Finding Neverland

Citrine

Well-known member
I have to start off this post by saying I am not intending to insult or offend. These are just our observations over our entire lives in the org. It’s been discussed on here before that being in the truth in the 70s, 80s, and up to mid 90s seemed good! We had great friends, zeal for the ministry, and most importantly we were gonna be in paradise soon! No need for higher education, buying a house, or even braces - Jehovah will fix those crooked teeth soon! Our congregation had “October Frank” reminding us every October “This is it! The GT is gonna happen in October“! BTW Frank has been dead for over 10 years.

We were all determined to pioneer and not have children because “who would have children in this system?“. I recall the stir it caused in the late 80s at the SF convention when the brother‘s talk praised couples who remained childless for the sake of the good news! I’m from a very large family and the discussions after that were unanimous. I can see now that thinking deprived me and my siblings from having children and my parents from the grandchildren they never had. But that was all gonna be fixed in the new world so don’t think about it and just get back out in service.

Things started changing somewhere around the mid 90s. We live in a very affluent part of CA (born and raised here so it’s normal to us) and there are a lot of “pretty people” here. Think lots of cosmetic surgeries, fake lips, fake tans, hair extensions, etc. This began creeping into the congregation and by 2000s was the norm. About that time there was a flood of divorces and families rearranging. The double KH we attended became a child swapping fest with the divorced parents at the meeting in the two different halls and the kids running back and forth between them. There were also the childless couples who pretended to go on need greater preaching trips but were actually just exotic vacations and they took one token photo in front of the local KH. They were the rock stars and everyone wanted to be like them. It was not unusual to see the KH parking lot filled with mostly BMWs, Mercedes, and several Ferraris on Sunday. The crash of 2008 hit hard here. Many were losing their over financed homes and moving in with family. One assembly a couple we were close with were interviewed on stage and praised how they had decided to “simplify their lives“ by getting rid of their large expensive home to pioneer. That was a flat out lie! Their home was foreclosed on and they tried to hang on to it tooth and nail! Only after there was no saving it did they begin to spin the story all the way to the stage and their “good example“. 🙄

Through out the years we’ve noticed a significant amount of mental and emotional “issues” within the congregation. Almost as if a group arrested development is necessary to stay in the org and keep living in the last of the last days. As our group of friends are getting older and our parents are elderly and dying in this system and none of this was supposed to happen. It’s like everyone is living in two different worlds. Now the reality of no savings, no retirement plan, never bought a house. no children to care for them when they get older, and the years keep clipping away. For years the discussions always circled back around to the system can’t last much longer because the GB are getting older and the generation - right?

We now see many sisters in their 40s desperately trying IVF. Hardly ever do I work with a sister in my business and they’re not on some kind of anti anxiety or depression med. I know that’s a sensitive topic for many on here. I have worked with the public for years and it’s a disproportionate amount of witnesses vs non witnesses on these meds and many for decades. I had a sister in yesterday dealing with crippling anxiety and the depression of being in her 40s and still single. She could not stop crying at the thought of going back D2D but then the huge guilt of “not doing enough in the ministry”. She would even drive hours away into SF to get CBD so no one would see her and she begged me not to tell anyone. Trust me - not gonna say anything.

The arrested development we see among the sisters has been going on for many years and they encourage each other to stay in the childlike mindset. Many of the sisters have not only an obsession but an outright emotional dependence on all things Disneyland. 😳 Now I know a lot of people enjoy Disneyland and I’m not talking about the family vacation. I’m talking groups of adult, childless sisters that lived for Disney. They would plan multiple trips together per year without their husbands. They would sob and go into deep depression if they couldn’t go for any reason. Even going into debt or fighting with their husband about the expense. They wore the mouse ears like a crown for days and posted bizarre pictures of them hugging the Disney characters like they were friends. Their homes were covered in glass Disney figurines and they wore all the Mini Mouse clothing they could get away with. We have lived in multiple states on both coasts and this happened in many congregations.

In the car groups sisters would spend the morning singing the latest “original songs” from the broadcast often breaking into tears when they sang “Just around the corner” 🙄 and sometimes talk to each other in children’s voices. They couldn’t wait for the next Caleb video. I always assumed I was the one not trying hard enough to be close with them but I just couldn’t play along with their fantasy worlds. For the brothers it seems the org has focused for years on softening them down. The brothers have become so passive about everything except defending the GB. The men in the congregation are not allowed to have any real alpha qualities, perhaps that’s why we still have a no beard attitude. Can’t have strong males and maybe that’s why no elders pushed back on the v@x roll out. My husband has been so disappointed with his fellow elders and the men he looked up to. Not one would stand up to protect the congregation or even question what was happening. His talking with the other elders and the CO obviously has caused problems but we don’t care. He has often been counseled on being “too aggressive“ sorry, he’s not a house cat 🐈.

The real cherry on top happened this summer for us and the cruel reality of what the org does to peoples lives. Our long time friend died from the v, she’s the one that woke up paralyzed and died soon after. She had pioneered for close to 60 years, it’s literally all she lived for. I don’t have hardly a picture of her without a book bag in her hand. Her and I would be out till dark in service. Their only son left the truth decades before and they completely cut him off, they never got to know him of his family. When they got too old and sick he was called upon to come care for them, the parents he didn’t know now needed him. As we sat on her Zoom funeral watching the video of her life nonstop in the ministry while her old husband sobbed and the song “Just around the corner“ played over and over again like a cruel, final joke.
I know this is a long post. Just trying to make sense of a lifetime of weirdness that we just accepted as normal. Sorry if I struck a nerve for anyone. Maybe writing it out is a little therapeutic.
 

