Finding Neverland

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
Cathy Obrien who is my neighbor and friend was a whitehouse MK-Ultra slave. This video was from 1995....listen how many times she talks about the New World Order from back then and references events that we see happening today. Her story is horrific. She is very active today and is getting her message out as to the plan of the New World Order.
Yes, I listened to her in an interview years ago. It was pretty eerie, but especially now, I can believe her story.
 
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BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
You’re too kind. But yes it did feel really good to lay it out. These are things we never allowed ourselves to speak out loud. The purge is happening and I’m not holding back anymore.
I have never been able to write down what the watchtower did to me and my family. Its outcomes span nigh on 50 years now and took all that we had, which was precious little as it was. I am the sole survivor of my family in terms of living a faith in Jehovah but even then, it was a long sojourn without Him in terms of coming to understand and relearn the truth in (some) of its many facets and deeper meanings. I am confident that Jehovah will view my children with mercy because they would have been fine followers of His word had circumstances been different. Children cannot grow to love their assailants and persecutors in the very organisation that supposedly was full of love, care and in command of a “spiritual paradise” on the one hand, while putting Auschwitz to shame on the other. None of us are alone in such a story to tell. I sometimes feel broken in two when I read of the trials that others have been through in these pages here. It will end, and it’s true that they will not be brought to mind again, but until that day comes, we have to live with these torments while the GB wallow in the cesspit of iniquity while slandering Jehovah with claims of their love and dedication in “channeling” His reflection to us. They have absolutely no idea of what coals they heap upon their very heads. I am sure your words encapsulate the feelings of many here and speak for us about the feelings that are so difficult to put forth as you have done so with such eloquence. Justice has to be seen to be done if healing is to be achieved. That day will come.
 

Nomex

Well-known member
I have never been able to write down what the watchtower did to me and my family. Its outcomes span nigh on 50 years now and took all that we had, which was precious little as it was. I am the sole survivor of my family in terms of living a faith in Jehovah but even then, it was a long sojourn without Him in terms of coming to understand and relearn the truth in (some) of its many facets and deeper meanings. I am confident that Jehovah will view my children with mercy because they would have been fine followers of His word had circumstances been different. Children cannot grow to love their assailants and persecutors in the very organisation that supposedly was full of love, care and in command of a “spiritual paradise” on the one hand, while putting Auschwitz to shame on the other. None of us are alone in such a story to tell. I sometimes feel broken in two when I read of the trials that others have been through in these pages here. It will end, and it’s true that they will not be brought to mind again, but until that day comes, we have to live with these torments while the GB wallow in the cesspit of iniquity while slandering Jehovah with claims of their love and dedication in “channeling” His reflection to us. They have absolutely no idea of what coals they heap upon their very heads. I am sure your words encapsulate the feelings of many here and speak for us about the feelings that are so difficult to put forth as you have done so with such eloquence. Justice has to be seen to be done if healing is to be achieved. That day will come.
You are a brother from another mother to be sure. I almost feel guilty about our little "disputes", although you know in your heart I am the better man. LOL. All kidding aside, I missed you when you were missing here and worried that my joking did not somehow turn you away. Only because I want you here, you make me look good after all.

OK. I mean it this time all joking aside....honestly, I don't get your humor all the time, thast's oOK, I think you don't get mine either....OK. But dear God don't you leave me!
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
You are a brother from another mother to be sure. I almost feel guilty about our little "disputes", although you know in your heart I am the better man. LOL. All kidding aside, I missed you when you were missing here and worried that my joking did not somehow turn you away. Only because I want you here, you make me look good after all.

OK. I mean it this time all joking aside....honestly, I don't get your humor all the time, thast's oOK, I think you don't get mine either....OK. But dear God don't you leave me!
I love that Nomex! That’s very thoughtful for you to say. But you are one of a kind and so is Barnaby.
Diversity can be grand!

You haven’t figured out Barnaby yet? It’s that British humor…but you gotta love it!

I think yall will always be brothers!
 

evw

Well-known member
I was planning on starting a new thread with this story but I think it probably fits well here so I will just post it in this one if that's okay.

Venting: Where is the love!?

We moved into our current congregation back in April. Our first meeting was the memorial 2022. There is a single sister who also started attending this congregation at the same time we did whom we knew from another congregation. We both had moved into the area during the plandemic.

This is a rural congregation and there are predominantly two families that make up over half the congregation. The patriarch of one of the families acts as the COBE. He is a company man and strictly dominates the other elders like I've never experienced in any of the many congregations that I've been in throughout the years. Most of the other elders are quite passive and submit to his domineering attitude. He has a very strict leadership style and wants things done his way. My wife can't stand it and has been begging me to explore other congregations in the area, even if that means driving 15 mins to another hall. The current hall is 5 mins from us.

That being said, back to the single sister who moved in around the same time we did. She is struggling to get by and does not own a vehicle. She lives about 10 minutes from the Kingdom Hall (drive time). The road she lives on is off of the main road that leads back to our small village. The road is in complete disrepair with huge potholes throughout the section back to her house which is about a quarter to half mile from the main road. In order for her to get to meetings she would either need a ride from one of the brothers or she would have to make her way on foot down to the main road where she would need to flag down a ride (local private taxi - basically a private car owner who makes side money giving people rides). She has had to fight off dogs in the area on her way, including a rottweiler. Here's the kicker - there are 3 witnesses families who live on her street including a MS and her Service Group overseer! She lives a little further back then they do but not much maybe less than 5 minutes Drive. The first meeting other than the memorial that she attempted to attend, she proceeded to walk down the road and all three families were leaving their homes for the meeting and did not take notice of her walking to the meeting to offer a ride. Since then they have occasionally given her rides but it's always her who has to ask and she feels guilty for having to ask all the time.

