratory with a framework protocol within which these moral issues could be played out on us poor lab 'rats' here; and then some of these entitled angels have the nerve to complain when Jehovah elevates certain ones of these 'rats' to immortality, and appoints them as judges over them; well, suck it up, is all I can say, for it is precisely because of them and their narcissism, that we have been suffering here in this mess for the past 6000 years, with tears and pains that they seem utterly clueless about, for although they use the same measuring unit for length as us - big deal - the 'young man' in the flaming magnesium dress sitting in Jesus' empty tomb, telling the two stunned women to, 'Stop being stunned,' seemed to have been out of his depth in comprehending what it means to be human, and a 'little lower' than them, who behold Jehovah's face every day. 1 Co 6:3; 1 Co 4:9; Re 21:17; Mk 16:5,6; Mat 18:10
The truth is that this makes me understand Kevin... reading this comment like many others makes me feel as if I were in the Council of Nisea and reminds me a lot of the words of Jesus in Matthew 15:14 So let them. Blind guides is what they are. And, if a blind man guides another blind man, they will both fall into a hole.
 

TravellinRox

Well-known member
Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I found many things in your writings which I feel the same. It can be quite hard for some people to accept the ideas which indicate that they are not considered as important as anointed ones in NT.


We don't say we are loved by God as same as Jesus is loved by God. I think God had much more love for Jesus than any other angels too. I don't want to apply the 'everyone is equally loved and equally important' kind of thought on this matter.

Jesus was firstborn and faithful upon death. He is being loved more than us for many other reasons. We can easily accept that. But what about the anointed ones? They are the first fruit from mankind. Are they chosen because Jehovah loved them more than the rest of mankind?


It seems Jehovah keeps his loved ones close. Jehovah adopted them as sons even when they still are humans. And promised them by using the holy spirit that he will bring them to the house in heaven where Jesus is. They will see the face of Jehovah which is impossible for the flesh and blood. We know the answer to the question.


We humans, of course, have emotions. But, our emotions should not alter the truth. We are easily controlled by biases when we try to figure out something. It seems it is somewhat almost impossible to abandon our former mindset or way of thinking unless we try really hard not to fall into a trap of bias. This is why we say people believe what they want to believe.


Recent WT publications are focused on gathering the great crowd and applying most of the scriptures to them not explaining the true meaning which is related to anointed ones. I agree that this can cause many problems. Without insightful study, it can falsely be believed those scriptures are directly applied to the great crowd. But we need to remember many of the applications are expanded applications for a better understanding of the great crowd.


Even Jehovah may love Jesus or angels or anointed ones more than us, it doesn't mean that we are not loved. When we try to seek the truth and apply principles in our lives, we surely can expect love from God. But we cannot ask our God to love us equally as Jesus, angels, anointed ones are loved. It is his call. I hope people don't get hurt when they are on a journey of seeking the truth. This journey is not just full of excitement and joy. It can be somewhat painful for some people to accept certain things.

And I want to point out about 1Tim 2:1-6. I'm happy that you got comfort from the scripture but it seems there is a misunderstanding. I don't want to hurt you by pointing out a misunderstanding that you believed comforting but I know you are not the kind of person who got hurt by knowing the truth.

In 1 Tim 2:1-6, it is saying 'men'. But it doesn't mean every human being or great crowd. It can be quite sad for some people knowing that un-anointed are not even included in 'men'. But we want to know the truth anyway.

Jesus is a corresponding ransom for all(every human). But he is a mediator only for the new covenant, anointed ones who consist of spiritual Israel. As Moses was a mediator for the old covenant and Israelites. (Gal 3:19) You can find more scriptural evidence on referenced scriptures connected to 1 Tim 2:5,6. It is a solid truth. If Jesus is a mediator for everyone(sounds good though), it can cause many serious problems. I hope you are ok with my little correction.

Hi Mattress!

