According to the bible. Gay people won't be resurrected unless they repent. Much like any other unrepentful sinner who would be straight or commit other unrepentful sins. Lett's family member won't get a resurrection, so I don't know why he would give them a false hope of an unrepentful homosexual coming back in the resurrection and also include him being resurrected back as a homosexual. Sorry if this upsets some but being an unrepentful homosexual is an abomination as stated many times in the scriptures. When the Bible says "the unrighteous will be resurrected" that doesn't mean unrepentful sinners, it includes people throughout history who never had a chance to know about Jehovah and lived an unrighteous lifestyle. There are many that were gay and disillusioned themselves to liking the opposite sex again. It might require a change of lifestyle through diet and exercise and letting go of any past trauma. It's probably not easy but it's possible and the chance of suicide is much less than if someone was to fully indulge in that lifestyle. On another note, I do think it's a pretty bad situation to excommunicate completely oneself from family. It gets them to commit suicide on a higher chance and if you can't encourage them with positivity to help influence them to make changes and come back, there's a chance of them never coming back and losing out on the resurrection entirely because of that excommunication. I seen it stumble more than help. How a JW witness father didn't want his son to visit him in his final hours of life cause the son was disfellowshipped. So he didn't get that last moment which would of been a good motivational opportunity for his son to come back to Jehovah and as a result, that son is more depressed and is on drugs that can kill him, knowing his father wanted nothing to do with him in his final hours of life, even though he should have with that being an emergency situation. From my understanding of the scriptures disfellowshipping meant only family members can communicate with them and they're congregation privileges were taken away. When family members are told to excommunicate with that person in a time of crisis it's only going to stir up more depression and animosity and may lead them to suicide or heavy drug use to cope with feeling abandoned.
2022 JW Convention
- Thread starter Watchman
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Sunshower
Well-known member
I didn’t get any further than these sentences and I’m so glad it’s Jesus who’s appointed to judge by Jehovah. I’m blocking you cause you have a heart of stone while claiming to be humble and loving.
BARNABY THE DOG.
Well-known member
I do not see anyone being denied a resurrection in the scriptures, except Judas, but I have never looked into the question with any particular interest and so may be wrong on that score. I think there is room to consider perversions in the norm, given the amount of chemical influence in reproduction, not to mention of course, the influence of society. When something is touted by society as a normal ‘difference’ then the less objectivity is expended in considering the natural and healthful issues of marriage. British media is infested with homosexual and lesbian normalisation. Advertisements and TV programmes are full of it. There is not only no moral restraint, but the benefits of such restraint is not even mentioned or even alluded to. It seems no longer desirable or even necessary to have balance and decency in one’s life. Sex appears to be for self gratification only and there is nothing about love, endearment, tenderness and respite from the world. Nothing about the unification of mind and body, simply mechanical pleasure. Appreciation of another has been reduced to personal gain at the most basic of levels and it is hideous to see. If two of the same sex live together as partners, their psyche is always in competition with each other, rather than a compliment to each other as in marriage to the opposite sex. Such is the sexual aggression in men today in pursuit of their own pleasures that women living with other women to escape from it is hardly surprising and more common than it used to be. Society is collapsing, along with reason, chastity and a great many other essential fabrics of our existence.
SusanB
Well-known member
Please quote the scripture that explains the definition of the unrighteousness people who will be resurrected or those who will not be resurrected because I think that’s your conclusion. Likely that’s what you’ve been taught but now would be a good time to learn what the Bible actually says and to not go beyond that.
BARNABY THE DOG.
Well-known member
You say only those who never had the chance to know Jehovah would get a resurrection. Jehovah is evident in every last vestige of creation. Even if they do not know the name, everyone can see the magnificence of creation. It is our responsibility to search for Jehovah. In any event, the person shows who he-she is by their course of action. There are countless numbers of people who did not know Jehovah or of the ransom, but were honest and kind in their treatment of others. It is inherent in our make-up and that in itself, is evidence of God. None of the attributes found in any living thing can be attributed to evolution or natural development. They are not a natural state of existence.
SusanB
Well-known member
I guess when the vaccines cause dementia from Prion Disease they will need those badges for reminders of who they are.
To clarify, only Jehovah can judge who will be resurrected. The wicked and those who are unrepentant at death are set for everlasting destruction. Jehovah knows who is wicked and the wicked won't be resurected
I understand that. Obviously more things go into that. It's why I clarified my statement. It's too bad some are so quick to judge and block me like Sunshower has. All based on an emotional response to my post. How disappointing.
SusanB
Well-known member
You continue to reveal who you are and it’s disturbing.
I very rarely hear that from others. You just don't really know me. I actually welcome constructive criticism, I don't run from it or censor it. I thrive in it.
SusanB
Well-known member
It’s obvious for your posts that you think a lot of yourself while looking down on others.
SusanB
Well-known member
By the way I’m still waiting for those scriptures that explain who the unrighteous are and who won’t be resurrected…..
Ms_ladyblue
Well-known member
I don’t think anyone is censoring your constructive criticisms or comments. But when it comes to Jehovah’s word I believe there is a limit, for example we don’t want to add or take away from what his word says right? Have you even used any scriptures to back up how you believe Jehovah’s going to judge these individuals?
