Jehovah's Witness church seeks exemption from royal commission abuse in care inquiry

Shekinah

Well-known member

SusanB

Well-known member
Here is a quote from the June 15, 2001 Watchtower:

It is not difficult to recognize that we live in an unloving world. Referring to the kind of people existing during “the last days,” the apostle Paul wrote: “Critical times hard to deal with will be here. For men will be lovers of themselves, . . . having no natural affection.” (2 Timothy 3:1-3) How true those words are!

THE moral environment of our times has contributed to a lack of compassion in the hearts of many. People are less and less interested in the welfare of others, in some cases even in that of members of their own family.”
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Jehovah God requires His shepherds to plead the cause of widows and orphans. Widows and orphans can be expanded to include anyone who is vulnerable or in some way disadvantaged. It is the core of Christianity. The Watchtower's lawyers have denied Jehovah. They are against the basic tenants of Christianity. So what if you know the condition of the dead and print millions of Bibles? That ain't good enough. The article below was posted back in 2009. Since then they have only hardened their stand against God.

Expect divine justice to be swift and brutal

 
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Liv4ever

Guest
"It is seeking a judicial review and High Court declaration that the church does not assume responsibility for the care of children, young people, or vulnerable people" 😯


This article is loaded with inaccuracies. First of all, we all have to agree that anyone calling Jehovah's witnesses a 'church' isn't playing with a full deck.

It takes some doing to get past the editorial spin, but only after that do we get to an actual quote from Brother Pecipajkovski-
"Church spokesperson Tom Pecipajkovski said the Jehovah's Witnesses had cooperated since 2019 with the commission, "consistently explaining that the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses does not and never has taken children, young people or vulnerable adults into care".

"Therefore, the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses does not fall within the scope of this inquiry.

"Despite repeated requests, the commission has failed to present valid reasons as to why it disagrees" so they had gone to the High Court, said Pecipajkovski in a statement today.
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
This article is loaded with inaccuracies. First of all, we all have to agree that anyone calling Jehovah's witnesses a 'church' isn't playing with a full deck.

It takes some doing to get past the editorial spin, but only after that do we get to an actual quote from Brother Pecipajkovski-
"Church spokesperson Tom Pecipajkovski said the Jehovah's Witnesses had cooperated since 2019 with the commission, "consistently explaining that the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses does not and never has taken children, young people or vulnerable adults into care".

"Therefore, the religion of Jehovah's Witnesses does not fall within the scope of this inquiry.

"Despite repeated requests, the commission has failed to present valid reasons as to why it disagrees" so they had gone to the High Court, said Pecipajkovski in a statement today.
"Into care' is a relative term. NO CHURCH takes anyone "into their care" if you are going to take the interpretation as one of an actual caregiver where someone comes into your home and is responsible for you legally. It's semantics.

But WT KNOWS that all of Jehovah's sheep are charged as being "under their care" spiritually and they know that. They are also charged with protecting the flock and keeping it clean and upholding God's law. It's the same semantics that they are playing out in court by saying about their shunning policy: "we never said you can't talk to them" or whatever exact wording they used, it was designed to be misleading because any JW would say that it's blatantly false.

It was like Gerrit Loesch's testimony and Geoffrey Jackson's where they said that they are not under the authority of WT and never have been and they don't set policy for WT. WTBS is a legal entity that the GB divulged itself from about 20 years ago. It's legal semantics. WTBS has never set spiritual policy for the organization, only the GB has. WTBS only handles the legal and financial side of things.

The real question is: What does Jehovah God, the God of TRUTH, think about their deliberate obscuring of the truth? That is the true question. Forget what imperfect men think.
 
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Liv4ever

Guest
are' is a relative term. NO CHURCH takes anyone "into their care" if you are going to take the interpretation as one of an actual caregiver where someone comes into your home and is responsible for you legally. It's semantics.
Wrong...I'm talking about daycare and Sunday school, field trips, etc.
 
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Liv4ever

Guest
The real question is: What does Jehovah God, the God of TRUTH, think about their deliberate obscuring of the truth? That is the true question. Forget what imperfect men think.
The answer to that is obvious. The real question however is dealing with csa. The org , (like everyone else) isn't immune to the problem. The solution is god's kingdom, not surrendering your parental rights to the gestapo. The real truth that is being obscured here is that the Catholic Church is on the verge of bankruptcy and nothing will stop that train wreck, because new legislation extends the statute of limitations for victims of csa. The wt will survive this tsunami though because basically Jehovah's witnesses are decent people and everyone knows it.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
You're claiming a religion that accumulates wealth from over a billion members worldwide and that has had nearly two millenia to amass its war chest not to mention over half the US Supreme Court is catholic is going to go bankrupt over csa cases. That's definitely a stretch sure the wild beast will dispose of them when the time comes but even if the Vatican were as vulnerable as has been made out to be and even if any other faction of globalism is presently more powerful they're far to useful to those pushing the march toward global centralization of power as the world's largest intelligence network (confession booths) for them to go out that manner.
 