My wife has befriended her and made arrangements to work with her in the ministry this morning. But no one else knew that. So this morning my wife was communicating with her to confirm their Arrangements and the sister was in need of a ride to the Kingdom Hall where we were meeting. So on the way to pick her up we stopped by the Kingdom Hall to notify them that we would probably be a bit late to the meeting and that they would need to make arrangements for me to work with somebody and give us some directions if we were late.
Guess who was already there at the meeting? That's right, her own field service overseer and his family along with one of the other families on her street.

By the time we picked her up I was livid! She had walked a portion of the way to meet us avoiding mud puddles. I told her when she got in the car, that I had to apologize for the unloving conduct of my brothers as I was choking with emotion which made her emotional. I posed this question to her, how can we go preach love to our neighbors when we neglect the simple acts of love among ourselves. Paul said, 1 Cor 13: 1-3 "If I speak in the tongues of men and of angels but do not have love, I have become a clanging gong or a clashing cymbal. 2 And if I have the gift of prophecy and understand all the sacred secrets and all knowledge, and if I have all the faith so as to move mountains, but do not have love, I am nothing."

We arrived at the KH just in time for the closing prayer of the service meeting. How convenient. We walked up to the opened doors of the Hall and all present could see that we were late because of the neglect of the others. I was staring down the neglectful elder during the prayer eyes wide open. He opened his eyes and saw me glaring at him. My wife said that she could sense that his wife was embarrassed, as she should be. Needless to say we will be checking out the other congregation in the area next week and if we happen to change congregations my plan is to reject any new appointment to serve in any capacity and only attend to support my wife. Honestly, I just can't take it much longer.
so humiliating and devastated. 2 Tim 3:1-5 comes to mind......
 

Jah-son

Well-known member
This burns me up but unfortunately it’s not an isolated experience. Thank you for being so kind. BTW how do you deal with going in service? Sincere question - how are you handling it?
To be completely honest, I've never enjoyed the door to door ministry. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. I've always had to force myself to do it. I'm quite the introvert so I don't enjoy uncomfortable conversations with strangers which is what most of d2d is.

In fact, in my 30 years as a JW I've never had a bible student that I got from d2d. They were always referrals or family. I'm not very skilled at return visits either. But I have enjoyed conducting bible Studies in the past. I tend to put myself in the place of the householder at the door and realize that I wouldn't want someone pushing something on me. I can't stand working with pushy publishers.

When I reflect on it now, perhaps in my heart, I knew that many of the doctrines were not correct so that may have prevented me from giving my all.

That being said, since I've been "awakened" my desire to preach JW doctrine has dwindled. I'm mostly motivated by a desire to support my PIMI wife and if I can share basic Bible truth with someone...well at least I'm still following Christ's command to preach the good news. But the past few months have been the least amount of service time I've ever recorded. I'm very de-motivated altogether. I typically just use either a scriptural presentation or a tract since they contain mostly basic Bible truths. I'm not going to promote WT doctrine. I typically try to focus on God's kingdom since that is what Jesus taught us to focus on with our ministry. If I ever get an actual study, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there. I would probably teach the student the basics and when we get to WT doctrine I would warn them and tell them to do their research.

I'm in a tough position with my wife being PIMI. I don't want to stir the pot too much so My new goal is to fade as much as possible while still supporting her. Interestingly, she has kind of been following my lead. I feel that her desire to change congregations is an opportunity for me to step down. I'm a firm believer in the power of intention. It's all about focusing ones energies on a goal, then slowly and consistently making concerted moves toward that goal. The universe will fall in line. We just have to find the rhythm and frequency and harmonize with it. We really can "bend spoons". I've experienced it happen throughout my lifetime and now I am becoming more aware of it.

I digress, hopefully that answers your question. Are you still active in the formal ministry? I'd like to hear how you are coping likewise.
 

Charming Primrose

Well-known member
I have to start off this post by saying I am not intending to insult or offend. These are just our observations over our entire lives in the org. It’s been discussed on here before that being in the truth in the 70s, 80s, and up to mid 90s seemed good! We had great friends, zeal for the ministry, and most importantly we were gonna be in paradise soon! No need for higher education, buying a house, or even braces - Jehovah will fix those crooked teeth soon! Our congregation had “October Frank” reminding us every October “This is it! The GT is gonna happen in October“! BTW Frank has been dead for over 10 years.

We were all determined to pioneer and not have children because “who would have children in this system?“. I recall the stir it caused in the late 80s at the SF convention when the brother‘s talk praised couples who remained childless for the sake of the good news! I’m from a very large family and the discussions after that were unanimous. I can see now that thinking deprived me and my siblings from having children and my parents from the grandchildren they never had. But that was all gonna be fixed in the new world so don’t think about it and just get back out in service.