Driven

Well-known member
I have to start off this post by saying I am not intending to insult or offend. These are just our observations over our entire lives in the org. It’s been discussed on here before that being in the truth in the 70s, 80s, and up to mid 90s seemed good! We had great friends, zeal for the ministry, and most importantly we were gonna be in paradise soon! No need for higher education, buying a house, or even braces - Jehovah will fix those crooked teeth soon! Our congregation had “October Frank” reminding us every October “This is it! The GT is gonna happen in October“! BTW Frank has been dead for over 10 years.

We were all determined to pioneer and not have children because “who would have children in this system?“. I recall the stir it caused in the late 80s at the SF convention when the brother‘s talk praised couples who remained childless for the sake of the good news! I’m from a very large family and the discussions after that were unanimous. I can see now that thinking deprived me and my siblings from having children and my parents from the grandchildren they never had. But that was all gonna be fixed in the new world so don’t think about it and just get back out in service.

Things started changing somewhere around the mid 90s. We live in a very affluent part of CA (born and raised here so it’s normal to us) and there are a lot of “pretty people” here. Think lots of cosmetic surgeries, fake lips, fake tans, hair extensions, etc. This began creeping into the congregation and by 2000s was the norm. About that time there was a flood of divorces and families rearranging. The double KH we attended became a child swapping fest with the divorced parents at the meeting in the two different halls and the kids running back and forth between them. There were also the childless couples who pretended to go on need greater preaching trips but were actually just exotic vacations and they took one token photo in front of the local KH. They were the rock stars and everyone wanted to be like them. It was not unusual to see the KH parking lot filled with mostly BMWs, Mercedes, and several Ferraris on Sunday. The crash of 2008 hit hard here. Many were losing their over financed homes and moving in with family. One assembly a couple we were close with were interviewed on stage and praised how they had decided to “simplify their lives“ by getting rid of their large expensive home to pioneer. That was a flat out lie! Their home was foreclosed on and they tried to hang on to it tooth and nail! Only after there was no saving it did they begin to spin the story all the way to the stage and their “good example“. 🙄

Through out the years we’ve noticed a significant amount of mental and emotional “issues” within the congregation. Almost as if a group arrested development is necessary to stay in the org and keep living in the last of the last days. As our group of friends are getting older and our parents are elderly and dying in this system and none of this was supposed to happen. It’s like everyone is living in two different worlds. Now the reality of no savings, no retirement plan, never bought a house. no children to care for them when they get older, and the years keep clipping away. For years the discussions always circled back around to the system can’t last much longer because the GB are getting older and the generation - right?

We now see many sisters in their 40s desperately trying IVF. Hardly ever do I work with a sister in my business and they’re not on some kind of anti anxiety or depression med. I know that’s a sensitive topic for many on here. I have worked with the public for years and it’s a disproportionate amount of witnesses vs non witnesses on these meds and many for decades. I had a sister in yesterday dealing with crippling anxiety and the depression of being in her 40s and still single. She could not stop crying at the thought of going back D2D but then the huge guilt of “not doing enough in the ministry”. She would even drive hours away into SF to get CBD so no one would see her and she begged me not to tell anyone. Trust me - not gonna say anything.

The arrested development we see among the sisters has been going on for many years and they encourage each other to stay in the childlike mindset. Many of the sisters have not only an obsession but an outright emotional dependence on all things Disneyland. 😳 Now I know a lot of people enjoy Disneyland and I’m not talking about the family vacation. I’m talking groups of adult, childless sisters that lived for Disney. They would plan multiple trips together per year without their husbands. They would sob and go into deep depression if they couldn’t go for any reason. Even going into debt or fighting with their husband about the expense. They wore the mouse ears like a crown for days and posted bizarre pictures of them hugging the Disney characters like they were friends. Their homes were covered in glass Disney figurines and they wore all the Mini Mouse clothing they could get away with. We have lived in multiple states on both coasts and this happened in many congregations.

In the car groups sisters would spend the morning singing the latest “original songs” from the broadcast often breaking into tears when they sang “Just around the corner” 🙄 and sometimes talk to each other in children’s voices. They couldn’t wait for the next Caleb video. I always assumed I was the one not trying hard enough to be close with them but I just couldn’t play along with their fantasy worlds. For the brothers it seems the org has focused for years on softening them down. The brothers have become so passive about everything except defending the GB. The men in the congregation are not allowed to have any real alpha qualities, perhaps that’s why we still have a no beard attitude. Can’t have strong males and maybe that’s why no elders pushed back on the v@x roll out. My husband has been so disappointed with his fellow elders and the men he looked up to. Not one would stand up to protect the congregation or even question what was happening. His talking with the other elders and the CO obviously has caused problems but we don’t care. He has often been counseled on being “too aggressive“ sorry, he’s not a house cat 🐈.