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StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
The real question however is dealing with csa.
Education. From the platform. Telling all kids to TELL no matter who it is and tell them that they'll be believed. That's the answer. If kids know what CSA is and what it looks like and that they are supposed to tell, then abusers will not be able to abuse. Silence is what makes this flourish.

If the child is taught to report it immediately then it will stop. You may say that "well, what if it's the parents that are the abusers". Well, if the child hears from the platform, all the time, to tell no matter who it is, and if the JW's are willing to step up to the plate and offer that child room and board if they have to leave, then it will stop.
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
This is a true statement because you don't understand the structure of the corporation
I do understand the structure of the corporation and I have a problem with the fact that, like worldly CEO's do, that they hid behind the fact that they are not technically serving on the board of directors of the corporation and yet are in fact making the decisions about policies and procedures to be followed in these cases. In Jehovah's eyes, it doesn't matter to him that they don't sit on the corporation board, they are still accounable.

Being separate from the corporation just gives them legal protection because they can sue the WTBS because that's the holding tank for the money, but they can't sue the GB. That was done on purpose. Whether or not they can be sued shouldn't even factor into the equation.

What's important is DOING THE RIGHT THING and following the Bible.

In the inquiry, they were specifically talking about the two-witness rule and asked if they would ever change it, and Geoffrey Jackson said that they couldn't and yet the attorney pointed out that Deuteronomy 22:25-27 said:

“If, however, the man happened to meet the engaged girl in the field and the man overpowered her and lay down with her, the man who lay down with her is to die by himself, and you must do nothing to the girl. The girl has not committed a sin deserving of death. This case is the same as when a man attacks his fellow man and murders him. For he happened to meet her in the field, and the engaged girl screamed, but there was no one to rescue her.”

The point is: there was no second witness to the rape and yet the man was still judged guilty on her testimony.

WT's response to this account in 2019, two years after that deposition, can be found here:


The problem with their response is: how was it proven that the man was guilty of "over powering her" if there were no witnesses to the rape and just her testimony? More side stepping with no proof.
 
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Liv4ever

Guest
You're claiming a religion that accumulates wealth from over a billion members worldwide and that has had nearly two millenia to amass its war chest not to mention over half the US Supreme Court is catholic is going to go bankrupt over csa cases.
I said they are on the verge of bankruptcy...just how exactly this will play out, I can't say. However the traveling merchants or shipping magnates or pirates, stood at a distance from her.

The income streams you mention account for just a fraction of her accumulated wealth. Have you ever heard of the Justinian deception? Justinian was the pope that started the scam. Creating a legal fiction by using all capitals on your birth certificate, much the same way that Jehovah's name is substituted with LORD in all capitals in the Bible.

 
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Liv4ever

Guest
Whether or not they can be sued shouldn't even factor into the equation.
Once again, your whole line of reasoning underscores the fact that the RAC was asking ineffective, irrelevant questions because they don't understand Jehovah's witnesses or the structure of the organization or its purpose or for that matter, the Bible itself, which is the basis for the entire legal system.
 
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Liv4ever

Guest
WT's response to this account in 2019, two years after that deposition, can be found here:
Objection. Counsel is testifying to facts not in evidence. If this truly is wt's response as you contend, it must be plainly stated as such. But seein as how it ain't, it ain't.
 

Neoluna

Well-known member
I can speak from experience having lived thru all of this as a child. Myself and my brother DID report the abuse. Nothing was ever done. The pedophile was allowed to stay in the congregation and abuse others. I even went to the elders to report about another brother that was touching me inappropriately when i was younger. He is still an elder. He is well known in our area. There exact words to me were" get on with your life and let Jehovah handle the matter". The society wants to distance itself by saying it " does not and never has taken children, young people or vulnerable adults into care". There so many things wrong with that statement i wouldnt know where to start but i will say this. The last time i attended the kingdom hall i sat beside a convicted pedophile. He was on our states sex offender registry. He spent time in prison for molesting an 11 year old girl. I hope divine justice will be swift and brutal.
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
I can speak from experience having lived thru all of this as a child. Myself and my brother DID report the abuse. Nothing was ever done. The pedophile was allowed to stay in the congregation and abuse others. I even went to the elders to report about another brother that was touching me inappropriately when i was younger. He is still an elder. He is well known in our area. There exact words to me were" get on with your life and let Jehovah handle the matter". The society wants to distance itself by saying it " does not and never has taken children, young people or vulnerable adults into care". There so many things wrong with that statement i wouldnt know where to start but i will say this. The last time i attended the kingdom hall i sat beside a convicted pedophile. He was on our states sex offender registry. He spent time in prison for molesting an 11 year old girl. I hope divine justice will be swift and brutal.
That had to have been so difficult to endure. Jehovah is your witness. HE will act on your behalf:

Isaiah 59: 7-9; 14-18

14 Justice is driven back, And righteousness stands far off; For truth has stumbled in the public square, And what is upright is unable to enter.15 Truth has vanished, And anyone who turns away from bad is plundered. Jehovah saw this and was displeased, For there was no justice. 16 He saw that there was no man, And he was astonished that no one interceded, So his own arm brought about salvation,*And his own righteousness supported him.17 Then he put on righteousness like a coat of mail And the helmet of salvation* on his head. He put on the garments of vengeance as his clothing And wrapped himself with zeal like a coat. 18 He will reward them for what they have done: Wrath to his adversaries, retribution to his enemies. And to the islands he will repay their due.

