Rough draft letter to the elders...

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
This is not even close to finished...and I'm not sure a certain half of me will let me do this even though that person completely agrees...anyway, here's what i got so far....

My Father came in contact with Jehovah’s Witnesses around 1943 or so. His mother had answered the door to Jehovah’s Witnesses, and accepted a book they were offering, which went right into the trash. My father saw the book in the trash, fished it out and began reading it. His mother was a devout, Pentecostal. WWII was raging, and my father was getting close to in age for draft eligibility. He took the book he was reading to his mother and said, “I bet these people do not go to war.” My Grandmother said to him, “everyone goes to war.”

My father began studying with Jehovah’s Witnesses, and near the end of WWII he was drafted. He went to prison as a “conscientious objector” and while in prison, because he was imprisoned with so many brothers, got baptized in prison.

That is the history of my father, which indeed I share being he was my father, and raise me and my brothers as Jehovah’s Witnesses. I heard this story so many times over the years. Indeed it is inspiring, and something I have always been very proud of.

Needless to say, I was raised in the truth. The difference is, my father knew the bible and everything the Org put out better than anyone else, and all you needed to do, to have that education installed into you, was be one of his sons.

Back in the 80’s when I became a young man, and having this kind of background, I really started to dig deep into what was going on in the world.

But that happened partially on accident.

I needed extra credit in High School, and the janitor gave a presentation of the assignation of JFK. I didn’t know anything really one way or another, and everyone made fun of this guy. I had heard him ridiculed by people who’d seen his presentation. But I needed the credits so I went anyway, fully expecting to laugh and ridicule this guy afterwards.

What happened instead is I left that presentation thinking to myself, “wow, he made a lot of sense.” “back and to the left.” There’s never been a good argument why that happened from a shooter from behind. “Back and to the left” was from the perspective of Kennedy who was obviously shot from the front and not behind.


This was when I truly began to understand Satan’s power, and how he really does “transform himself into an angel of light” by being able to use his governments to cover up this kind of a crime.

It was then that I really began to wonder how much Satan was hiding. It makes sense after all, a demon, who’s intent is evil, and wants to make himself seem like he’s an angel of good, would cover-up is evil intent.

This is when I really began to dig deep. Around this same time, I met my wife we got and turns out she’d never been vaccinated. Her Mom also a Witness had researched vaccines, and decided the bad outweighed any good from vaccines, and so she never vaccinated her daughter. And she used a “religious exemption to avoid vaccinations for public schools.

Me being open minded, looked into it. Short version, way before my kids were born I knew I would never vaccinate my kids. Back in the 80’s the pharmaceutical companies threatened to stop manufacturing vaccines, because they were losing their shirts from liability lawsuits! In other words, their vaccines were injuring and killing people. But because the “whole world lies in the power of the wicked one” and congress rather than look into vaccine dangers, set up what many call the “vaccine injury fund.” And indeed that is what it is. You cannot sue a vaccine manufacturer now for damages from a bad vaccine that injures or kills you, you have to sue the government. Which have added an excise tax to vaccines to pay for the vaccine injuries. It is an evil demonic scam that the devil has made sure almost no one knows about.

So having said all of that, when my kids were born, we did not vaccinate them and used a religious exemption in part the scripture about the body being a temple.

So years before Covid, there was no way I would ever get another vaccine myself or vaccinate my kids. Vaccines are NOT SAFE OR EFFECTIVE. That is a Satanic lie!

Then rolled out “Covid”.

For many years we used the analogy of the Bible being the “owners manual for human beings because God was the creator.”

Well Covid was propagated off the PCR test, so I think we should look at what the creator of the PCR test had to say about using the PCR test as a diagnostic, and by extension since Fauci was using it that way, what the creator of the PCR put out in his “owners manual” for the PCR test.

1) …he said you cannot use it for what the whole world used it for, a diagnostic(in other words you cannot use the PCR to test whether someone has Covid or not.) and 2) he said Fauci was no scientist.




|So if we used the standard that the creator knows the most about what he created, then we have to conclude that Kerry Mullis set the definitive standard for the PCR test, and therefore everything the governments have been doing around the world is fraud and their conclusions are based on fraud and not “misinformation”. Rather your conclusions are based on misinformation since they all originate with the father of the lie. Kerry Mullis was not a government stooge. In fact he’s dead now.