I‘m sorry I’ve taken so long to reply back. I am completely ok with you adding your thoughts to the matter. That is what the forum is for😊👍🏼

I wanted, though, to try to get some things clearer in my own mind. I am by no means an expert on all this😅 To the contrary, I’m trying really hard to figure it all out since I have so many questions. Therefore, I am so grateful for all the comments that have been posted, patiently helping me and others to understand, from the scriptures, some of the deeper things of God!🥰 I also wanted to be sure of what you were trying to get across to me. Since at the time of your posting, my head was already full of things I was grappling to comprehend, I needed to deal with those first.

Now having settled a few things into place in my mind, I can see the inaccuracy you are trying to point out to me …at least I think so lol.

I have never thought that Jehovah has the exact same love for all of his creatures. As you say, “we can easily accept that.” However, I do think that some when confronted with some of these ideas that are being dicussed, then mistakenly come to the conclusion that most of mankind are not really loved by Jehovah at all. As Shoshana has expressed, and I had previously felt somewhat too, that if these things were true, then we really don’t seem to matter at all in the big scheme of things. In my reply to her, I was trying to dispel some of that feeling.

People matter. All of Jehovah’s creatures matter to Him, even if it’s not to the same degree as those He’s elevated to higher ‘positions’. But, we as Jehovah’s human creatures, need to feel that we are loved by Him, too. And Jehovah wouldn’t have gone through all the effort He has, in order to benefit all of his creation, if He didn’t have great love for all of it. I’m sure you agree with that. But yes, I completely realize that we need to understand what Jehovah’s purposes really are, in truth! In reality, when we accurately understand how Jehovah has planned to fulfill those purposes, we feel even more love for Him! But, of course, it’s hard to figure out all the details along the way. So I thank you for your clarification!🤗

The main issue here is obviously between the ideas of the ransom and the mediatorship of the New Covenant. I agree with you that there is a difference. As Posstot has mentioned to me, there is no mediation without a covenant. Very true! (Joe has some interesting points, too though) However, both ‘mediator’ and ‘ransom’ are in the same sentence in 1Tim 2:5,6. It is by means of that Mediatorship of the New Covenant that Jesus will eventually apply the value of his ransom to all deserving earthly mankind. So, as far as I can understand currently, this chunk of scripture has elements of hope for both the Anointed and un-anointed alike. Shoshana still has the hope to fulfill all her desires on this earth after all the fallout, and she can be certain that Jehovah very much loves her.

But I know that you had no intention of taking that hope away but rather to clarify my thoughts on the matter. I thank you for that! I truly do want to know the truth accurately.

I look forward to more of your comments and clarifications, Mattress, with much ‘Christian’ love😘
 