Isaiah 49:14-16:

14 But Zion kept saying: “Jehovah has abandoned me, and Jehovah has forgotten me.”15 Can a woman forget her nursing child Or have no compassion for the son of her womb? Even if these women forget, I would never forget you. 16 Look! On my palms I have engraved you. Your walls are always before me.
 

StopTheInsanity

Well-known member
I can speak from experience having lived thru all of this as a child. Myself and my brother DID report the abuse. Nothing was ever done. The pedophile was allowed to stay in the congregation and abuse others. I even went to the elders to report about another brother that was touching me inappropriately when i was younger. He is still an elder. He is well known in our area. There exact words to me were" get on with your life and let Jehovah handle the matter". The society wants to distance itself by saying it " does not and never has taken children, young people or vulnerable adults into care". There so many things wrong with that statement i wouldnt know where to start but i will say this. The last time i attended the kingdom hall i sat beside a convicted pedophile. He was on our states sex offender registry. He spent time in prison for molesting an 11 year old girl. I hope divine justice will be swift and brutal.
Also, I want you to know, that had I been in your congregation and knew about your situation, I would have fought on your behalf that you got justice.

I have been personally involved in two of such cases:

The first was my own sister-in-law that my husband's "best friend" since youth violated. She was home alone at her parent's house when she was 16 years old and he came over and asked her if she knew how to use a tampon. She said no. They ended up in the bathroom with her putting one up inside of her. She stopped going to the KH. She finally came forward years later.

My husband's family was very weak spiritually and had been friends with this brother's family for two decades and that family had helped them into the truth. So they told her to forgive him and even still let him come over to the house. My sister-in-law left the house and has been living on the streets doing drugs ever since. We don't even know if she's alive.

The brother was privately reproved (he has two kids) and cannot serve in any special capacity. That said, he has never apologized to her or to us and we cut him off.

The elder who presided over his judicial committee was a former Bethelite and later on, his own adopted son ended up murdering a newly baptized brother by meeting him the parking lot of a grocery store and beating him with a bat until he was unrecognizable. The young brother died three days later. Evidently, both of these brothers had had a love interest in the same young sister and were fighting over it. The attorney that the family hired to represent their son's defense, was Leslie Abramson, of the Menendez trial fame.

Their son got prison time, but the father and mother still got a part on the district convention program. It makes me sick to my stomach.

The second one was a sister in an area where I used to live who's father had been molesting her older sister and incesting her from the age of 5 until 15. She is now a drug dealer.

The father used to line all the kids up when they were little and wave a gun at them and ask: "Which one of you a I going to shoot today?"

Another time, he put my friend at age 3 into a turkey pan and threatened to put her into a heated over while the others watched.

We had gone to a 12-step group together where she had shared her story for the first time. I asked her if she had ever told the elders and she said no. I told her she needed to go to the elders with what he had done.

As it happened, the PO at the time happened to be a former Gilead missionary and also a good friend of her fathers. He felt like her father was like a 2nd father to him. That elder told her she needed to forgive him. When her father and mother changed congregations because they were embarrassed, one of the elders announced to the congregation that they were moving and asked everyone to clap to send them off with well wishes.

At the new hall, her father would pass out candy to the children there. I ended up calling the branch and she ended up calling the branch because we didn't have a CO at the time due to circumstances causing him to leave the road, and a brother at the branch told her she would have to forgive him and cited the account about Manasseh.

She called me one day and said that she was sitting on her couch with a knife to her throat contemplating suicide.

Finally, a District Overseer got involved and told her elders that they needed to apologize to her and said that the father had to pay for her therapy. When I was lamenting to one of her new elders about what she had gone through while working door to door out in service, he told me about a judicial committee involving a woman who had been raped by her dentist who had given her Flunitrazepam, also known as Rohypnol, which is a date-rape drug, and she got disfellowshipped after she got pregnant because she couldn't prove that she had been raped.

Somehow it all came out later, perhaps with DNA testing of the baby and the dentist, and she got reinstated.

True justice will not occur until Armageddon and beyond. But in the meantime, our dear brothers and sisters such as yourself deserve all the love and support and validation that they deserve. I just want you to know that I would have fought for you for whatever that's worth.

I had gone with the second sister to a SIA (Survivors of Incest) 12 step group and they have literature online that you might find healing.

 
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