I’m not speaking for everyone but I know that many of us come on this forum to express our thoughts and different opinions on what Jehovah’s word says on different matters but most of the time it’s not ‘set in stone’ what we express. Also we‘re in need of comfort and support, including spiritual support.
The WT has changed from what it use to be for some years now but it was hardly recognizable to many of us until the last two years or more. If you believe you have support in the WT congregation then what’s the problem? Why won’t you go back to your congregation? Like I asked you in another thread, if not, then why are you here, on this forum?
SusanB
Well-known member
Let me ask what motivated you to choose the screen name “Soul Sage”? The definition of sage is:
sage
sāj
noun
- One venerated for experience, judgment, and wisdom
Ms_ladyblue
Well-known member
@Driven that‘s interesting.
I thought sage was a color. But of course there could be other meanings.
And what about soul?
BARNABY THE DOG.
Well-known member
I can understand why Sunshower blocked you and I respect her opinion. However, for me, on most occasions, I have little left in my life to shock me and prefer to argue over the Spirit for the sake of understanding. Besides which, I view your objections as a reflection of your life, rather than scriptural. Yes, Jehovah is the judge over resurrection. Therefore your speaking for Him and knowing his mind, is a rather presumptive action. I have a very jaded and opinionated view homosexuality in either sex. I can see nothing that remotely resembles love in accepted degrees of penetration in the male sexual partner and applaud Jehovah‘s condemnation of it. Their love is a perverted pretence at best and their sense of love resembles lust rather than anything of nobility. I can understand your feelings about it.
On the other hand, thankfully, Jehovah has a far greater insight than any of us, and certainly of my self. Thus He says that he “wishes no one to be destroyed but desires all to attain to repentance.”. The point of ones’s death, is payment of our condition. “In the day you eat of it, you will die”. Christs death, as a perfect example of Jehovah’s love and redemption of mankind, offered a resurrection to all. That implies everyone. There are far, far greater sins than the prostitution of one’s self, though sin is all equalised in death. There are far more non-practicing homosexuals than there are those that do. There is lust in everyone’s eyes on occasion and that is denied to one’s self every day, and it is only the preference of whom we would like to be, rather than what we are (as the scripture points out - “miserable man that I am…”), that keeps us “desirous” of serving Jehovah in His opinion. He sees our struggle against ourselves.
We harp on about our righteousness as though we are paragons of spirituality, yet we forget so easily our past infatuations with sin. Lett, recently described children as “little opposers of Jehovah” and we all jumped on our wagon of self righteousness. But what young person or adult, has not been infatuated in growing up? Thus in our minds, there can be admiration that if not reasoned on, can become habitual and practiced. And, like it or not, our short lives are just one long trial of resistance to sin just to live a life tolerable to ourselves, let alone others. Look at all the young lives that are encouraged to be ”trans”. It’s sickening, but a learnt behaviour. How will you judge those that come to live a lie without ever having knowledge of whom they are? Therefore the lesson: ”Judge not, lest you yourself are judged”. Is it too much for us to leave our judgement and condemnation of others to Jehovah? It is wisdom if nothing else.
Interesting how you point my name out as it's a coincidence to the book of Proverbs that I love and try my best to live by, thus my name. That very answer as to who will get resurected is in Proverbs chapter 2. It's good context if you read all of chapter 2. Specifically, in regards to the resurrection it's at Proverbs 2:21 and 22.
"For only the upright will reside in the earth, And the blameless will remain in it. 22 As for the wicked, they will be cut off from the earth, And the treacherous will be torn away from it."
When some people find out that some family members and friends were not resurected when they thought they would be because Jehovah judged them as wicked, what will you do then? Would you challenge Jehovah's judgement and rebel or would you accept that Jehovah's judgement and respect it and continue on with your new life? Sometimes the truth is uncomfortable but relying on Jehovah's wisdom rather than ones own wisdom is why I like the book of Proverbs. The book of Proverbs gives sage like wisdom but it comes from above and my human body while taking in the knowledge of the book of Proverbs is the physical embodiment of the Soul. That's how I thought of my name.
SusanB
Well-known member
It’s interesting at how I point out your name??? You picked the name that is your online public forum identification. It’s a “coincidence” to the book of Proverbs?? Am I missing something? Is English the language you speak in your home? The definition of coincidence is “A sequence of events that although accidental seems to have been planned or arranged”. There is nothing accidental about choosing a screen name.
Regarding Proverbs 2:21-22. When do you think the upright and blameless are residing in the earth? When do you think the wicked will be cut off and torn away from it? You said that if a gay person dies without being repentant that he/she won’t get a resurrection. Does that mean that Jehovah is already judging the wicked and is he the one doing the cutting off now? Are we now in a judgment period? The flaws in your thinking are obvious to anyone who has a good grasp of the bible. The wicked will be cut off at Armageddon and at the final test after the 1,000 years. After the final test is when the upright and blameless will reside in the earth. So, you are twisting scriptures to fit your ideas, which again is probably what was taught to you but they don’t hold water.
You say that you have no problem being corrected, let’s see if you take correction. These are obvious things.
Regarding your arrogant question to me on if I would challenge Jehovah’s judgment (correct spelling by the way), deserves absolutely no answer from me because I answer to Jehovah not to you. The rest of your comment is nonsense other than it exposes that you are about as arrogant as they come.
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SusanB
Well-known member
It could be an herb too, but when you combine it with Soul??? Of course the self named “Soul Sage” has explained, sort of.