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Paz

Well-known member
First I will start off with I know the verses.. I was once an elder in the Org. I have heard it said well you need not ask ones who are.. But I say nonsense because there has to be something that is proof positive that you have the calling if not I see no reason why you can make such a positive claim. What was it that first makes a person know? Has anyone ever explained an experience? Did they experience something one time that told them they were called but then it stopped and they knew they had to live up to it afterward. The verses say the Spirit Keeps bearing witness to our Spirit that we are God's Children... So is there repeated signs/testimonies or reminders that God's Spirit is on a person. I find the subject fascinating. I once had an experience where I asked internally when half awake, what is it like to be anointed? Then immediately I had a presence/flash don't know how else to describe it convey to me this is what its like, then I felt a flush of positivity knowing for sure I was... I could not have thought up that experience. That's what makes me wonder.. It was an amazing experience. I did not mention to anyone prior to that about anointing. It was internal. I immediately awoken flabbergasted and in shock. I didn't want to trust that experience and make the assumption that I was anointed. The reason is because I have had demon harassment in my youth for about a year so I knew what demons are capable of. So I learned never to trust one supernatural experience. Rather to be slow to grabbing onto an emotional experience. Til this day after feeling persecuted by the org I made no attempts to embracing thoughts of anointing. I even mentioned to a C.O. at one time I felt I was being attacked/persecuted from within the Org in various ways through many strange and bizarre experiences that just seem to come my way without invitation or activities on my end.. Something just did not seem right. Something was unholy in the Org and I felt that deliberately the org was trying to control even who is anointed in a psychological way keeping things hush hush.. Although through the years I had a feeling something was up. I don't expect people in the world to define the experience. If honest hearted people are here maybe they have thoughts to share on the subject.
Hi Truth Detector,
I have studied this a lot because in 2011 I received what I felt was an invitation by spirit at the time I was disfellowshippEd seeking reinstatement. So that should interest you serving as an elder as you have. One of the appeal committees was of 7 brothers. I partook secretly till 2015 then 2 yrs at memorial in cong but the elders were not pleased. When I chose to officially stop the elder could not contain his smile and relief. In 1970’s I was baptised looking forward to the earthly hope , never wanted to go to heaven and most specially not to do government work for 1000yrs how monotonous. My view has not changed and now I have a wife who I really love and want to share my life in the new world. My aunts came into truth in early 1920’s one felt she was anointed and the other not. They did not need Rutherford to announce the two different hopes it was common knowledge since the 1880’s in Russell’s day when he clearly stated the 2 heavenly hopes, the less faithful being the ‘other sheep class’ . Rutherford just changed the destination of the ‘ other sheep’ to earthly. Then messed around with the teaching. I met my aunts and you could see that twinkle in the eye. I have worked on the ministry with quite a few anointed and I could see the difference in their demenure and their activities. One sister was so persistent in finding rvs in and her studies she was productive. I still take the emblems at home quietly and to be honest I really don’t know, I know what I want but maybe Jehovah has different ideas. As Jeremiah said ‘I am but a boy’ don’t use me I am no good. Certainly not deserving. If Jehovah does take me I will be grateful for his love but most of me wants to be here on earth with my wife. I have quite a bit to say on this subject on the forums and about disfellowship. Somehow I have missed your posts, sorry about that. My website is http://e-christ2coming.com
this explains why the reducing numbers of anointed is incorrect. The present increase is both logical and Jehovahs plan.
regards Paz.
 
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BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Hi Truth Detector,
I have studied this a lot because in 2011 I received what I felt was an invitation by spirit at the time I was disfellowshippEd seeking reinstatement. So that should interest you serving as an elder as you have. One of the appeal committees was of 7 brothers. I partook secretly till 2015 then 2 yrs at memorial in cong but the elders were not pleased. When I chose to officially stop the elder could not contain his smile and relief. In 1970’s I was baptised looking forward to the earthly hope , never wanted to go to heaven and most specially not to do government work for 1000yrs how monotonous. My view has not changed and now I have a wife who I really love and want to share my life in the new world. My aunts came into truth in early 1920’s one felt she was anointed and the other not. They did not need Rutherford to announce the two different hopes it was common knowledge since the 1880’s in Russell’s day when he clearly stated the 2 heavenly hopes, the less faithful being the ‘other sheep class’ . Rutherford just changed the destination of the ‘ other sheep’ to earthly. Then messed around with the teaching. I met my aunts and you could see that twinkle in the eye. I have worked on the ministry with quite a few anointed and I could see the difference in their demenure and their activities. One sister was so persistent in finding rvs in and her studies she was productive. I still take the emblems at home quietly and to be honest I really don’t know, I know what I want but maybe Jehovah has different ideas. As Jeremiah said ‘I am but a boy’ don’t use me I am no good. Certainly not deserving. If Jehovah does take me I will be grateful for his love but most of me wants to be here on earth with my wife. I have quite a bit to say on this subject on the forums and about disfellowship. Somehow I have missed your posts, sorry about that. My website is http://christ2coming.org
this explains why the reducing numbers of anointed is incorrect. The present increase is both logical and Jehovahs plan.
regards Paz.
I am uncertain as to faith having anything to do with anointing as a primary factor. Faith is a product of understanding and acceptance. Clearly one has to have faith, but faith in it standard means different things to different people. Faith has its meaning and value in the personal desire of the heart. For me, that is a significant principle of the scripture that suggests that a mustard grain of faith could move a mountain. The mountain I suspect, relates to the man. The power of the mustard grain being measured by his depth of loyalty, to move him to works both to himself and Jehovah. Surely that is one reason why many are called but few are chosen.