Things started changing somewhere around the mid 90s. We live in a very affluent part of CA (born and raised here so it’s normal to us) and there are a lot of “pretty people” here. Think lots of cosmetic surgeries, fake lips, fake tans, hair extensions, etc. This began creeping into the congregation and by 2000s was the norm. About that time there was a flood of divorces and families rearranging. The double KH we attended became a child swapping fest with the divorced parents at the meeting in the two different halls and the kids running back and forth between them. There were also the childless couples who pretended to go on need greater preaching trips but were actually just exotic vacations and they took one token photo in front of the local KH. They were the rock stars and everyone wanted to be like them. It was not unusual to see the KH parking lot filled with mostly BMWs, Mercedes, and several Ferraris on Sunday. The crash of 2008 hit hard here. Many were losing their over financed homes and moving in with family. One assembly a couple we were close with were interviewed on stage and praised how they had decided to “simplify their lives“ by getting rid of their large expensive home to pioneer. That was a flat out lie! Their home was foreclosed on and they tried to hang on to it tooth and nail! Only after there was no saving it did they begin to spin the story all the way to the stage and their “good example“. 🙄

Through out the years we’ve noticed a significant amount of mental and emotional “issues” within the congregation. Almost as if a group arrested development is necessary to stay in the org and keep living in the last of the last days. As our group of friends are getting older and our parents are elderly and dying in this system and none of this was supposed to happen. It’s like everyone is living in two different worlds. Now the reality of no savings, no retirement plan, never bought a house. no children to care for them when they get older, and the years keep clipping away. For years the discussions always circled back around to the system can’t last much longer because the GB are getting older and the generation - right?

We now see many sisters in their 40s desperately trying IVF. Hardly ever do I work with a sister in my business and they’re not on some kind of anti anxiety or depression med. I know that’s a sensitive topic for many on here. I have worked with the public for years and it’s a disproportionate amount of witnesses vs non witnesses on these meds and many for decades. I had a sister in yesterday dealing with crippling anxiety and the depression of being in her 40s and still single. She could not stop crying at the thought of going back D2D but then the huge guilt of “not doing enough in the ministry”. She would even drive hours away into SF to get CBD so no one would see her and she begged me not to tell anyone. Trust me - not gonna say anything.

The arrested development we see among the sisters has been going on for many years and they encourage each other to stay in the childlike mindset. Many of the sisters have not only an obsession but an outright emotional dependence on all things Disneyland. 😳 Now I know a lot of people enjoy Disneyland and I’m not talking about the family vacation. I’m talking groups of adult, childless sisters that lived for Disney. They would plan multiple trips together per year without their husbands. They would sob and go into deep depression if they couldn’t go for any reason. Even going into debt or fighting with their husband about the expense. They wore the mouse ears like a crown for days and posted bizarre pictures of them hugging the Disney characters like they were friends. Their homes were covered in glass Disney figurines and they wore all the Mini Mouse clothing they could get away with. We have lived in multiple states on both coasts and this happened in many congregations.

In the car groups sisters would spend the morning singing the latest “original songs” from the broadcast often breaking into tears when they sang “Just around the corner” 🙄 and sometimes talk to each other in children’s voices. They couldn’t wait for the next Caleb video. I always assumed I was the one not trying hard enough to be close with them but I just couldn’t play along with their fantasy worlds. For the brothers it seems the org has focused for years on softening them down. The brothers have become so passive about everything except defending the GB. The men in the congregation are not allowed to have any real alpha qualities, perhaps that’s why we still have a no beard attitude. Can’t have strong males and maybe that’s why no elders pushed back on the v@x roll out. My husband has been so disappointed with his fellow elders and the men he looked up to. Not one would stand up to protect the congregation or even question what was happening. His talking with the other elders and the CO obviously has caused problems but we don’t care. He has often been counseled on being “too aggressive“ sorry, he’s not a house cat 🐈.

The real cherry on top happened this summer for us and the cruel reality of what the org does to peoples lives. Our long time friend died from the v, she’s the one that woke up paralyzed and died soon after. She had pioneered for close to 60 years, it’s literally all she lived for. I don’t have hardly a picture of her without a book bag in her hand. Her and I would be out till dark in service. Their only son left the truth decades before and they completely cut him off, they never got to know him of his family. When they got too old and sick he was called upon to come care for them, the parents he didn’t know now needed him. As we sat on her Zoom funeral watching the video of her life nonstop in the ministry while her old husband sobbed and the song “Just around the corner“ played over and over again like a cruel, final joke.
I know this is a long post. Just trying to make sense of a lifetime of weirdness that we just accepted as normal. Sorry if I struck a nerve for anyone. Maybe writing it out is a little therapeutic.
😵‍💫 Wow….thank you for sharing this. I’m speechless. I mean…..everything you have just said I have seen personally or know people this has happened too. Really, i have nothing to say, & that’s a first.
 

Charming Primrose

Well-known member
@Citrine -thanks for your post!
Everything you say is true. So many of us single sisters have learned to carry their load, be examples for younger single ones. - At the same time they must never be envious of sisters with loving families. - After all ' we had a large spiritual family - right?' ( only for a lot of us it was all pretend) In reality, if you weren't the one doing the reaching out, - it just didn't get done.

We had to be strong or we knew we wouldn't survive spiritually, emotionally, etc. in the cong. - Sometimes in car groups - it seemed it was alright for married sisters to complain about their husbands,and feel sorry for herself a little bit, but a single sister would not dare open her mouth to lament about loneliness, or you would be viewed as weak spiritually, - or even worse, - after their husbands. LOL. [ It was like walking a tight rope]
We had to act like good little 'spiritual robots' - until that's exactly what we became. And we either did it, or .......


So we hung on to the 'dream world' - even though we knew we didn't fit
'in with the in crowd'
We weren't supposed to have any needs either, so - you know what? - We didn't!

- and then for some of the more fortunate ones woke up!