The real cherry on top happened this summer for us and the cruel reality of what the org does to peoples lives. Our long time friend died from the v, she’s the one that woke up paralyzed and died soon after. She had pioneered for close to 60 years, it’s literally all she lived for. I don’t have hardly a picture of her without a book bag in her hand. Her and I would be out till dark in service. Their only son left the truth decades before and they completely cut him off, they never got to know him of his family. When they got too old and sick he was called upon to come care for them, the parents he didn’t know now needed him. As we sat on her Zoom funeral watching the video of her life nonstop in the ministry while her old husband sobbed and the song “Just around the corner“ played over and over again like a cruel, final joke.
I know this is a long post. Just trying to make sense of a lifetime of weirdness that we just accepted as normal. Sorry if I struck a nerve for anyone. Maybe writing it out is a little therapeutic.
I’m glad you did. It’s heartbreaking and shows how damaging it is to put blind faith in men and in commands of men. We really need to build our faith in the truth of God’s word every day to make sense of it all and pray for the strength not to be tricked or coerced into following an instruction or path that is not supported by Jesus’ teachings and his example.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
I have to start off this post by saying I am not intending to insult or offend. These are just our observations over our entire lives in the org. It’s been discussed on here before that being in the truth in the 70s, 80s, and up to mid 90s seemed good! We had great friends, zeal for the ministry, and most importantly we were gonna be in paradise soon! No need for higher education, buying a house, or even braces - Jehovah will fix those crooked teeth soon! Our congregation had “October Frank” reminding us every October “This is it! The GT is gonna happen in October“! BTW Frank has been dead for over 10 years.

We were all determined to pioneer and not have children because “who would have children in this system?“. I recall the stir it caused in the late 80s at the SF convention when the brother‘s talk praised couples who remained childless for the sake of the good news! I’m from a very large family and the discussions after that were unanimous. I can see now that thinking deprived me and my siblings from having children and my parents from the grandchildren they never had. But that was all gonna be fixed in the new world so don’t think about it and just get back out in service.

Things started changing somewhere around the mid 90s. We live in a very affluent part of CA (born and raised here so it’s normal to us) and there are a lot of “pretty people” here. Think lots of cosmetic surgeries, fake lips, fake tans, hair extensions, etc. This began creeping into the congregation and by 2000s was the norm. About that time there was a flood of divorces and families rearranging. The double KH we attended became a child swapping fest with the divorced parents at the meeting in the two different halls and the kids running back and forth between them. There were also the childless couples who pretended to go on need greater preaching trips but were actually just exotic vacations and they took one token photo in front of the local KH. They were the rock stars and everyone wanted to be like them. It was not unusual to see the KH parking lot filled with mostly BMWs, Mercedes, and several Ferraris on Sunday. The crash of 2008 hit hard here. Many were losing their over financed homes and moving in with family. One assembly a couple we were close with were interviewed on stage and praised how they had decided to “simplify their lives“ by getting rid of their large expensive home to pioneer. That was a flat out lie! Their home was foreclosed on and they tried to hang on to it tooth and nail! Only after there was no saving it did they begin to spin the story all the way to the stage and their “good example“. 🙄

Through out the years we’ve noticed a significant amount of mental and emotional “issues” within the congregation. Almost as if a group arrested development is necessary to stay in the org and keep living in the last of the last days. As our group of friends are getting older and our parents are elderly and dying in this system and none of this was supposed to happen. It’s like everyone is living in two different worlds. Now the reality of no savings, no retirement plan, never bought a house. no children to care for them when they get older, and the years keep clipping away. For years the discussions always circled back around to the system can’t last much longer because the GB are getting older and the generation - right?

We now see many sisters in their 40s desperately trying IVF. Hardly ever do I work with a sister in my business and they’re not on some kind of anti anxiety or depression med. I know that’s a sensitive topic for many on here. I have worked with the public for years and it’s a disproportionate amount of witnesses vs non witnesses on these meds and many for decades. I had a sister in yesterday dealing with crippling anxiety and the depression of being in her 40s and still single. She could not stop crying at the thought of going back D2D but then the huge guilt of “not doing enough in the ministry”. She would even drive hours away into SF to get CBD so no one would see her and she begged me not to tell anyone. Trust me - not gonna say anything.

The arrested development we see among the sisters has been going on for many years and they encourage each other to stay in the childlike mindset. Many of the sisters have not only an obsession but an outright emotional dependence on all things Disneyland. 😳 Now I know a lot of people enjoy Disneyland and I’m not talking about the family vacation. I’m talking groups of adult, childless sisters that lived for Disney. They would plan multiple trips together per year without their husbands. They would sob and go into deep depression if they couldn’t go for any reason. Even going into debt or fighting with their husband about the expense. They wore the mouse ears like a crown for days and posted bizarre pictures of them hugging the Disney characters like they were friends. Their homes were covered in glass Disney figurines and they wore all the Mini Mouse clothing they could get away with. We have lived in multiple states on both coasts and this happened in many congregations.

In the car groups sisters would spend the morning singing the latest “original songs” from the broadcast often breaking into tears when they sang “Just around the corner” 🙄 and sometimes talk to each other in children’s voices. They couldn’t wait for the next Caleb video. I always assumed I was the one not trying hard enough to be close with them but I just couldn’t play along with their fantasy worlds. For the brothers it seems the org has focused for years on softening them down. The brothers have become so passive about everything except defending the GB. The men in the congregation are not allowed to have any real alpha qualities, perhaps that’s why we still have a no beard attitude. Can’t have strong males and maybe that’s why no elders pushed back on the v@x roll out. My husband has been so disappointed with his fellow elders and the men he looked up to. Not one would stand up to protect the congregation or even question what was happening. His talking with the other elders and the CO obviously has caused problems but we don’t care. He has often been counseled on being “too aggressive“ sorry, he’s not a house cat 🐈.