If that is the case (and I don’t claim that it is) then being chosen demands a response, otherwise, why are so many not sealed? There is a standard to reach, and I’m not certain that faith is the key, though clearly it is a part of it at this time. I simply feel that there is something above and beyond faith and that by which, we are measured. After all, if this time marks the end of this system, it marks the end also of the need for faith, as faith will be fulfilled by reality, will it not?

If two individuals are destined to die for their faith, by what standard do we measure that by? The value of sacrifice is mercurial in itself. What is death to a ninety-four year old person, compared with that of a young person of twenty? I lean more towards the point that it is not that we feel anointed, but why we should assume anointing. Jehovah chooses whom He wishes. I have no faith in myself to make such a claim and less still to assume it in myself. I am only to aware of the fact that the mind is deceptive. We can induce the brain into stages of euphoria using our own emotive powers, and we can experience that by having a good cry, as many a sister will confirm. Men are not immune either, though I have to say I feel emotionally dead at times. I was always intrigued as to why those who were anointed were also elders, and the women who were anointed, elders wives! Which came first, the elder or the anointing? If there is an answer to anointing insofar as man is concerned, an explanation, I would suggest that the example lies with the apostle Paul.
 

Joel

Well-known member
Interesting headline: "If you claim to be Anointed. How do you know? Really How?"

To start to answer this question, we need to start with what Jesus said in Matthew 28:18-20 -

"Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: 'All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

It all (including anointing) starts with "teaching"! At least in apostle Paul's letters there is more than enough information about anointing! That is why apostle John writes:
"And you have an anointing from the holy one, and all of you have knowledge." - 1. John 2:20. So, if genuine anointed partake of the emblems, it is because they KNOW!
By the way, if anointing from Jehovah God was given to each individual apart from them receiving initial teaching, than "teaching" would not be necessary at all, and instructions by Jesus also void, right?
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Interesting headline: "If you claim to be Anointed. How do you know? Really How?"

To start to answer this question, we need to start with what Jesus said in Matthew 28:18-20 -

"Jesus approached and spoke to them, saying: 'All authority has been given me in heaven and on the earth. Go, therefore, and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you. And look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.”

It all (including anointing) starts with "teaching"! At least in apostle Paul's letters there is more than enough information about anointing! That is why apostle John writes:
"And you have an anointing from the holy one, and all of you have knowledge." - 1. John 2:20. So, if genuine anointed partake of the emblems, it is because they KNOW!
By the way, if anointing from Jehovah God was given to each individual apart from them receiving initial teaching, than "teaching" would not be necessary at all, and instructions by Jesus also void, right?
You have a very good point there - could the anointing be seen as a command, a sense of approval - perhaps an acknowledgment of approval to be trusted with speaking the truth, enlightenment, a sense of responsibility, purpose in the work of Jehovah and Jesus. Going back to the Talent - that would entail then a response and to be about investing the truth in others. But is that not what witnesses do? How then does it differ, because surely everyone teaches according to their own gift given them by the spirit to do such work. The reward is to rule in the heavens with Jesus, over the earth, and would entail a deep insight above what is natural to us, but at this time, such sanctity in insight is way above our abilities at present. What is it then in teaching that sets them apart? As you note, Paul speaks from the point of being anointed, yet without any credentials that we see, he was anointed through an actual presence of Jesus when in a state of anything but Christian feeling. Thus knowing, or being given insight still requires something unique amongst men (and of course women). Knowing about it is a by-product, and outcome, not a reason for understanding why. It also raises the question as to why some anointed later retract their claim. I’m not being obtuse with you, Joel, far from it, I think you have a point that can be progressed and I for one would like more of your thoughts on the matter. Thanks.
 