The whole covid thing exposed the gb for who they actually were.

- and we were set free. And even if we have no family, and are
' soft shunned' - we can at last become a human being.

It's a start, 🙂 - and age doesn't matter, - all the time that has past doesn't matter, - it's starting over that counts,

Talking to our neighbors [ not preaching, just visiting] , enjoying hobbies,

People are so much more open to discuss the scriptures, when we're not pushing the org on them.
We can have a life of our own, and it's worth what ever it costs.
Yes! This is what I’ve been doing for years now, preaching without shoving the org down their throats. It is a much more ‘successful’ route to reach the hearts of people.
♥️ To you for your sacrifice ((Hugs))
 

MuleJule

Well-known member
I'd like to confirm what others have seen & experienced among the general JW population. I'm also not here to judge or condemn, but I have observed similar patterns over the years. I always wondered what was wrong with me, because I tried and tried but could not fit in any of the circles. Mostly because the cringe behaviors and attitudes described in posts here. It sucked the life out of me to even pretend to enjoy being around so many. In car groups with several simultaneous conversations happening, while I was always the driver trying to figure out where to go, how to get there, keeping the house to house record, watching for no tresspassing or do not calls. No wonder service gave me migraines. I would have to be the "mom" to a group of sisters older than me. Telling them it was their turn to get out, that they were being too loud walking up to houses, I could hear them talking from across the street, or they would be talking/gossiping while knocking when there was security cameras clearly on. Exhausting.

Don't even get me started on the pre-arranged car groups and how the "leftovers" always had to work together because the cliques had to be with their own. Yes I was a leftover, but everyone wanted to work with me because I had a big vehicle and I was easy. All they had to do was pile in, and start chatting. I made all the decisions, fought with traffic and tried to focus on the task at hand. (I have a doozy of a C.O. story about pre-arranged groups. It was very traumatic and while I am finally over it, when I relate the experience I still get shaky and my stomach knots).

If I ever would start getting close to someone, then I would eventually have to put up a boundary to protect my mental health, which was not well received.

And it's true, the majority whom I know personally ARE ON ANTI-DEPRESSANTS and/or ANTI-ANXIETY and other meds that allow them to continue with the lifestyle. Many others I know, including my own father are alcoholics, and this is seldom mentioned as most everyone seems okay with it. Helping my dad move last week, he had 6-7 boxes of booze that were his main concern and he built a little shrine (okay it was a bar) to house and display all the pretty bottles. He made me a gin & tonic, and I have to admit it was delicious, but I seldom drink. We can't keep the stuff in the house. If it's here the PIMI hubby will chug bottle by bottle until they are all empty. It's a coping mechanism. I understand.

As far as the arrested development, it's interesting that this does seem to be a pattern, even with the Disney obsession. I follow several sisters on Instagram who make a yearly Disney pilgrimage, and it seems to be the highlight of their life. Posing with the characters and the whole nine yards. We even had 2 sisters host a Disney Princess Party several years ago. Moms and daughters had to dress as princesses. I was a rebel and went as Princess Leia from Star Wars 😆 And there was actually a Marvel super hero costume party here recently. Yeah that seems to be a strange obsession too.

I could probably write a book covering the insane behavior and crazy experiences I have observed over my years. I'm glad I now understand the reason I struggled so much was because I was a square peg trying to force myself into a round hole. I couldn't be authentic and be accepted. Now I am working toward authenticity, and it's a relief to just sit back and watch the $%#@ show and not be a part of it. I hope I can help pull them out of it once day, because there are truly so many sincere, but damaged individuals.
 

Charming Primrose

Well-known member
I'd like to confirm what others have seen & experienced among the general JW population. I'm also not here to judge or condemn, but I have observed similar patterns over the years. I always wondered what was wrong with me, because I tried and tried but could not fit in any of the circles. Mostly because the cringe behaviors and attitudes described in posts here. It sucked the life out of me to even pretend to enjoy being around so many. In car groups with several simultaneous conversations happening over the noise, while I was always the driver trying to figure out where to go, how to get there, keeping the house to house record, watching for no tresspassing or do not calls. No wonder service gave me migraines. I would have to be the "mom" to a group of sisters older than me. Telling them it was their turn to get out, that they were being too loud walking up to houses, I could hear them talking from across the street, or they would be talking/gossiping while knocking when there was security cameras clearly on. Exhausting.

Don't even get me started on the pre-arranged car groups and how the "leftovers" always had to work together because the cliques had to be with their own. Yes I was a leftover, but everyone wanted to work with me because I had a big vehicle and I was easy. All they had to do was pile in, and start chatting. I made all the decisions, fought with traffic and tried to focus on the task at hand. (I have a doozy of a C.O. story about pre-arranged groups. It was very traumatic and while I am finally over it, when I relate the experience I still get shaky and my stomach knots).

If I ever would start getting close to someone, then I would eventually have to put up a boundary to protect my mental health, which was not well received.

And it's true, the majority whom I know personally ARE ON ANTI-DEPRESSANTS and/or ANTI-ANXIETY and other meds that allow them to continue with the lifestyle. Many others I know, including my own father are alcoholics, and this is seldom mentioned as most everyone seems okay with it. Helping my dad move last week, he had 6-7 boxes of booze that were his main concern and he built a little shrine (okay it was a bar) to house and display all the pretty bottles. He made me a gin & tonic, and I have to admit it was delicious, but I seldom drink. We can't keep the stuff in the house. If it's here the PIMI hubby will chug bottle by bottle until they are all empty. It's a coping mechanism. I understand.

