2022 JW Convention

People should understand that even if you got your feelings hurt badly or felt great injustice. Your relationship with Jehovah should not falter cause an elder or a GB member offended you. That's the problem with holding these "leaders" in very high regard. Once they stumble you for something they said or did you suddenly think it's a cult like thinking and use it as an excuse to leave Jehovah's organization. Jehovah's organization is not perfect and the sooner people realize that the better their mental health will be. The word "cult" is a very propagandized term. When practically everything is a cult. Your company CULTure is a cult, your academia in school is a cult, corporate news is a cult, political parties are a cult. I'm sure they even considered Jesus and his apostles a cult too. The difference is there are good cults and then there are many bad cults.
 
יהוה_saves said:
I’m thinking more about the implications of what Lett said about small children/babies being “enemies of God” in their, i guess, unbaptized status.

What makes this messaging so egregious, and so completely irresponsible is that millions of JW emotionally compromised parents will take this to heart- perhaps languishing under immense externals pressures, will take their aggression out on their children viewing them not as precious gifts from God but as God’s little enemies. This messaging will without question have a lasting impact on many parents with crushing implications.

Also consider the impact this will have on small children, little kids with burgeoning senses of self; impacting the way they view their peers, their neighbors, as it embeds into their memory formation, their psyche and stunts their ability to love Jehovah, to love themselves, resulting in an inability to love others.

This is no small matter, my hope is that this will stumble responsible parents OUT of Watchtower, allowing them to realize that Jehovah’s love is not compatible with an authoritarian regime that makes such statements, and that His boundless love exists outside of this organization.
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I think you are absolutely correct. I can not watch Lett for more than a few minutes because his eyebrows shooting up and down like a weightlifter doing pull-ups, really distract me. He has more muscle on his eyebrows than I ever had on my arms. Sadly there will be some who will take his reasoning on board. I look back on my watchtower days and shudder with sadness and regret. Zeal was for all the wrong reasons, unguided and heavy handed instructions from men with closeted minds to those without the wit to see through them. I do not know how I could have been so unbalanced in my theological thinking. There is a latent, malevolent and unspeakable evil brooding in the deeper enclaves of watchtower that envelopes the unthinking in a shroud of blind ignorance to do the bidding of these men and children see it as their reality.
 
Sundial said:
You know, I think that the cognitive dissonance is so high among the brothers that no one will take notice of Bro. Lett's comment in a negative light. They'll just giggle and excuse it. High praises always went to those who preferred to "sacrifice" their desire for a family, so children would be seen as a burden or inconvenience more than a blessing. Oddly, while Paul spoke of the value of being single in serving the Lord, I don't recall texts valuing the refusal to have children within the Christian marital arrangement. Yet, how many of our married pioneers remain intentionally childless as if proudly obeying a higher calling? Am I off?
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No, you are not ‘off’. Sadly, you are 100% correct. There is nothing of worth left in the watchtower. When Robert stated a couple of years ago that the watchtower’s withdrawal of the preaching was the apostasy I took it with a pinch of salt, but it proved to be just the tip of the juggernaut hoving into view. When I was first associated, it was difficult to negotiate in the hall for piles of books, boxes of magazines - and the literature servant was engulfed in sorting out orders for it all, let alone the burden of cost it was to the publisher - who was urged to put the return into the collection box. Meetings for ministry, the school, the lifts to and from the field, …it was endless and the crowds of witnesses out on a weekend, often meant driving brothers and sisters to the ministry and going back for more. Gone. Writing an anonymous letter just does not compare. But look at what has followed and the pathway it is taking. What came under the guise of care for the health of others, has revealed itself - and still is - as something far more sinister.
 
Ms_ladyblue said:
I definitely can relate to your story of how brothers feel about children…even some that have their own children!

Years ago ( in the 80’s) when I was fairly new in the “truth“ and my husband was studying. During the time our daughter was only a couple of months old she had colic and would cry a lot so I would take her to the back and try to calm her. Mind you, there was no speaker in the back so most times I missed hearing the meetings in those days. During that same time I received 3 anonymous letters in the mail criticizing me, to put in part their words, for allowing my child ’to cry like that while the meeting was going on and while praying to our Heavenly Father so she deserved to be thrown out like rotten fruit.“

I cried for the rest of the day till my husband came home but I didn’t want to say anything to him, that it might stumble him. And it was the week of CO visit. I informed the brothers, met with them, but my husband knew something was up, he insisted on finding out what was going on. So he did, but we never found out who wrote the letters.
Afterwards, we brought it to the brothers attention about having a speaker in the back. My husband, Steve, offered to go buy and install it in. Anyway, while the brothers kept going back and forth not making up their minds up about something so simple as having a speaker in the back…Steve just took it on himself to put the speaker in anyway. Nothing was said after that.

