Chapter 12 - Collapse of the Watchtower

DavidCJ

Well-known member
Barnaby, what I said is from personal experience, and I have seen Jehovah's hand "first hand". I put no trust in our own understanding. He was the one taking care, I see no other credible explanation. Stocking up might be of little help initially, but as I've personally seen, people that stocked up in the anticipation of war had to run away with only the clothing they had on their back, leaving all the stockpiles of food and supplies they prepared for others to plunder. The only way to salvation is putting trust in Jehovah.
GB like to to think that they will have the same level of control they do now, but as was discussed in one of the threads earlier, I think that the congregations will need to have autonomy in order to survive when all that we take for granted falls apart. Provided that they trust Jehovah in the first place.
Very interesting. May I ask what you went through?

That was my thought. It might help you a bit for the first few months, but beyond that this is a battle of spirits. Food/Water, Clothing, they are physical things.

Maybe if you are lucky you can take one treasured item with you but nothing is guaranteed.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
Agree. Jesus was outside the Jewish religious system because the Jewish religious leaders had rejected him. His sacrificial death then fulfilled the "Law" which in effect, ended the Jewish system.
It appears to me that it will be the same type of situation when Jesus returns. The Christian system will have served it's purpose. Watchtower will not be needed. So, "... Let us, then, go to him outside the camp..." Seems logical.

When Jesus comes into his Kingdom the W/T will have reached it's use by date, but the Christian system will have one final assignment to do.
 

alan ford

Well-known member
Very interesting. May I ask what you went through?

That was my thought. It might help you a bit for the first few months, but beyond that this is a battle of spirits. Food/Water, Clothing, they are physical things.

Maybe if you are lucky you can take one treasured item with you but nothing is guaranteed.
Hi David, I wrote a bit about it in my reply to Susan. Without going into too much detail, I lived in Yugoslavia during the break up, and survived the war there. On a personal level I've seen stuff that makes you lose faith in humanity. Was a victim of violence, persecution, stalking, psychological attacks and if it wasn't for Jehovah I don't know where I'd be. I was protected by Him. May He be blessed forever!
One other thing I wanted to mention is that during the hardest time in our lives we were approached by a JW who told us the truth. I was very young and my family wasn't particularly religious, save for observing the standard stuff and giving charitable donations. But when he came to our home we accepted the truth right away! From that point onward I was able to discern Jehovah's hand in my life. I am thankful to Jehovah for providing me with a good teacher, but above all I am thankful to him for planting the truth in my heart. We had studies in private homes in small groups and our little congregation was very loving. We lacked nothing.
 

evw

Well-known member
Anyone with insight into the truth is outside the gate, and with plenty of reproach. Clearly the reproach will be significant in time to come. For the large part now, any reproach is simply an innocuous shunning. When hate is added, that will light the fuse. Faith is the only asset we can deploy against fear, and its strength lies within love of righteousness. As the bible says, you can have all the knowledge that can be applied to the situation, but unless that knowledge is taken to heart in its translation, then it will be of no consequence to your survival.

At present, we seem to base our reassurance of the times we live in on what is familiar to us. The Great Depression is still with us, food shortages and basic survival. In England, that led to an attitude of “togetherness” in ”suffering”, but that which is to come will bring with it no such camaraderie. As in the Polish ghettos of the 1940s, the rule of thumb will just be to survive. Once self preservation becomes the priority, then all attributes, be they of knowledge or altruism, will become just a hinderance to life. Do not expect mercy. The sooner we make love of righteousness our priority, then the world and its passing becomes a necessary process that has both a meaning to endure, and a foreseeable conclusion. What ever we have will be lost. Whatever we know, will fade from cohesive understanding. There will be no understanding to direct us - except, if we think about it, the attributes of the spirit enshrined in the love of righteousness.
If possible, please answer this question: How do you see to put that loving righteousness literally into practice, now, but especially in that time of crisis or the great tribulation? 1678857834345.png
 