As far as the arrested development, it's interesting that this does seem to be a pattern, even with the Disney obsession. I follow several sisters on Instagram who make a yearly Disney pilgrimage, and it seems to be the highlight of their life. Posing with the characters and the whole nine yards. We even had 2 sisters host a Disney Princess Party several years ago. Moms and daughters had to dress as princesses. I was a rebel and went as Princess Leia from Star Wars 😆 And there was actually a Marvel super hero costume party here recently. Yeah that seems to be a strange obsession too.

I could probably write a book covering the insane behavior and crazy experiences I have observed over my years. I'm glad I now understand the reason I struggled so much was because I was a square peg trying to force myself into a round hole. I couldn't be authentic and be accepted. Now I am working toward authenticity, and it's a relief to just sit back and watch the $%#@ show and not be a part of it. I hope I can help pull them out of it once day, because there are truly so many sincere, but damaged individuals.
♥️
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
You are a brother from another mother to be sure. I almost feel guilty about our little "disputes", although you know in your heart I am the better man. LOL. All kidding aside, I missed you when you were missing here and worried that my joking did not somehow turn you away. Only because I want you here, you make me look good after all.

OK. I mean it this time all joking aside....honestly, I don't get your humor all the time, thast's oOK, I think you don't get mine either....OK. But dear God don't you leave me
Nomex, worry not! The Anglo-American relationship is fine and is forged from the fire of the good news and nothing can tear it apart. Besides which, I always let you win the argument. I get few enough replies as it is, and so each one is treasured. And of course, yes I can admit to faults. I used to be conceited, but now that I’m perfect that is no longer a problem. I know that Americans have a sense of humour - one would need a sense of humour to be able to get over the spelling problem, but I remember distinctly, my father telling me an American joke. This is it: are you sitting down? Put down any knife or gun you may be holding….What time is it when two Ford cars pass each other? Tin past Tin. So there is solid proof. Germans of course have no sense of humour, so jokes about Hitler are wasted on them.
 

Citrine

Well-known member
To be completely honest, I've never enjoyed the door to door ministry. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. I've always had to force myself to do it. I'm quite the introvert so I don't enjoy uncomfortable conversations with strangers which is what most of d2d is.

In fact, in my 30 years as a JW I've never had a bible student that I got from d2d. They were always referrals or family. I'm not very skilled at return visits either. But I have enjoyed conducting bible Studies in the past. I tend to put myself in the place of the householder at the door and realize that I wouldn't want someone pushing something on me. I can't stand working with pushy publishers.

When I reflect on it now, perhaps in my heart, I knew that many of the doctrines were not correct so that may have prevented me from giving my all.

That being said, since I've been "awakened" my desire to preach JW doctrine has dwindled. I'm mostly motivated by a desire to support my PIMI wife and if I can share basic Bible truth with someone...well at least I'm still following Christ's command to preach the good news. But the past few months have been the least amount of service time I've ever recorded. I'm very de-motivated altogether. I typically just use either a scriptural presentation or a tract since they contain mostly basic Bible truths. I'm not going to promote WT doctrine. I typically try to focus on God's kingdom since that is what Jesus taught us to focus on with our ministry. If I ever get an actual study, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there. I would probably teach the student the basics and when we get to WT doctrine I would warn them and tell them to do their research.

I'm in a tough position with my wife being PIMI. I don't want to stir the pot too much so My new goal is to fade as much as possible while still supporting her. Interestingly, she has kind of been following my lead. I feel that her desire to change congregations is an opportunity for me to step down. I'm a firm believer in the power of intention. It's all about focusing ones energies on a goal, then slowly and consistently making concerted moves toward that goal. The universe will fall in line. We just have to find the rhythm and frequency and harmonize with it. We really can "bend spoons". I've experienced it happen throughout my lifetime and now I am becoming more aware of it.

I digress, hopefully that answers your question. Are you still active in the formal ministry? I'd like to hear how you are coping likewise.
We’re not doing any formal ministry and haven’t for at least a year. We were keeping up pretty good with Zoom letter writing until the cvd updates and then we just stopped. We can’t in good conscience direct others to the org. That was a difficult time for us as we grappled with what our preaching would look like going forward. We have done a few random Zoom service appearances cause my husband is still a group overseer which is getting weirder by the day. When we’ve been on we’re not writing letters, we’re either online shopping or I’m on this group! 😆 Just being honest. But I am happy to report that after much prayer asking for direction on how and what to preach we are now having really good Bible discussions with work associations and customers! It’s happening so easily and our conversations are refreshing and casual. We really enjoy discussing scriptures with people we just steer clear of WT.
That must be very difficult with a PIMI spouse and I applaud your support of her during this delicate time. I’m so thankful my husband is awake with me! It didn’t happen all at the same time for us. We both knew something was seriously wrong with the GB and the cvd nonsense but as I mentioned before he was holding out looking for some hope or redemption of the org for a few months. We had lots of discussions and sometimes he would just say that was enough for one day and he’d have to go process - everyone has their own way of getting there. We’re on the same page now and can even joke about the borg and how silly it all seems now. Hang in there - she’ll come around.
 

Jess

Well-known member
I have to start off this post by saying I am not intending to insult or offend. These are just our observations over our entire lives in the org. It’s been discussed on here before that being in the truth in the 70s, 80s, and up to mid 90s seemed good! We had great friends, zeal for the ministry, and most importantly we were gonna be in paradise soon! No need for higher education, buying a house, or even braces - Jehovah will fix those crooked teeth soon! Our congregation had “October Frank” reminding us every October “This is it! The GT is gonna happen in October“! BTW Frank has been dead for over 10 years.