The real cherry on top happened this summer for us and the cruel reality of what the org does to peoples lives. Our long time friend died from the v, she’s the one that woke up paralyzed and died soon after. She had pioneered for close to 60 years, it’s literally all she lived for. I don’t have hardly a picture of her without a book bag in her hand. Her and I would be out till dark in service. Their only son left the truth decades before and they completely cut him off, they never got to know him of his family. When they got too old and sick he was called upon to come care for them, the parents he didn’t know now needed him. As we sat on her Zoom funeral watching the video of her life nonstop in the ministry while her old husband sobbed and the song “Just around the corner“ played over and over again like a cruel, final joke.
I know this is a long post. Just trying to make sense of a lifetime of weirdness that we just accepted as normal. Sorry if I struck a nerve for anyone. Maybe writing it out is a little therapeutic.
It is a long, long time I have wished for someone to reflect my feelings as I experienced them, someone with a fellow insight. It is therapy to read it: God knows how cathartic it must have been to write it. The tentacles of watchtower have haunted my family for decades and I will never be free of it, and neither will my children. Yours is a brilliant discourse on the mental agony that watchtower has inflicted on so many. It needs to be enshrined in a testament and dispatched post haste to the GB.
 

Yupyup_yup

Well-known member
Many of the sisters have not only an obsession but an outright emotional dependence on all things Disneyland. 😳

I have absolutely seen this I never ever understood it but I know exactly what you're talking about

There are some older childless sisters in my area that really idolize disneyland to an alarming degree who force their elder husband's to bring them there every year
 

Citrine

Well-known member
It is a long, long time I have wished for someone to reflect my feelings as I experienced them, someone with a fellow insight. It is therapy to read it: God knows how cathartic it must have been to write it. The tentacles of watchtower have haunted my family for decades and I will never be free of it, and neither will my children. Yours is a brilliant discourse on the mental agony that watchtower has inflicted on so many. It needs to be enshrined in a testament and dispatched post haste to the GB.
You’re too kind. But yes it did feel really good to lay it out. These are things we never allowed ourselves to speak out loud. The purge is happening and I’m not holding back anymore.
 

Nomex

Well-known member
Great post. So much of what you wrote strikes a nerve and I think we all have had similar experiences. I think it is important to examine these things so we know we are not the crazy ones. My older brother has commented many times how smart and almost genius our father was, with a "I don't think any of us got what Dad had." While every chance he gets he advertises how smart he is. I told his son recently, who's fled the truth like a burning building, that my brother, his father is the smartest dumb person we know. And I have never told my brother that our Dad told me once, "you're the only one of my sons (5 of them) who makes any sense."

My father got baptized in 1945 so he was not raised in the truth and he butted heads with the elders many time through out the years, and all of me and my brothers had targets on our backs from an early age from the elders. Once when I was a teenager, back I guess in the 80's I gave the bible reading, and this was back when it was an actual talk, and you had an introduction, a comment in the middle and a conclusion, and the elder giving the counsel told me, "good talk but next time don't make your parents write it for you." No wonder I never wanted to be like these jerks!

I have had many brothers encourage me to "reach out" and telling me what a good elder I would be. I never really understood until now why it was never anything I wanted anything to do with that. I was thinking the other day how I could never sit on a judicial committee and treat people the way I had been treated, the way my wife was treated before we were together, and other personal experiences I've had with Elders. I just wanted nothing to do with that! I could never be part of that club, it had no appeal to me, and I always felt guilty about it until now. Recently I grew a beard and my brother made some comment about a beard hindering me from reaching out. I thought to myself, "good thing I have no desire what so ever "for reaching out."
The arrested development we see among the sisters has been going on for many years
I think it's clear it has happened with the brothers too. A few years ago I was walking with my wife and daughter about 5 at the time, and she was ahead of us on her scooter, and we round a corner and there was a loose dog up ahead. My wife whose afraid of dogs was worried about the dog, and I made a comment, "that dog is harmless", right before it charged my daughter. I sprinted towards my daughter and dog, yelling at the dog at the same time, and only got there quick enough to stop the dog from biting my daughter but not quick enough for the dog not to try. It bit at her and then ran from me, as I charged at it and chased it into the neighbors open garage all the while screaming at it. I then yelling as loud as I could in these peoples drive way, "if I see thes dog out again I'm going to shoot it." I made the mistake of telling my brother whose 12 years older than me, and an elder, this story, at which point he comments "what if I see them at them at the door." I thought to my self, "well I don't really go door to door, and I don't go to the congregation I'm assigned to any way so I don't have to worry about that any way." But I also thought "I'm going to protect my family no matter what, I don't care if he knows I'm a witness." But this is the over reaching attitude of the brothers too. They don't know what it means to be a man!
 

SeaGull

Well-known member
@Citrine -thanks for your post!
Everything you say is true. So many of us single sisters have learned to carry their load, be examples for younger single ones. - At the same time they must never be envious of sisters with loving families. - After all ' we had a large spiritual family - right?' ( only for a lot of us it was all pretend) In reality, if you weren't the one doing the reaching out, - it just didn't get done.