During that same time period while we were in the meeting, while the song was playing, one of the elders, who was one of those complainers of children, came up to Steve, pointing in his face saying “You need to take her outside and give her a good spanking!”
I don’t remember how Steve responded, but I had a thing or two that I said to him on the phone when I called the next day.

Back in those days we faced a lot of tests when our children were growing up.
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The 80s were horrible for children at the KH. Smacking was encouraged. A elder used to sit behind us wake my 4 year old brother up if he feel asleep at a evening meeting.
In the 90s a brother used to carry a wooden spoon in his brief case and take his young child out to hit him with it when he wouldn’t sit still. No body ever said it was wrong to do that
When I had my 4th child 15 years ago that’s when my meeting attendance went downhill. She was a baby who needed a proper sleep
Routine and the meeting were horrible especially at the group, I would spend the whole hour with a screaming baby in someone’s kitchen and there was no point being there. My baby was better off at home I her cot!
Many JW are not child friendly and neither are the meetings
 
Soul Sage said:
People should understand that even if you got your feelings hurt badly or felt great injustice. Your relationship with Jehovah should not falter cause an elder or a GB member offended you. That's the problem with holding these "leaders" in very high regard. Once they stumble you for something they said or did you suddenly think it's a cult like thinking and use it as an excuse to leave Jehovah's organization. Jehovah's organization is not perfect and the sooner people realize that the better their mental health will be. The word "cult" is a very propagandized term. When practically everything is a cult. Your company CULTure is a cult, your academia in school is a cult, corporate news is a cult, political parties are a cult. I'm sure they even considered Jesus and his apostles a cult too. The difference is there are good cults and then there are many bad cults.
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Hurt feelings should not affect a person’s relationship with Jehovah, but it does. And so that has to be addressed rather than warned about, because you cannot build a house without tools - and the watchtower does not have a tool amongst them. If the listener‘s understanding of Jehovah is based on watchtower rhetoric then the faith a person builds on such contaminated understanding is naturally a very thin, tenuous material. In fact it it not faith, but a simple belief. That is not enough. Jehovah has not been described as He is by watchtower, therefore the faith of a person is built on sand. Jehovah is an entirely different entity than that described by watchtower and a person‘s understanding of Jehovah can only be as insightful of those who assume to know if they allow themselves to be dictated to.

Do we see the watchtower putting faith in Jehovah? Do we see the attributes of Jehovah in them or the society? Do we understand or have a grasp on such attributes? Do we perceive the fruitage of the Spirit in depth of understanding, meaning and outcome? No. Jehovah is a facsimile of truth as described by the watchtower and those that cannot see the lie, cannot behold even the beginnings of faith other than a child-like insight, and that, built upon the sand of men. It is only when we behold the essence of Jehovah in our heart, that we have something to fight back with. A small grain of faith is all it takes to lay down a foundation, so the bible says, and we can move a mountain. If the pyre of ex-JW‘s embers smouldering on the internet is not evidence enough of the limp plasticity of watchtower teaching, then it is of no surprise given the quality of their teaching.

The fact remains, the watchtower teaching does not build faith. As others here note, quite rightly, that the cognitive dissonance caused by such teaching tears families apart, and their reasoning along with it. That is what cognitive dissonance does. The victim is left with no resolution within the mind to resolve the search for Jehovah unless it is integral within their psyche. If the watchtower has a purpose still, it is to provide an example of what truth is not. Watchtower is impotent. A partner in faith it never was and it’s appeal was a lure to a promise that never existed in 1914.

The test is simple. When the truth is revealed, it asks the question as to what is in the heart. Watchtower has no control over that as the future will show. Jesus assured those that search that they will recognise his voice. That is the difference. If people are stumped in their faith by watchtower, one has to question if they understood faith at all, or just had a desire to follow men and let them do the searching for them. I have not met any person yet who, when searching for Jehovah, has not found Him. But I know of plenty of witnesses who have let men lie to them and let it stop them in their search. The bible warns us of that. It says not to put your faith in men. Did they ever have faith in Jehovah? That is the question, or were they simply searching for a panacea for this trial-some world? Their answer and subsequent action will tell. There is nothing to help those that cease the search.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
Hurt feelings should not affect a person’s relationship with Jehovah, but it does. And so that has to be addressed rather than warned about, because you cannot build a house without tools - and the watchtower does not have a tool amongst them. If the listener‘s understanding of Jehovah is based on watchtower rhetoric then the faith a person builds on such contaminated understanding is naturally a very thin, tenuous material. In fact it it not faith, but a simple belief. That is not enough. Jehovah has not been described as He is by watchtower, therefore the faith of a person is built on sand. Jehovah is an entirely different entity than that described by watchtower and a person‘s understanding of Jehovah can only be as insightful of those who assume to know if they allow themselves to be dictated to.