We were all determined to pioneer and not have children because “who would have children in this system?“. I recall the stir it caused in the late 80s at the SF convention when the brother‘s talk praised couples who remained childless for the sake of the good news! I’m from a very large family and the discussions after that were unanimous. I can see now that thinking deprived me and my siblings from having children and my parents from the grandchildren they never had. But that was all gonna be fixed in the new world so don’t think about it and just get back out in service.

Things started changing somewhere around the mid 90s. We live in a very affluent part of CA (born and raised here so it’s normal to us) and there are a lot of “pretty people” here. Think lots of cosmetic surgeries, fake lips, fake tans, hair extensions, etc. This began creeping into the congregation and by 2000s was the norm. About that time there was a flood of divorces and families rearranging. The double KH we attended became a child swapping fest with the divorced parents at the meeting in the two different halls and the kids running back and forth between them. There were also the childless couples who pretended to go on need greater preaching trips but were actually just exotic vacations and they took one token photo in front of the local KH. They were the rock stars and everyone wanted to be like them. It was not unusual to see the KH parking lot filled with mostly BMWs, Mercedes, and several Ferraris on Sunday. The crash of 2008 hit hard here. Many were losing their over financed homes and moving in with family. One assembly a couple we were close with were interviewed on stage and praised how they had decided to “simplify their lives“ by getting rid of their large expensive home to pioneer. That was a flat out lie! Their home was foreclosed on and they tried to hang on to it tooth and nail! Only after there was no saving it did they begin to spin the story all the way to the stage and their “good example“. 🙄

Through out the years we’ve noticed a significant amount of mental and emotional “issues” within the congregation. Almost as if a group arrested development is necessary to stay in the org and keep living in the last of the last days. As our group of friends are getting older and our parents are elderly and dying in this system and none of this was supposed to happen. It’s like everyone is living in two different worlds. Now the reality of no savings, no retirement plan, never bought a house. no children to care for them when they get older, and the years keep clipping away. For years the discussions always circled back around to the system can’t last much longer because the GB are getting older and the generation - right?

We now see many sisters in their 40s desperately trying IVF. Hardly ever do I work with a sister in my business and they’re not on some kind of anti anxiety or depression med. I know that’s a sensitive topic for many on here. I have worked with the public for years and it’s a disproportionate amount of witnesses vs non witnesses on these meds and many for decades. I had a sister in yesterday dealing with crippling anxiety and the depression of being in her 40s and still single. She could not stop crying at the thought of going back D2D but then the huge guilt of “not doing enough in the ministry”. She would even drive hours away into SF to get CBD so no one would see her and she begged me not to tell anyone. Trust me - not gonna say anything.

The arrested development we see among the sisters has been going on for many years and they encourage each other to stay in the childlike mindset. Many of the sisters have not only an obsession but an outright emotional dependence on all things Disneyland. 😳 Now I know a lot of people enjoy Disneyland and I’m not talking about the family vacation. I’m talking groups of adult, childless sisters that lived for Disney. They would plan multiple trips together per year without their husbands. They would sob and go into deep depression if they couldn’t go for any reason. Even going into debt or fighting with their husband about the expense. They wore the mouse ears like a crown for days and posted bizarre pictures of them hugging the Disney characters like they were friends. Their homes were covered in glass Disney figurines and they wore all the Mini Mouse clothing they could get away with. We have lived in multiple states on both coasts and this happened in many congregations.

In the car groups sisters would spend the morning singing the latest “original songs” from the broadcast often breaking into tears when they sang “Just around the corner” 🙄 and sometimes talk to each other in children’s voices. They couldn’t wait for the next Caleb video. I always assumed I was the one not trying hard enough to be close with them but I just couldn’t play along with their fantasy worlds. For the brothers it seems the org has focused for years on softening them down. The brothers have become so passive about everything except defending the GB. The men in the congregation are not allowed to have any real alpha qualities, perhaps that’s why we still have a no beard attitude. Can’t have strong males and maybe that’s why no elders pushed back on the v@x roll out. My husband has been so disappointed with his fellow elders and the men he looked up to. Not one would stand up to protect the congregation or even question what was happening. His talking with the other elders and the CO obviously has caused problems but we don’t care. He has often been counseled on being “too aggressive“ sorry, he’s not a house cat 🐈.

The real cherry on top happened this summer for us and the cruel reality of what the org does to peoples lives. Our long time friend died from the v, she’s the one that woke up paralyzed and died soon after. She had pioneered for close to 60 years, it’s literally all she lived for. I don’t have hardly a picture of her without a book bag in her hand. Her and I would be out till dark in service. Their only son left the truth decades before and they completely cut him off, they never got to know him of his family. When they got too old and sick he was called upon to come care for them, the parents he didn’t know now needed him. As we sat on her Zoom funeral watching the video of her life nonstop in the ministry while her old husband sobbed and the song “Just around the corner“ played over and over again like a cruel, final joke.
I know this is a long post. Just trying to make sense of a lifetime of weirdness that we just accepted as normal. Sorry if I struck a nerve for anyone. Maybe writing it out is a little therapeutic.
Oh my goodness. You echo my exact feelings about Disney! No offense to any Disney lovers on this forum either, but I lived in SoCal for 16 years and my husband and I always found the Adult Disney Obsession to be very perturbing but then we figured it out-its a total escape from the reality of adulthood and the world and their lives that they don't want to deal with. When they are there, they def check out and check in to an alternate reality. You are right in calling it "arrested development". To me it shows just how much trauma and hurt adults (and yes Witnesses too) in this country really have.