My first red flag with regard to Covid came with the Mask hysteria. I use “masks” as part of the PPE for what I do for a living. I put “masks” in quotations, because, a “mask” had different meanings. In my case I have several respirators that I use. A “respirator” is defined as “A device worn over the mouth or nose or both to protect the respiratory tract from harmful dust or fumes”

Another definition, “a mask or device worn over the mouth and nose to protect the respiratory system by filtering out dangerous substances (such as dusts, fumes, or bacteria) from inhaled air”

Keyword here, “mask” and “by filtering out dangerous substances.”

I own several respirators. And they in fact, “filter out dangerous substances.” Some better than other like my $1200 PaPR. (Powered air Purifying Respirator.)

Your hanky, and your “surgeon mask” doesn’t do anything. And OSHA knows this because for 40 years they have regulated it. The surgeon suite is a giant respirator. That surgeon mask is a dust a sweat filter, nothing more!

But the real problem with “masks” is not that they don’t work, but for a fact they cause harm, especially to young children. They force people to re-breathe carbon dioxide in children, that can cause permanent brain damage.

For more than 20 years I have used and studied respirators. What happened in 2020 is clear evidence that the governments are controlled by Satan. OSHA has had laws regarding mask use for 40 plus years. They threw them all out the window like they didn’t exist, over night. FORTY YEARS of research and study, just to say, “Everyone needs to wear a mask”.

And literally a few days prior they levied tens of thousands of dollars of fines to companies who just told their employees to wear masks. You know why? Oh, boy, because there is a statute. An actual law, which prohibits any employer from requiring an employee to perform a task that requires a respirator, without giving them a medical evaluation. And if you “fail” the medical evaluation, you cannot be required to wear a mask, and if you are an actual Christian you cannot “strongly suggest” a person with a medical exemption, wear a mask.


In other words, “Strongly suggesting a mask” is in fact, against the actual law, since the law is not made up of executive orders. Maybe you guys no longer know there are three branches of government, The judiciary, the executive, and the legislative. The Legislative is the only branch that can make actual laws. And even then “congress shall make no law” means the legislative cannot change that law.
@Nomex

Although I believe your letter is very well written and factual, do you really think that the elders will care enough reconsider their stand, especially if it’s contrary to the GB stand?
Or you may get satisfaction by letting them know that you know how the world world really works “lying in the power of the wicked one.”

I’m sure the elders have received similar information from others and by now, for the most part, are being as ‘a stiff necked people.‘


The evidence and facts you have presented from your family history to the mask issue is very compelling and should be taken seriously by the congregation elders but do you really think they will take it to heart?

I admire your courage as I do so many others who speak up for truth and righteousness.
Although not trying to discourage you for your zeal for what is right they probably won’t read it because it’s too lengthy or they’ll just file it away.

They are like the stubborn shepherds from times past. Isaiah 42:20 “You see many things but do not keep watch. You open your ears, but you do not listen.”
 
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יהוה_saves

Well-known member
One of the reasons they've dumbed down the material. Watchtower is a very long way from Studies in the Scriptures. 3rd grade reading at best, depending on the IQ of the person.
that reminds me of a time i was at the door with a sister- she was doing her magazine route (remember that?) and she was introducing the mags- the lady interrupted her and said: I just want to say that these magazines seem like they’re written for children- or something like that- and the sister’s response was: they’re written for all reading levels. i thought to myself in response to the lady- I’m so glad someone else noticed. This was about 2008 so the dumbing down really kicked into gear that decade, IMO.
 
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Driven

Well-known member
My experience is that elders don’t want your point of view. They don’t want a dialogue, they want a monologue. From them to you, not the other way round. You will never get satisfaction in telling your side of the story, cause they don’t care.