evw

Well-known member
Alan, what you quote of watchtower is an important issue, because it stems from complacency, rather than any reassurance from the scripture. From what I understand from the scripture, we cannot with confidence, place our trust in our own understanding. The tribulation is clearly stated as something we have not seen before, or will ever again. Thus our attempts to lessen its impact by storing food, water, weaponry etc is rather like trying to ignite an atomic weapon with a box of matches in a monsoon. Somewhat ineffective. Sure, having some stocks in will help in the initial outcomes, but unless someone helps us, angelic or otherwise, there is nothing we can do. Have a look at the aftermath of Hiroshima. The only unassailable items that cannot be taken from us are therefore spiritual. We can die with our spirituality intact. Maybe we can live with our spirituality intact too!! Nothing else though. Not a single item. Essentially, the rank and file do not see this. They believe in the protection of the GB. Quote: “Stick with us, you will be safe.” So we need to keep on being independent of each others stock of oil, and save our own. We do that by associating with each other from Honolulu to Oz, to England and the States, Holland and other places in Europe. Spirituality works. And it’s right here, right now! Wonderful, really.
This I understand 1678858317705.png this has answered my question 1678858434490.png
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Hi David, I wrote a bit about it in my reply to Susan. Without going into too much detail, I lived in Yugoslavia during the break up, and survived the war there. On a personal level I've seen stuff that makes you lose faith in humanity. Was a victim of violence, persecution, stalking, psychological attacks and if it wasn't for Jehovah I don't know where I'd be. I was protected by Him. May He be blessed forever!
One other thing I wanted to mention is that during the hardest time in our lives we were approached by a JW who told us the truth. I was very young and my family wasn't particularly religious, save for observing the standard stuff and giving charitable donations. But when he came to our home we accepted the truth right away! From that point onward I was able to discern Jehovah's hand in my life. I am thankful to Jehovah for providing me with a good teacher, but above all I am thankful to him for planting the truth in my heart. We had studies in private homes in small groups and our little congregation was very loving. We lacked nothing.
Hard times indeed for you. I’m glad that you found some support at such a critical time. It is very telling that when the truth is distanced from watchtower influence, it blossoms.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Honestly, I’m not sure why. I guess when contrasting with last year, when I honestly felt very angry and sad with the brothers and sisters who are so blind to what is happening, but perhaps this year I am more hopeful about Jehovah’s mercy and wisdom. As the scripture says at Luke 21:28: “But as these things start to occur, stand up straight and lift up your heads, because your deliverance is getting near.” I have learned so much more about the bible in the last 16 months or so. I really see it all coming together. I still get sad and angry but I feel more confident now. Not really sure why.
I can tell you why! Anyone that drives like you do has confidence!
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Hi David, I wrote a bit about it in my reply to Susan. Without going into too much detail, I lived in Yugoslavia during the break up, and survived the war there. On a personal level I've seen stuff that makes you lose faith in humanity. Was a victim of violence, persecution, stalking, psychological attacks and if it wasn't for Jehovah I don't know where I'd be. I was protected by Him. May He be blessed forever!
One other thing I wanted to mention is that during the hardest time in our lives we were approached by a JW who told us the truth. I was very young and my family wasn't particularly religious, save for observing the standard stuff and giving charitable donations. But when he came to our home we accepted the truth right away! From that point onward I was able to discern Jehovah's hand in my life. I am thankful to Jehovah for providing me with a good teacher, but above all I am thankful to him for planting the truth in my heart. We had studies in private homes in small groups and our little congregation was very loving. We lacked nothing.
Good to know a bit of background, Alan. There is no doubt Jehovah watches over and guides millions of people and helps us to know his will.
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
I expended a lot of ink on the Collapse of the Watchtower, but to put it succinctly, (my new word) Jehovah will require that we demonstrate our faith beyond the constraints of the Watchtower. Or to illustrate it for the Caleb and Sophie generations: Can you ride a bike without the training wheels?
 

alan ford

Well-known member
Hard times indeed for you. I’m glad that you found some support at such a critical time. It is very telling that when the truth is distanced from watchtower influence, it blossoms.
It wasn't necessarily distanced from WT, but it wasn't all pervasive as it is today. We still received literature and followed the weekly program but it just felt more organic meeting in homes. It felt like family gathering.
 

Paradise

Member
No. I cannot go and keep silent and the meetings are filled with error mixed with truth. I am convinced for me that it would not honor Jehovah by getting into a controversy with brothers and sisters at this time. Just seeing them at the Memorial will be enough for me to silently say, “I’m still here and I’m still faithful”. But the day to day meetings really don’t offer anything upbuilding for me and I don’t see how my going to the meetings would benefit anyone else either. I can watch their videos online if I need to but actually the information by Robert King is enough for me and the forum where I can express my faith works for me.
I understand about not going to the meetings. I’m still able to go and just sit for the most part silent knowing that I’m there for Jehovah and not what the people say. But my husband feels the same as you that he doesn’t want to hear error mixed with truth. After all this is meant to be “The Truth”!
But a question I have for a lot of people in this forum - how do you go about accomplishing your ministry? Sharing good news with others?
 