Disclaimer: I am just not a theme park person. I hated Disney. I still have flashbacks of getting trapped in a moving human Mob of Star Wars zombies going the wrong way with my toddler in a stroller screaming that she dropped her shoe a ways back in 100 degrees heat. I also recall waiting in an hour and half long line for a ride (arm about to fall off from now holding said large toddler for 1.5 hrs) nearly to the front when my other daughter could not hold her bladder and we had to get out of line. I got so frustrated with it all and all I could see all around me was a blur of mostly sunburnt people eating giant turkey legs and I started to panic. I remember rushing out of that wasteland as fast as possible and telling some guy next to me "Whoever said this is the happiest place on earth has never been here with a toddler!". Then I rammed my stroller into a few things on my way out for good measure (not with my kid in it) and swore I would never return and I haven't. My kids knew not even to ask lol 🤣
 
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Charming Primrose

Well-known member
Oh my goodness. You echo my exact feelings about Disney! No offense to any Disney lovers on this forum either, but I lived in SoCal for 16 years and my husband and I always found the Adult Disney Obsession to be very perturbing but then we figured it out-its a total escape from the reality of adulthood and the world and their lives that they don't want to deal with. When they are there, they def check out and check in to an alternate reality. You are right in calling it "arrested development". To me it shows just how much trauma and hurt adults (and yes Witnesses too) in this country really have.

Disclaimer: I am just not a theme park person. I hated Disney. I still have flashbacks of getting trapped in a moving human Mob of Star Wars zombies going the wrong way with my toddler in a stroller screaming that she dropped her shoe a ways back in 100 degrees heat. I also recall waiting in an hour and half long line for a ride (arm about to fall off from now holding said large toddler for 1.5 hrs) nearly to the front when my other daughter could not hold her bladder and we had to get out of line. I got so frustrated with it all and all I could see all around me was a blur of mostly sunburnt people eating giant turkey legs and I started to panic. I remember rushing out of that wasteland as fast as possible and telling some guy next to me "Whoever said this is the happiest place on earth has never been here with a toddler". Then I rammed my stroller into a few things on my way out for good measure (not with my kid in it) and swore I would never return and I haven't. My kids knew not even to ask lol 🤣
Lol funny,I’m trying to picture you racing out of there with the fam 🤣 I didn’t let my kids watch a lot of shows especially Disney. Mind you my m*i*l bought soooo many movies & allowed the kids to watch them when I wasn’t around 🤦🏼‍♀️🤐 My daughter now proudly displays them in her living room.
 

MuleJule

Well-known member
Then I rammed my stroller into a few things on my way out for good measure
LOL Jess! This made me chuckle picturing you doing that. 🤣 I am not a theme park person either. I endured some small amusement parks for the sake of my kiddos when they were younger but they never went to any Disney park. I went, in my 20s and was just not impressed.

I never forbid my kids from watching Disney, but I knew of families who did. My husband is actually a big fan of Disney. At the recommendation of our COBE (coordinater of body of elders) he insisted on subscribing to the Disney Plus Roku channel. I choose my battles.
 

Driven

Well-known member
Oh my goodness. You echo my exact feelings about Disney! No offense to any Disney lovers on this forum either, but I lived in SoCal for 16 years and my husband and I always found the Adult Disney Obsession to be very perturbing but then we figured it out-its a total escape from the reality of adulthood and the world and their lives that they don't want to deal with. When they are there, they def check out and check in to an alternate reality. You are right in calling it "arrested development". To me it shows just how much trauma and hurt adults (and yes Witnesses too) in this country really have.

Disclaimer: I am just not a theme park person. I hated Disney. I still have flashbacks of getting trapped in a moving human Mob of Star Wars zombies going the wrong way with my toddler in a stroller screaming that she dropped her shoe a ways back in 100 degrees heat. I also recall waiting in an hour and half long line for a ride (arm about to fall off from now holding said large toddler for 1.5 hrs) nearly to the front when my other daughter could not hold her bladder and we had to get out of line. I got so frustrated with it all and all I could see all around me was a blur of mostly sunburnt people eating giant turkey legs and I started to panic. I remember rushing out of that wasteland as fast as possible and telling some guy next to me "Whoever said this is the happiest place on earth has never been here with a toddler!". Then I rammed my stroller into a few things on my way out for good measure (not with my kid in it) and swore I would never return and I haven't. My kids knew not even to ask lol 🤣
I grew up in SoCal too and visiting Disney once every 5 years was plenty. Unfortunately when you have children and live close by you often go too many times. When my children were young I went every year but now you could not pay me enough to go back. But I do like State Fairs!
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
Now I know a lot of people enjoy Disneyland and I’m not talking about the family vacation. I’m talking groups of adult, childless sisters that lived for Disney. They would plan multiple trips together per year without their husbands. They would sob and go into deep depression if they couldn’t go for any reason. Even going into debt or fighting with their husband about the expense. They wore the mouse ears like a crown for days and posted bizarre pictures of them hugging the Disney characters like they were friends. Their homes were covered in glass Disney figurines and they wore all the Mini Mouse clothing they could get away with. We have lived in multiple states on both coasts and this happened in many congregations.
BIZARRE!
and sometimes talk to each other in children’s voices. They couldn’t wait for the next Caleb video.
They're emotionally stunted. The WBTS is destroying the Brothers and Sisters and they have a lot to answer for.