We had to be strong or we knew we wouldn't survive spiritually, emotionally, etc. in the cong. - Sometimes in car groups - it seemed it was alright for married sisters to complain about their husbands,and feel sorry for herself a little bit, but a single sister would not dare open her mouth to lament about loneliness, or you would be viewed as weak spiritually, - or even worse, - after their husbands. LOL. [ It was like walking a tight rope]
We had to act like good little 'spiritual robots' - until that's exactly what we became. And we either did it, or .......


So we hung on to the 'dream world' - even though we knew we didn't fit
'in with the in crowd'
We weren't supposed to have any needs either, so - you know what? - We didn't!

- and then for some of the more fortunate ones woke up!

The whole covid thing exposed the gb for who they actually were.

- and we were set free. And even if we have no family, and are
' soft shunned' - we can at last become a human being.

It's a start, 🙂 - and age doesn't matter, - all the time that has past doesn't matter, - it's starting over that counts,

Talking to our neighbors [ not preaching, just visiting] , enjoying hobbies,

People are so much more open to discuss the scriptures, when we're not pushing the org on them.
We can have a life of our own, and it's worth what ever it costs.
 

kenmuldoon55

Well-known member
Great post. So much of what you wrote strikes a nerve and I think we all have had similar experiences. I think it is important to examine these things so we know we are not the crazy ones. My older brother has commented many times how smart and almost genius our father was, with a "I don't think any of us got what Dad had." While every chance he gets he advertises how smart he is. I told his son recently, who's fled the truth like a burning building, that my brother, his father is the smartest dumb person we know. And I have never told my brother that our Dad told me once, "you're the only one of my sons (5 of them) who makes any sense."

My father got baptized in 1945 so he was not raised in the truth and he butted heads with the elders many time through out the years, and all of me and my brothers had targets on our backs from an early age from the elders. Once when I was a teenager, back I guess in the 80's I gave the bible reading, and this was back when it was an actual talk, and you had an introduction, a comment in the middle and a conclusion, and the elder giving the counsel told me, "good talk but next time don't make your parents write it for you." No wonder I never wanted to be like these jerks!

I have had many brothers encourage me to "reach out" and telling me what a good elder I would be. I never really understood until now why it was never anything I wanted anything to do with that. I was thinking the other day how I could never sit on a judicial committee and treat people the way I had been treated, the way my wife was treated before we were together, and other personal experiences I've had with Elders. I just wanted nothing to do with that! I could never be part of that club, it had no appeal to me, and I always felt guilty about it until now. Recently I grew a beard and my brother made some comment about a beard hindering me from reaching out. I thought to myself, "good thing I have no desire what so ever "for reaching out."

I think it's clear it has happened with the brothers too. A few years ago I was walking with my wife and daughter about 5 at the time, and she was ahead of us on her scooter, and we round a corner and there was a loose dog up ahead. My wife whose afraid of dogs was worried about the dog, and I made a comment, "that dog is harmless", right before it charged my daughter. I sprinted towards my daughter and dog, yelling at the dog at the same time, and only got there quick enough to stop the dog from biting my daughter but not quick enough for the dog not to try. It bit at her and then ran from me, as I charged at it and chased it into the neighbors open garage all the while screaming at it. I then yelling as loud as I could in these peoples drive way, "if I see thes dog out again I'm going to shoot it." I made the mistake of telling my brother whose 12 years older than me, and an elder, this story, at which point he comments "what if I see them at them at the door." I thought to my self, "well I don't really go door to door, and I don't go to the congregation I'm assigned to any way so I don't have to worry about that any way." But I also thought "I'm going to protect my family no matter what, I don't care if he knows I'm a witness." But this is the over reaching attitude of the brothers too. They don't know what it means to be a man!
Jesus said a prophet is not accepted in his own town anyway so not to worry.
I got a special kind of anger for idiots that let their dogs run wild.
Beat downs for both are in order.
 

Citrine

Well-known member
Great post. So much of what you wrote strikes a nerve and I think we all have had similar experiences. I think it is important to examine these things so we know we are not the crazy ones. My older brother has commented many times how smart and almost genius our father was, with a "I don't think any of us got what Dad had." While every chance he gets he advertises how smart he is. I told his son recently, who's fled the truth like a burning building, that my brother, his father is the smartest dumb person we know. And I have never told my brother that our Dad told me once, "you're the only one of my sons (5 of them) who makes any sense."

My father got baptized in 1945 so he was not raised in the truth and he butted heads with the elders many time through out the years, and all of me and my brothers had targets on our backs from an early age from the elders. Once when I was a teenager, back I guess in the 80's I gave the bible reading, and this was back when it was an actual talk, and you had an introduction, a comment in the middle and a conclusion, and the elder giving the counsel told me, "good talk but next time don't make your parents write it for you." No wonder I never wanted to be like these jerks!

I have had many brothers encourage me to "reach out" and telling me what a good elder I would be. I never really understood until now why it was never anything I wanted anything to do with that. I was thinking the other day how I could never sit on a judicial committee and treat people the way I had been treated, the way my wife was treated before we were together, and other personal experiences I've had with Elders. I just wanted nothing to do with that! I could never be part of that club, it had no appeal to me, and I always felt guilty about it until now. Recently I grew a beard and my brother made some comment about a beard hindering me from reaching out. I thought to myself, "good thing I have no desire what so ever "for reaching out."