Deborah

Well-known member
I understand about not going to the meetings. I’m still able to go and just sit for the most part silent knowing that I’m there for Jehovah and not what the people say. But my husband feels the same as you that he doesn’t want to hear error mixed with truth. After all this is meant to be “The Truth”!
But a question I have for a lot of people in this forum - how do you go about accomplishing your ministry? Sharing good news with others?
Hi Paradise,

Because I love people and I guess am a people person I take advantage of opportunities presented. Dr's office, grocery stores even had chance to witness while getting gas one time from a man complaining about high gas prices. When weather is warm I have opportunity to discreetly talk with neighbors.

When my husband was living he would say. Do you know everyone in here. ( our development) They all wave or stop and talk to you 😂.

My washing machine recently passed away 😒 so I have been going to laundry until I can replace it. I talk to folks there as well. We end up laughing and people will tell their business. 😂
One older man told me his son put him out. That was my way in to speak with him about families etc.
Most times I find we have to take the initiative to talk about why folks suffer or God's kingdom. Etc. All I know is Jehovah and his son said to spread the good news. So I try to do that. You don't have to always knock on a door or sit at a cart Is how I feel about it.

😍
 

a watcher

Well-known member
I understand about not going to the meetings. I’m still able to go and just sit for the most part silent knowing that I’m there for Jehovah and not what the people say. But my husband feels the same as you that he doesn’t want to hear error mixed with truth. After all this is meant to be “The Truth”!
But a question I have for a lot of people in this forum - how do you go about accomplishing your ministry? Sharing good news with others?
I give tracts with small amounts of cash to homeless people.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I understand about not going to the meetings. I’m still able to go and just sit for the most part silent knowing that I’m there for Jehovah and not what the people say. But my husband feels the same as you that he doesn’t want to hear error mixed with truth. After all this is meant to be “The Truth”!
But a question I have for a lot of people in this forum - how do you go about accomplishing your ministry? Sharing good news with others?
I share informally where ever I have the opportunity and I pray for Jehovah to open avenues for me to find opportunities.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
Robert King ends one sub-paragraph in this chapter with this comment: “Having more closely considered how Jehovah has purposed to permanently settle the challenge to his universal sovereignty, consider, now, the ultimate culmination of his work.

And, I won’t quote all of the wonderful scriptures because you can read them for yourself under the heading “YOUR GRAND INSTRUCTOR WILL NO LONGER HIDE”

This one section particularly focuses on Isaiah and I have to marvel at the scriptures in light of what the GB did and are doing regarding the endorsement of the COVID vaccines and their continued paranoia regarding COVID.

At Isaiah 30:1, Jehovah addresses the Israelites as “stubborn sons,” saying to them: “‘Woe to the stubborn sons,’ declares Jehovah, ‘Who carry out plans that are not mine, who make alliances, but not by my spirit, in order to add sin to sin. They go down to Egypt without consulting me, to take shelter under Pharaoh’s protection and to take refuge in the shadow of Egypt!”

It is worth noting that Isaiah 30:1 is not the only place in Isaiah where God pronounces “woe” upon his people. In fact, every chapter of Isaiah, beginning with the 28th chapter through the 31st, begins the same way. For example, Isaiah 28:1 says: “Woe to the eminent crown of the drunkards of Ephraim...” Isaiah 29:1 likewise reads: “Woe to Ariel, to Ariel...” Isaiah 31:1 says: “Woe to those going down to Egypt...but who...have not searched for Jehovah himself.”

Jehovah’s sons have access to their Father’s counsel, but to their shame they stubbornly refuse to rely upon God’s wisdom and spirit. Instead, they merely make a pretense of doing so, while trusting in their own powers and human schemes. As the context indicates, this development has more far-reaching implications than merely ancient Israel. But can Jehovah’s modern witnesses today truly be likened to those stubborn sons of Israel who brought woe upon themselves?”
 
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SusanB

Well-known member
I appreciate how Robert King anticipates questions a reader might have and then answers it, such as this question: “But does Isaiah’s prophecy really apply to the Watchtower?”

I think Robert King’s reasoning is undeniable, and here is a quote from this chapter:

Consider another related prophecy in the 13th chapter of Ezekiel. Just as successive chapters in Isaiah pronounce woe upon God’s nation and people, Ezekiel 13:3 announces: “Woe to the stupid prophets, who follow their own spirit, when they have seen nothing!”