Do we see the watchtower putting faith in Jehovah? Do we see the attributes of Jehovah in them or the society? Do we understand or have a grasp on such attributes? Do we perceive the fruitage of the Spirit in depth of understanding, meaning and outcome? No. Jehovah is a facsimile of truth as described by the watchtower and those that cannot see the lie, cannot behold even the beginnings of faith other than a child-like insight, and that, built upon the sand of men. It is only when we behold the essence of Jehovah in our heart, that we have something to fight back with. A small grain of faith is all it takes to lay down a foundation, so the bible says, and we can move a mountain. If the pyre of ex-JW‘s embers smouldering on the internet is not evidence enough of the limp plasticity of watchtower teaching, then it is of no surprise given the quality of their teaching.

The fact remains, the watchtower teaching does not build faith. As others here note, quite rightly, that the cognitive dissonance caused by such teaching tears families apart, and their reasoning along with it. That is what cognitive dissonance does. The victim is left with no resolution within the mind to resolve the search for Jehovah unless it is integral within their psyche. If the watchtower has a purpose still, it is to provide an example of what truth is not. Watchtower is impotent. A partner in faith it never was and it’s appeal was a lure to a promise that never existed in 1914.

The test is simple. When the truth is revealed, it asks the question as to what is in the heart. Watchtower has no control over that as the future will show. Jesus assured those that search that they will recognise his voice. That is the difference. If people are stumped in their faith by watchtower, one has to question if they understood faith at all, or just had a desire to follow men and let them do the searching for them. I have not met any person yet who, when searching for Jehovah, has not found Him. But I know of plenty of witnesses who have let men lie to them and let it stop them in their search. The bible warns us of that. It says not to put your faith in men. Did they ever have faith in Jehovah? That is the question, or were they simply searching for a panacea for this trial-some world? Their answer and subsequent action will tell. There is nothing to help those that cease the search.
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It's true B. Christ's words here sum up the modern day Pharisee's.
Luke11:52 "Woe to you who are versed in the Law, because you took away the key of knowledge. You yourselves did not go in and you hinder those going in!"
 
Nomex said:
This is text book, WT propaganda. This is all I ever heard my whole life, "Don't take it out on Jehovah".

Complete copout!
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I agree. One of the ideas that has been taught is that salvation equates to obeying the governing body via your local elders. Meeting attendance and field service being tied to that as well. They don't even preach any longer so then what is a kingdom hall except one giant collection box for donations to the worldwi. whoops, I almost forgot, no preaching work.
If we aren't knocking on doors then I can accomplish what I need at home, without the masks. I've got bibles and a songbook, songs on Mp3.
I honestly don't recognize the literature now. This latest thing they are studying is video based. Without the videos it is worthless.
I am a bible thumper, not a brochure thumper.
 
יהוה_saves said:
WHAT IN THE H-E-DOUBLE TOOTHPICKS? Look at that little enemy of God? just when you thought you’ve heard it all. . . This is extremely offensive. I can’t even put into words just how utterly offensive this man is.
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All I can say is, don't "Lett" him be around your little enemy of God. You never know what he might do in his "righteous" anger.

I'm going to start greeting the toddlers in the cong as cute little enemies of God and see how well that goes over.

This may be a stretch but could this sentiment about children being enemies of God be a nod to the Roe v Wade crowd or the jab your child crowd? After all, If they they are enemies of God, then its ok if they die...right?

Imagine that we are now inviting the public to hear THIS during the first talk of the convention !!!
I wonder how the translators are going to handle this?
 