I'm really only commenting here so I get notices of replies...and to thank you for starting a barnstorming discussion. Fascinating look into the psyche of your typical JW now.
 

Citrine

Well-known member
BIZARRE!

They're emotionally stunted. The WBTS is destroying the Brothers and Sisters and they have a lot to answer for.

I'm really only commenting here so I get notices of replies...and to thank you for starting a barnstorming discussion. Fascinating look into the psyche of your typical JW now.
I’m very concerned about the mental stability in the congregation. The Disney thing is just a symptom of very serious issues. It’s not just a quirky or innocent hobby. They literally cannot cope with real life. Unfortunately we have seen the dark turn this can take. One of our ”Disney sisters” committed suicide a few years ago. She was distraught her husband could no longer afford to keep them living in their expensive home. She could not deal that he moved them into a smaller home and was embarrassed that they now lived in the “poor area”. She posted all this on Facebook and that she was suicidal. Her husband was out of town working and a local elder went to check on her. She told him she was suicidal. He encouraged her to pray more and left her alone. He was the last one to see her alive. He gave her memorial talk and described her as “a fish out of water in this life”. Her memorial handout featured a picture of her smiling in her mouse ears at the Magic Kingdom.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
To be completely honest, I've never enjoyed the door to door ministry. I'm sure I'm not alone in that. I've always had to force myself to do it. I'm quite the introvert so I don't enjoy uncomfortable conversations with strangers which is what most of d2d is.

In fact, in my 30 years as a JW I've never had a bible student that I got from d2d. They were always referrals or family. I'm not very skilled at return visits either. But I have enjoyed conducting bible Studies in the past. I tend to put myself in the place of the householder at the door and realize that I wouldn't want someone pushing something on me. I can't stand working with pushy publishers.

When I reflect on it now, perhaps in my heart, I knew that many of the doctrines were not correct so that may have prevented me from giving my all.

That being said, since I've been "awakened" my desire to preach JW doctrine has dwindled. I'm mostly motivated by a desire to support my PIMI wife and if I can share basic Bible truth with someone...well at least I'm still following Christ's command to preach the good news. But the past few months have been the least amount of service time I've ever recorded. I'm very de-motivated altogether. I typically just use either a scriptural presentation or a tract since they contain mostly basic Bible truths. I'm not going to promote WT doctrine. I typically try to focus on God's kingdom since that is what Jesus taught us to focus on with our ministry. If I ever get an actual study, I'll have to cross that bridge when I get there. I would probably teach the student the basics and when we get to WT doctrine I would warn them and tell them to do their research.

I'm in a tough position with my wife being PIMI. I don't want to stir the pot too much so My new goal is to fade as much as possible while still supporting her. Interestingly, she has kind of been following my lead. I feel that her desire to change congregations is an opportunity for me to step down. I'm a firm believer in the power of intention. It's all about focusing ones energies on a goal, then slowly and consistently making concerted moves toward that goal. The universe will fall in line. We just have to find the rhythm and frequency and harmonize with it. We really can "bend spoons". I've experienced it happen throughout my lifetime and now I am becoming more aware of it.

I digress, hopefully that answers your question. Are you still active in the formal ministry? I'd like to hear how you are coping likewise.
I can sympathise with those sentiments jah-son. I was never at ease with door to door myself. I think part of the problem was that the meetings were rarely, if ever, encouraging. They always seemed to be negative. This is wrong, that is wrong, everything is wrong, and even that we ourselves are wrong and are just slaves doing as we aught to do. Our professions were wrong, the people we work with are full of evil, we have no place in or with the world, and even that we should not trust to our own heart motivation, but be guided in that by the GB. It is a wonder that any of us were happy.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
We’re not doing any formal ministry and haven’t for at least a year. We were keeping up pretty good with Zoom letter writing until the cvd updates and then we just stopped. We can’t in good conscience direct others to the org. That was a difficult time for us as we grappled with what our preaching would look like going forward. We have done a few random Zoom service appearances cause my husband is still a group overseer which is getting weirder by the day. When we’ve been on we’re not writing letters, we’re either online shopping or I’m on this group! 😆 Just being honest. But I am happy to report that after much prayer asking for direction on how and what to preach we are now having really good Bible discussions with work associations and customers! It’s happening so easily and our conversations are refreshing and casual. We really enjoy discussing scriptures with people we just steer clear of WT.
That must be very difficult with a PIMI spouse and I applaud your support of her during this delicate time. I’m so thankful my husband is awake with me! It didn’t happen all at the same time for us. We both knew something was seriously wrong with the GB and the cvd nonsense but as I mentioned before he was holding out looking for some hope or redemption of the org for a few months. We had lots of discussions and sometimes he would just say that was enough for one day and he’d have to go process - everyone has their own way of getting there. We’re on the same page now and can even joke about the borg and how silly it all seems now. Hang in there - she’ll come around.
That a nice story to read citrine. Thanks for that. My wife, in the common watchtower vernacular references to the stumbled is an ARSE - Against Religion Secularly Entrenched. We met and married during my sojourn in the spiritual desert post watchtower, but if Jehovah ever gave me a gift, it is her. I am hopeful of her listening to the truth come the terror of awakening. However well our lamps are trimmed and full of oil, I think we all will have our eyes opened and our speculation tested to its very limits = but thankfully, no further so the bible tells us.
 
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