Joel

Well-known member
I’m not being obtuse with you, Joel, far from it, I think you have a point that can be progressed and I for one would like more of your thoughts on the matter. Thanks.
Thank you for your reply and a question...
As to the apostle Paul (Saul before), he was not without knowledge, since he was a jew and to certain extent instructed in the law, even though not having accurate knowledge or understanding, but he was a part of the nation that was expecting Messiah...and it is understood, that before he got baptized, he was given understanding about Jesus. It is also important to remember, that Paul was a type of the anointed in the last days - today...
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Thank you for your reply and a question...
As to the apostle Paul (Saul before), he was not without knowledge, since he was a jew and to certain extent instructed in the law, even though not having accurate knowledge or understanding, but he was a part of the nation that was expecting Messiah...and it is understood, that before he got baptized, he was given understanding about Jesus. It is also important to remember, that Paul was a type of the anointed in the last days - today...
Thanks Joel. I agree that knowledge is an asset, and also, that knowledge has its use - but that ‘knowledge’ in itself is not a reason for reward such as being chosen. Were that the case, then the heavens would be littered with anointed through the ages. It is what is done with that knowledge that may be key and for that to be significant, then the heart condition would be the primary source. I understand the scripture that suggests that to those whom have much, much will be given as it acknowledges zeal. Yet though many are touched by the hand of Jehovah for that zeal, there are more that are not, no matter the knowledge or insight. To be called, but not chosen, indicates that more than knowledge is required. The Ethiopian’s knowledge was sparse, but it was his understanding of scripture that motivated him to baptism and all that such entails for believers. By comparison, after Christ and the first anointed, followers today are rich in understanding and even world events are coming to support that belief. In the end analysis, perhaps I am trying to second guess Jehovah as to His motives. I can’t really draw away from thinking that the minuscule knowledge of Jehovah that the best of us have, would ever qualify us for such honour and that therefore, it must be something unique to those who are chosen, certainly undeserved, yet powerful in its meaning.
 

Joel

Well-known member
To be called, but not chosen, indicates that more than knowledge is required...
Thanks for your reply.
I can see now that more is necessary to explain about the anointing. I remember in one WT article JW were encouraged to try to imagine paradise in the future. That is not too difficult, since much have been written about it in preceding decades. However, not enough has ever been written about anointing. That is why I have started to write about it. And now I see, that more needs to be said to understand it better, but for those, who like to understand it in order to appreciate what Jehovah has been doing in this regard for the past 6000+ years...
The "knowledge" of apostle Paul did not "qualify" him for anointing. Under "knowledge" I was referring to the knowledge that nation of Israel had about the coming of Messiah. And pharisee Saul knew about it, even though he did not, could not, accepted it rom "ordinary" people that became Jesus' disciples. But revelation of already glorified Jesus convinced him...Besides, what did he write to Galatians: "But when God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through his undeserved kindness..." - Galatians 1:15. Interesting variation in translating this verse: ESV (English Standard Version): "But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace..." To explain: for Jehovah God Almighty it is not difficult to read the DNA of a just conceived person in the womb of a mother...
 
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BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Thanks for your reply.
I can see now that more is necessary to explain about the anointing. I remember in one WT article JW were encouraged to try to imagine paradise in the future. That is not too difficult, since much have been written about it in preceding decades. However, not enough has ever been written about anointing. That is why I have started to write about it. And now I see, that more needs to be said to understand it better, but for those, who like to understand it in order to appreciate what Jehovah has been doing in this regard for the past 6000+ years...
The "knowledge" of apostle Paul did not "qualify" him for anointing. Under "knowledge" I was referring to the knowledge that nation of Israel had about the coming of Messiah. And pharisee Saul knew about it, even though he did not, could not, accepted it rom "ordinary" people that became Jesus' disciples. But revelation of already glorified Jesus convinced him...Besides, what did he write to Galatians: "But when God, who separated me from my mother’s womb and called me through his undeserved kindness..." - Galatians 1:15. Interesting variation in translating this verse: ESV (English Standard Version): "But when he who had set me apart before I was born, and who called me by his grace..." To explain: for Jehovah God Almighty it is not difficult to read the DNA of a just conceived person in the womb of a mother...
Thanks Joel, that is something more to consider and thank you for your time in writing so. Though DNA only affects our actions via genes, behavioural traits, intelligence, (to a degree), there is a large proportion, up to 45/55% that affects the difference in our psychology. If DNA affected our genes to a greater degree, I think that would contravene choice - freedom of. As it stands, recent study indicates it affects roughly 50% of our psychology. That does not rule out your thinking on Jehovah choosing someone who will fulfil need - Jehovah chooses whom he wishes to. I’m sure you are more aware of that than I am.
 
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