Soul Sage said:
People should understand that even if you got your feelings hurt badly or felt great injustice. Your relationship with Jehovah should not falter cause an elder or a GB member offended you. That's the problem with holding these "leaders" in very high regard. Once they stumble you for something they said or did you suddenly think it's a cult like thinking and use it as an excuse to leave Jehovah's organization. Jehovah's organization is not perfect and the sooner people realize that the better their mental health will be. The word "cult" is a very propagandized term. When practically everything is a cult. Your company CULTure is a cult, your academia in school is a cult, corporate news is a cult, political parties are a cult. I'm sure they even considered Jesus and his apostles a cult too. The difference is there are good cults and then there are many bad cults.
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Well humans are collective by nature so the biggest cult is society.
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MickHewitt said:
It's true B. Christ's words here sum up the modern day Pharisee's.
Luke11:52 "Woe to you who are versed in the Law, because you took away the key of knowledge. You yourselves did not go in and you hinder those going in!"
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That is exactly so. Even 50 odd years ago, few if any signs of the times were really self evident. Yes, watchtower would go into paroxysms of warning over the slightest rise in interest rates so to speak, yet now, the scriptures quoted come with tangible evidence that can be pointed to, rather than the exaggerations we were all used to from bethel. Their problem is that sheep are applying the evidence to the GB! They assume no one recalls 1975, but plenty of the brethren do, and the hype that went along with it. There was no tangible evidence for 1975 even when I was preaching ‘under the influence’ and I think the cynic in me saved me a great deal of disappointment. That is the trait of watchtower, they plant the seed, and then feed it with hype and let the imagination of the hopeful slave do the rest. If there was a Nobel Prize for propaganda, the watchtower would be a yearly recipient.
 
BARNABY THE DOG. said:
That is exactly so. Even 50 odd years ago, few if any signs of the times were really self evident. Yes, watchtower would go into paroxysms of warning over the slightest rise in interest rates so to speak, yet now, the scriptures quoted come with tangible evidence that can be pointed to, rather than the exaggerations we were all used to from bethel. Their problem is that sheep are applying the evidence to the GB! They assume no one recalls 1975, but plenty of the brethren do, and the hype that went along with it. There was no tangible evidence for 1975 even when I was preaching ‘under the influence’ and I think the cynic in me saved me a great deal of disappointment. That is the trait of watchtower, they plant the seed, and then feed it with hype and let the imagination of the hopeful slave do the rest. If there was a Nobel Prize for propaganda, the watchtower would be a yearly recipient.
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They take everything in a persons heart that should be exclusively Jehovah's.!
 
Nomex said:
Lloyd Evens has a compilation of Lett bad mouthing children. That jerk does not like kids. And I agree even before I had kids you could really tell how much those who did not have kids, turned their nose up at those who do. When my daughter was propbaly a year old or younger, the handling attendance and seating, sat us two meetings in a row, in the front row, and second from the front row. I was going to sit in the back school, and he said, "we're trying to keep people from sitting in there unless they have a reason." I said, "I have an infant." He looked stunned like he hadn't thought of that and says, "Well that's not a reason." And then asked a sister to move and sat us next to her. He's probably in his 60's now and that was about 8 years ago, and no kids. Long story short, they appointed him an elder, and we had to change halls. The guy had a broken nose, and more than once I thought to myself, "I'm about to break your nose again you jackass." He made at least two sisters cry at the meeting because of the way he treated them.

I had to get out of there or it would have ended badly.
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When I became a JW, almost the entire hall was made up of people with kids of varying ages. So at the Hall, it was never an issue.

For years at conventions and assemblies I would follow the loving guidance of attendants as they tried to seat us. We had young children and liked to sit near exits or on the aisles so we didn’t disturb anyone if we had to get up. After one improper seating episode, we simply picked up and moved. And from then on I simply said, “no thank you” when they tried to direct us. They simply didn’t have the foresight to understand how to seat a young family.
 
Soul Sage said:
People should understand that even if you got your feelings hurt badly or felt great injustice. Your relationship with Jehovah should not falter cause an elder or a GB member offended you. That's the problem with holding these "leaders" in very high regard. Once they stumble you for something they said or did you suddenly think it's a cult like thinking and use it as an excuse to leave Jehovah's organization. Jehovah's organization is not perfect and the sooner people realize that the better their mental health will be. The word "cult" is a very propagandized term. When practically everything is a cult. Your company CULTure is a cult, your academia in school is a cult, corporate news is a cult, political parties are a cult. I'm sure they even considered Jesus and his apostles a cult too. The difference is there are good cults and then there are many bad cults.
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I see a couple of problems with your thinking. First, there is a difference between when Jehovah uses a person or organization for his purposes and when he claims them as his own organization or follower. The bible tells us that Jehovah through his Son will seal his chosen ones in the future but that sealing has not yet happened. Anyone can claim to be anointed in this time period and we have no idea if that is true or if they will remain faithful. That is why God’s word tells us to put them to the test.

Second, the bible itself tells us that the publishing company called the Watchtower will be discarded as it has served its purpose.