I think it's clear it has happened with the brothers too. A few years ago I was walking with my wife and daughter about 5 at the time, and she was ahead of us on her scooter, and we round a corner and there was a loose dog up ahead. My wife whose afraid of dogs was worried about the dog, and I made a comment, "that dog is harmless", right before it charged my daughter. I sprinted towards my daughter and dog, yelling at the dog at the same time, and only got there quick enough to stop the dog from biting my daughter but not quick enough for the dog not to try. It bit at her and then ran from me, as I charged at it and chased it into the neighbors open garage all the while screaming at it. I then yelling as loud as I could in these peoples drive way, "if I see thes dog out again I'm going to shoot it." I made the mistake of telling my brother whose 12 years older than me, and an elder, this story, at which point he comments "what if I see them at them at the door." I thought to my self, "well I don't really go door to door, and I don't go to the congregation I'm assigned to any way so I don't have to worry about that any way." But I also thought "I'm going to protect my family no matter what, I don't care if he knows I'm a witness." But this is the over reaching attitude of the brothers too. They don't know what it means to be a man!
Nomex you are expressing why so many could never “take to the truth” you have inner integrity that wouldn’t allow you to conform. We have seen many similar experiences over the years but as we were so dutifully taught we viewed them as “spiritually weak”. We were in a congregation with an elder who’s twin brother had committed suicide as a teenager over their rigid, task master of an elder father. The brother said his twin was weak and probably wouldn’t have made it through Armageddon anyway 😳. He became an even more cold and exacting elder than his father. He seamed gleeful to announce someone as DF’d. We jokingly called him the executioner - not so funny now.
My husband too was counseled when he defended his son from a dangerous situation at a congregation gathering. We need more alpha males not less.
 

Citrine

Well-known member
@Citrine -thanks for your post!
Everything you say is true. So many of us single sisters have learned to carry their load, be examples for younger single ones. - At the same time they must never be envious of sisters with loving families. - After all ' we had a large spiritual family - right?' ( only for a lot of us it was all pretend) In reality, if you weren't the one doing the reaching out, - it just didn't get done.

We had to be strong or we knew we wouldn't survive spiritually, emotionally, etc. in the cong. - Sometimes in car groups - it seemed it was alright for married sisters to complain about their husbands,and feel sorry for herself a little bit, but a single sister would not dare open her mouth to lament about loneliness, or you would be viewed as weak spiritually, - or even worse, - after their husbands. LOL. [ It was like walking a tight rope]
We had to act like good little 'spiritual robots' - until that's exactly what we became. And we either did it, or .......


So we hung on to the 'dream world' - even though we knew we didn't fit
'in with the in crowd'
We weren't supposed to have any needs either, so - you know what? - We didn't!

- and then for some of the more fortunate ones woke up!

The whole covid thing exposed the gb for who they actually were.

- and we were set free. And even if we have no family, and are
' soft shunned' - we can at last become a human being.

It's a start, 🙂 - and age doesn't matter, - all the time that has past doesn't matter, - it's starting over that counts,

Talking to our neighbors [ not preaching, just visiting] , enjoying hobbies,

People are so much more open to discuss the scriptures, when we're not pushing the org on them.
We can have a life of our own, and it's worth what ever it costs.
I always felt for the single ones in the congregation. We could go over all the parts on including them but we know darn well it rarely happened and we’re guilty of that too. I never thought of that perspective from a single sister with the married sisters - gawd that’s rough. I couldn’t stand the sisters that complained nonstop about their husbands. It was like their job to complain and look for sympathy.
I agree it’s much easier now to have Bible / spiritual discussions without the WT agenda! It just happens so naturally now!
 

Driven

Well-known member
@Citrine -thanks for your post!
Everything you say is true. So many of us single sisters have learned to carry their load, be examples for younger single ones. - At the same time they must never be envious of sisters with loving families. - After all ' we had a large spiritual family - right?' ( only for a lot of us it was all pretend) In reality, if you weren't the one doing the reaching out, - it just didn't get done.

We had to be strong or we knew we wouldn't survive spiritually, emotionally, etc. in the cong. - Sometimes in car groups - it seemed it was alright for married sisters to complain about their husbands,and feel sorry for herself a little bit, but a single sister would not dare open her mouth to lament about loneliness, or you would be viewed as weak spiritually, - or even worse, - after their husbands. LOL. [ It was like walking a tight rope]
We had to act like good little 'spiritual robots' - until that's exactly what we became. And we either did it, or .......


So we hung on to the 'dream world' - even though we knew we didn't fit
'in with the in crowd'
We weren't supposed to have any needs either, so - you know what? - We didn't!

- and then for some of the more fortunate ones woke up!

The whole covid thing exposed the gb for who they actually were.

- and we were set free. And even if we have no family, and are
' soft shunned' - we can at last become a human being.

It's a start, 🙂 - and age doesn't matter, - all the time that has past doesn't matter, - it's starting over that counts,

Talking to our neighbors [ not preaching, just visiting] , enjoying hobbies,

People are so much more open to discuss the scriptures, when we're not pushing the org on them.
We can have a life of our own, and it's worth what ever it costs.
Isaiah 56:3-5: “The foreigner who joins himself to Jehovah should not say, ‘Jehovah will surely separate me from his people.’ And the eunuch should not say, ‘Look! I am a dried-up tree.’” For this is what Jehovah says to the eunuchs who keep my sabbaths and who choose what I delight in and who hold fast to my covenant: “I will give to them in my house and within my walls a monument and a name, Something better than sons and daughters. An everlasting name I will give them, One that will not perish”.
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
I had no idea about that Disneyland fixation. The Disney movie production company is a coven of witches and warlocks. Their latest production Little Demon says it all. You would think the Watchtower, with all of its rules and restrictions, would sternly warn JWs about the demonic agenda of the little kiddie fantasyland called Disney. Obviously, the masonic warlocks in Warwick approve of it. The Devil has JWs eating candy out of his hand.
 