Who are those whom Ezekiel is commanded to denounce? Jehovah goes on to say of the “stupid prophets”: “They have seen false visions and foretold a lie, those who are saying, ‘The word of Jehovah is,’ when Jehovah himself has not sent them, and they have waited for their word to come true. Is it not a false vision that you have seen and a lie that you have foretold when you say, ‘The word of Jehovah is,’ when I have not said anything?’”

In considering the Christian parallel of the prophecy, who else other than the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society speaks authoritatively in the name of Jehovah? As all of Jehovah’s Witnesses know, the Watchtower claims to be the earthly mouthpiece of God….

In view of the fact that most of the Watchtower’s interpretations of prophecy are in error— as has been irrefutably established in the pages of this publication— from Jehovah’s standpoint all such dogma amounts to “false visions.” And because the “prophets” use the organization’s authority and claim to speak in the name of Jehovah, as if they have directly derived their esoteric knowledge from a divine source, it is as though such visionaries are promoting a lying divination. (Note: For whatever reason the 2015 NWT dropped the word “divination” and simply translates it as “lie.” However, other translations use the word “divination.” Byington uses the expression: “soothsay falsehoods.”)

Yet the question remains: Does this really apply to those who are actually God’s people or merely those who falsely claim to be such?
Ezekiel 13:9-10 provides the answer: “My hand is against the prophets whose visions are false and who foretell a lie. They will not be among the people with whom I confide; nor will they be written in the registry of the house of Israel; nor will they return to the land of Israel; and you will have to know that I am the Sovereign Lord Jehovah. All of this is because they have led my people astray by saying, “There is peace!” when there is no peace. When a flimsy partition wall is built, they are plastering it with whitewash.”

The prophecy clearly states that the “stupid prophets” have led the people belonging to God astray. Naturally, the Watchtower teaches that the condemned false visionaries typify the clergy of Christendom. But if Jehovah’s Witnesses are the true people of God, how is it that the supposed “stupid prophets” of Christendom have the power and influence to lead God’s people astray?”
 

SusanB

Well-known member
We can plainly see the world financial system starting to weaken. This chapter ends with mentioning that the white-washed wall of the Watchtower won’t be the only wall to fall at Jesus’ coming. It is something to consider that when the catastrophic events of the Great Tribulation take place, spiritual light will shine more brightly than anything we alive today have seen so far.

Here is a quote from the end of Chapter 12:

At Isaiah 30:26, Jehovah indicates the magnitude and intensity of the truth that is yet to be revealed to his people by comparing it to literal light. It reads: “And the light of the full moon will become like the light of the sun; and the light of the sun will become seven times stronger, like the light of seven days, in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals the severe wound from the blow he inflicted.

What is the setting of the occasion when the spiritual light from Jehovah will intensify sevenfold? The preceding verse of Isaiah provides the answer: “in the day of the great slaughter when the towers fall.

That day of slaughter when the towers fall cannot be an insignificant event. It must relate to the coming crash of the global system; when the great steel and glass towers of Wall Street and London and all the related structures in cities throughout the world, come crashing down —at least metaphorically. And no doubt, counted among the many towers destined to fall will be the Watchtower itself!
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
We can plainly see the world financial system starting to weaken. This chapter ends with mentioning that the white-washed wall of the Watchtower won’t be the only wall to fall at Jesus’ coming. It is something to consider that when the catastrophic events of the Great Tribulation take place, spiritual light will shine more brightly than anything we alive today have seen so far.

Here is a quote from the end of Chapter 12:

At Isaiah 30:26, Jehovah indicates the magnitude and intensity of the truth that is yet to be revealed to his people by comparing it to literal light. It reads: “And the light of the full moon will become like the light of the sun; and the light of the sun will become seven times stronger, like the light of seven days, in the day that Jehovah binds up the breakdown of his people and heals the severe wound from the blow he inflicted.

What is the setting of the occasion when the spiritual light from Jehovah will intensify sevenfold? The preceding verse of Isaiah provides the answer: “in the day of the great slaughter when the towers fall.

That day of slaughter when the towers fall cannot be an insignificant event. It must relate to the coming crash of the global system; when the great steel and glass towers of Wall Street and London and all the related structures in cities throughout the world, come crashing down —at least metaphorically. And no doubt, counted among the many towers destined to fall will be the Watchtower itself!
The condemnation of Jehovah is certainly poetic in its justice.
 
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