Isaiah 30:13-14: “So this error will be for you like a broken wall, Like a bulging high wall ready to fall. It will crash suddenly, in an instant. It will be broken like a large potter’s jar, So completely smashed that no fragment among its pieces will be left To rake the fire from the fireplace Or to scoop water from a puddle.”

Perhaps some would like to say when it is time to leave and perhaps they may say some have left prematurely. But tell me where in the scriptures it condemns ones that leave too early? Or, the scriptures that say to not leave until a specific time. Leaving the Watchtower organization does not mean you have left Jehovah. Nobody, including you, can rightfully make that judgment.

Jeremiah 7:4: “Do not put your trust in deceptive words and say, ‘This is the temple of Jehovah, the temple of Jehovah, the temple of Jehovah!’“

Psalm 94:20: “Can a throne of corruption be allied with you While it is framing trouble in the name of the law?”. This scripture is talking about being allied with Jehovah. The “throne” of corruption means the rulers or judges and the phrase “in the name of the law” can be worded ”by decree”. So this scripture can be restated to say “Can rulers or judges be allied with Jehovah while they are framing trouble by decree?”. I think the answer is also found in the scriptures.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18: “Do not become unevenly yoked with unbelievers. For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Beʹli·al? Or what does a believer share in common with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols? For we are a temple of a living God; just as God said: “I will reside among them and walk among them, and I will be their God, and they will be my people.” “‘Therefore, get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’”; “‘and I will take you in.’” “‘And I will become a father to you, and you will become sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah, the Almighty.”

Ezekiel 34:10: “This is what the Sovereign Lord Jehovah says: ‘I am against the shepherds, and I will demand an accounting of them for my sheep, and I will dismiss them from feeding my sheep, and the shepherds will no longer feed themselves. I will rescue my sheep from their mouth, and they will no longer be food for them.’”

Here is what the Watchtower was teaching on January 15, 1974 as per their publication from that date in reasoning with people to leave false religion:

”…WHAT results when a lie is let go unchallenged? Does not silence help the lie to pass as truth, to have freer sway to influence many, perhaps to their serious harm?”

That is a principle that I have always believed even before studying the bible. And, then my study of the bible further confirmed my belief in that principle. I have left the organization. I have not left Jehovah and that is up to him to tell me that I cannot worship him outside of the Watchtower. No man can make that judgment.

Isaiah 45:20-22: “Gather together and come. Approach together, you escapees from the nations. They know nothing, those who carry around carved images And pray to a god that cannot save them. Make your report, present your case. Let them consult together in unity. Who foretold this long ago And declared it from times past? Is it not I, Jehovah? There is no other God but me; A righteous God and a Savior, there is none besides me. Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth, For I am God, and there is no one else.”
 
BagdadBill said:
I left a convention once because of one of the breezeway stasi nazi guards. Some of these brothers take their jobs a little too seriously. This was at the old Charger stadium. I couldn't stay awake and oh, don't some brothers get super-righteous if you nod off during their part onstage. Sue me. For all I know I've got narcolepsy or some other thing. With all the crap in the food and water I wouldn't be surprised. Anyway, conventions have always been snoozefests for me because of the droning way they speak. I needed to stand up and get blood flowing but I couldn't very well stay standing in the seats and block the view of those behind me. I went up to concourse of whatever they call them.
Brother High and Mighty told me I couldn't be there. I tried to explain it but he waved me off. Wouldn't even let me speak.
He was enough of <insert dirty name here> that I went back and grabbed my books and as I walked past him, I let him know that I was leaving Jehovah's meeting because of him and I said it loudly.
I know I have to forgive him and people like him. Done deal but I don't want to know people like that. At the time it made me wonder if Elders sat around in meetings discussing how much of an ass they could be to the rest of us.
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I used to work the security at Jack Murphy assemblies. It was way better than being an attendant. We were told to walk around during the program and report anyone suspicious. We were given radios. That was a perfect job for me. Who knows BagdadBill maybe I even followed you, or even Robert:D But then they switched me to night security. UGH. Their was a family of skunks and a couple of cats that came out at night. I would go out to the pitchers mound and pretend to pitch. Ahh those were the days.
 
When we consider the palpable anti-child, demon-worshipping cult that has taken over America; subjecting nursery schoolers to drag queen story hour, sexualizing young children in advertisements, grooming adolescents for a gender change, insisting on the right to murder an infant up to the point of birth, Stephen Lett is more than a mere clownish fellow, he is in harmony with that satanic spirit of the world.
 
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