Jah-son

Well-known member
I have to start off this post by saying I am not intending to insult or offend. These are just our observations over our entire lives in the org. It’s been discussed on here before that being in the truth in the 70s, 80s, and up to mid 90s seemed good! We had great friends, zeal for the ministry, and most importantly we were gonna be in paradise soon! No need for higher education, buying a house, or even braces - Jehovah will fix those crooked teeth soon! Our congregation had “October Frank” reminding us every October “This is it! The GT is gonna happen in October“! BTW Frank has been dead for over 10 years.

We were all determined to pioneer and not have children because “who would have children in this system?“. I recall the stir it caused in the late 80s at the SF convention when the brother‘s talk praised couples who remained childless for the sake of the good news! I’m from a very large family and the discussions after that were unanimous. I can see now that thinking deprived me and my siblings from having children and my parents from the grandchildren they never had. But that was all gonna be fixed in the new world so don’t think about it and just get back out in service.

Things started changing somewhere around the mid 90s. We live in a very affluent part of CA (born and raised here so it’s normal to us) and there are a lot of “pretty people” here. Think lots of cosmetic surgeries, fake lips, fake tans, hair extensions, etc. This began creeping into the congregation and by 2000s was the norm. About that time there was a flood of divorces and families rearranging. The double KH we attended became a child swapping fest with the divorced parents at the meeting in the two different halls and the kids running back and forth between them. There were also the childless couples who pretended to go on need greater preaching trips but were actually just exotic vacations and they took one token photo in front of the local KH. They were the rock stars and everyone wanted to be like them. It was not unusual to see the KH parking lot filled with mostly BMWs, Mercedes, and several Ferraris on Sunday. The crash of 2008 hit hard here. Many were losing their over financed homes and moving in with family. One assembly a couple we were close with were interviewed on stage and praised how they had decided to “simplify their lives“ by getting rid of their large expensive home to pioneer. That was a flat out lie! Their home was foreclosed on and they tried to hang on to it tooth and nail! Only after there was no saving it did they begin to spin the story all the way to the stage and their “good example“. 🙄

Through out the years we’ve noticed a significant amount of mental and emotional “issues” within the congregation. Almost as if a group arrested development is necessary to stay in the org and keep living in the last of the last days. As our group of friends are getting older and our parents are elderly and dying in this system and none of this was supposed to happen. It’s like everyone is living in two different worlds. Now the reality of no savings, no retirement plan, never bought a house. no children to care for them when they get older, and the years keep clipping away. For years the discussions always circled back around to the system can’t last much longer because the GB are getting older and the generation - right?

We now see many sisters in their 40s desperately trying IVF. Hardly ever do I work with a sister in my business and they’re not on some kind of anti anxiety or depression med. I know that’s a sensitive topic for many on here. I have worked with the public for years and it’s a disproportionate amount of witnesses vs non witnesses on these meds and many for decades. I had a sister in yesterday dealing with crippling anxiety and the depression of being in her 40s and still single. She could not stop crying at the thought of going back D2D but then the huge guilt of “not doing enough in the ministry”. She would even drive hours away into SF to get CBD so no one would see her and she begged me not to tell anyone. Trust me - not gonna say anything.

The arrested development we see among the sisters has been going on for many years and they encourage each other to stay in the childlike mindset. Many of the sisters have not only an obsession but an outright emotional dependence on all things Disneyland. 😳 Now I know a lot of people enjoy Disneyland and I’m not talking about the family vacation. I’m talking groups of adult, childless sisters that lived for Disney. They would plan multiple trips together per year without their husbands. They would sob and go into deep depression if they couldn’t go for any reason. Even going into debt or fighting with their husband about the expense. They wore the mouse ears like a crown for days and posted bizarre pictures of them hugging the Disney characters like they were friends. Their homes were covered in glass Disney figurines and they wore all the Mini Mouse clothing they could get away with. We have lived in multiple states on both coasts and this happened in many congregations.

In the car groups sisters would spend the morning singing the latest “original songs” from the broadcast often breaking into tears when they sang “Just around the corner” 🙄 and sometimes talk to each other in children’s voices. They couldn’t wait for the next Caleb video. I always assumed I was the one not trying hard enough to be close with them but I just couldn’t play along with their fantasy worlds. For the brothers it seems the org has focused for years on softening them down. The brothers have become so passive about everything except defending the GB. The men in the congregation are not allowed to have any real alpha qualities, perhaps that’s why we still have a no beard attitude. Can’t have strong males and maybe that’s why no elders pushed back on the v@x roll out. My husband has been so disappointed with his fellow elders and the men he looked up to. Not one would stand up to protect the congregation or even question what was happening. His talking with the other elders and the CO obviously has caused problems but we don’t care. He has often been counseled on being “too aggressive“ sorry, he’s not a house cat 🐈.

The real cherry on top happened this summer for us and the cruel reality of what the org does to peoples lives. Our long time friend died from the v, she’s the one that woke up paralyzed and died soon after. She had pioneered for close to 60 years, it’s literally all she lived for. I don’t have hardly a picture of her without a book bag in her hand. Her and I would be out till dark in service. Their only son left the truth decades before and they completely cut him off, they never got to know him of his family. When they got too old and sick he was called upon to come care for them, the parents he didn’t know now needed him. As we sat on her Zoom funeral watching the video of her life nonstop in the ministry while her old husband sobbed and the song “Just around the corner“ played over and over again like a cruel, final joke.
I know this is a long post. Just trying to make sense of a lifetime of weirdness that we just accepted as normal. Sorry if I struck a nerve for anyone. Maybe writing it out is a little therapeutic.
OMG! I can really relate to most of what you have written. Some of the people on this forum know that I originate from Colorado. Grew up in mostly rural areas. I've seen over my lifetime what we call the Californication of my home state. Yes, Californians are a different breed (I'll leave it at that). No offence to my Cali bros. Many of the things you described in your post, I've experienced or observed to one degree or another. What really caught my attention is the arrested development observation. It is completely unnatural for young single women to put out of their minds and hearts, the natural desire to procreate and raise offspring. JWs would never admit it, but it is emotional torture to deprive someone of fulfilling that perfectly natural desire, a gift from Jehovah.

There is one sister in particular whose family was instrumental in my early spiritual growth. She happens to have a good friend that she grew up with who ended up marrying a Californian who was a friend of mine back then. This sister fits your Disney worship category to a T. I never realized that this was a "thing" and so pervasive but now it makes sense. And no brother in his right mind would view her as mature, stable wife material, so needless to say, she is my age (nearing 50) and still single. I follow her on IG and it's regular trips to Disneyland with her single friends, mouse ear hats and all you described. I always thought it was a strange obsession of hers alone. It's obviously a psychological coping mechanism that they've developed. It makes me want to cry and punch someone in the face at the same time! What a shame on the org. Just makes me question everything. SMH.
 

Nomex

Well-known member
He seamed gleeful to announce someone as DF’d. We jokingly called him the executioner - not so funny now.
There was an elder in one Hall I was in, that I could not stand, he commented during a WT study about people complaining about bad treeatment by the Elders in judicial meetings, he says this, "it's like a person getting pulled over by the police for speeding and complaining about getting a speeding ticket, never mind they deserved the speeding ticket." It made me so mad I walked out into the parking lot and called my father and told him what he said. My father who was an elder fro decades says, "I know, there's some bad actors out there." Or something like that!
 

Medi-tator

Well-known member
There was an elder in one Hall I was in, that I could not stand, he commented during a WT study about people complaining about bad treeatment by the Elders in judicial meetings, he says this, "it's like a person getting pulled over by the police for speeding and complaining about getting a speeding ticket, never mind they deserved the speeding ticket." It made me so mad I walked out into the parking lot and called my father and told him what he said. My father who was an elder fro decades says, "I know, there's some bad actors out there." Or something like that!
Like you or someone, possibly Mick or Bagdad said, some elders if not many elders are not really shepherds but are simply enforcers of WT policy. Uggghhhh!
 

Citrine

Well-known member
I had no idea about that Disneyland fixation. The Disney movie production company is a coven of witches and warlocks. Their latest production Little Demon says it all. You would think the Watchtower, with all of its rules and restrictions, would sternly warn JWs about the demonic agenda of the little kiddie fantasyland called Disney. Obviously, the masonic warlocks in Warwick approve of it. The Devil has JWs eating candy out of his hand.
Absolutely! Disney doesn’t even hide their black magic and the friends can’t get enough of it! The ears symbolize that they are under the “spell”! They’re paying big $$$ to be mocked and play in the elites “fantasy land”! 🤮
 

PJ54

Well-known member
I had no idea about that Disneyland fixation. The Disney movie production company is a coven of witches and warlocks. Their latest production Little Demon says it all. You would think the Watchtower, with all of its rules and restrictions, would sternly warn JWs about the demonic agenda of the little kiddie fantasyland called Disney. Obviously, the masonic warlocks in Warwick approve of it. The Devil has JWs eating candy out of his hand.
Absolutely! Disney doesn’t even hide their black magic and the friends can’t get enough of it! The ears symbolize that they are under the “spell”! They’re paying big $$$ to be mocked and play in the elites “fantasy land”! 🤮
IIRC Disney has some affiliating to MLK-Ultra, so there could be some kind psy-op happening. It's like those sisters are mentally shattered & since they have child like voices, it makes me wonder if they were abused when they were children. Plus, the men are turning gay it seems. The devil through the KOTN will really mislead many into apostasy with smooth words, perhaps even making them model citizens for the 8th king.
 

Patricia

Well-known member
I had no idea about that Disneyland fixation. The Disney movie production company is a coven of witches and warlocks. Their latest production Little Demon says it all. You would think the Watchtower, with all of its rules and restrictions, would sternly warn JWs about the demonic agenda of the little kiddie fantasyland called Disney. Obviously, the masonic warlocks in Warwick approve of it. The Devil has JWs eating candy out of his hand.
When I was a kid I wasn't allowed to watch the Disney movies. We were told that magic, witches, and fairies etc. were off limits. What happened? What's next, will they be holding seances, talking to dead people---oh wait they already think they're hearing voices from the dead---my bad. 👻
Afterthought --- no disrespect to anointed that are no longer with us intended
 
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