The best advice I can give you is if you can avoid the talk due to “personal circumstances“ by all means try to get out of the talk altogether. No explanation needs to be given as they have to respect your privacy.

Good luck.
I disagree. Those who feel compelled to “push back” in honest expression should regardless of whether the Elders listen or not. Standing up for what is true involves more than the effect on the listener. It involves keeping our conscience clean, honoring our God who is a God of truth and we really don’t know who might hear it or read it and down the road they may then remember it.
 

Driven

Well-known member
I wanted to get things of my chest and at first they were surprised and kinda agreed with me. But the longer they had time to think, the more excuses they came up with and it turned out to all be our fault.

So what did it bring me? Only more frustration.
And yet it creates a ripple. We do not yet know the end result of these ripples. With enough ripples, we may have a tsunami.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
Well I thoroughly enjoyed reading it
so did i. I find people’s history in this org fascinating. I often see things that are common to my own history and experience and it’s very supportive. It saddens me to see how this org has spiritually damaged so many good people.

i hate to see Nomex have any sort of expectation that the elders are going to read his letter or engage him on any of its points. It’s just not going to happen.
 

Ms_ladyblue

Well-known member
so did i. I find people’s history in this org fascinating. I often see things that are common to my own history and experience and it’s very supportive. It saddens me to see how this org has spiritually damaged so many good people.

i hate to see Nomex have any sort of expectation that the elders are going to read his letter or engage him on any of its points. It’s just not going to happen.
That’s what I was thinking….Nomex, don’t be disappointed because Jehovah sees your good heart and I’m sure he knows your sincere motives.

That‘s how I use to be able to handle householders who would reject the message we would bring to them. It helped me to keep going…for Jehovah, not for WT!
 
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יהוה_saves

Well-known member
I disagree. Those who feel compelled to “push back” in honest expression should regardless of whether the Elders listen or not. Standing up for what is true involves more than the effect on the listener. It involves keeping our conscience clean, honoring our God who is a God of truth and we really don’t know who might hear it or read it and down the road they may then remember it.
i never thought about it in those terms. I recall my own letter writing campaign to the elders back before i was reinstated- i was trying to get reinstated and i wrote a couple of five page letters. At least! Laying out all my history and how sorry i was and on and on. They ignored me until i reached out to them by email and asked to be reinstated, and eventually i got this very cold text message from an elder saying that my consideration for reinstatement was on “indefinite hold” (exact words) due to the pandemic. (this was 2020) when i finally met with them, was reinstated, they brought up certain aspects of my, ahem, hiatus, that convinced me that not one of them had read my letters. I don’t even know that they were even opened.

There’s nothing wrong with writing and journaling, perhaps keep a daily diary. But writing all these details down- the elders do not care and that can be a hard reality for a lot of folks. they’ll only use his letter to find fault in him. So i have to respectfully disagree with @Driven haha. a first!

ps Maybe i should rethink it- i’m going on my own personal experience. I don’t wanna dissuade Nomex from doing what is right for himself.
 
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יהוה_saves

Well-known member
That’s what I was thinking….Nomex, don’t be disappointed because Jehovah sees your good heart and I’m sure he knows your sincere motives.

That‘s how I use to be able to handle the householders who would reject the message we would bring to them. It helped me to keep going…for Jehovah, not for WT!
yep. and the elders don’t dictate what is a clean consciences- only Jehovah. The elders can fly off.
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
and eventually i got this very cold text message from an elder saying that my consideration for reinstatement was on “indefinite hold” (exact words) due to the pandemic. (this was 2020)
Because that's what Jesus would do right? As I said when the Covidation began, I trust God and I am not afraid. Are the elders afraid or was it just excuses? See, in my mind I still don't feel like anyone actually believe in the coviditis. I feel that they all know deep down inside. Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe they're stupid after all. I do mean to sound judgmental because we were promised pestilence. Now, pestilence could mean locusts for all we know. We were told that there would be war, pestilence and food shortages. The latter two always seem to follow war not precede it and we aren't there yet. That's pretty much how I knew it was fake but not the only reason.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
True in normal circumstances. But they don’t want to reason with apostates cause what if what they say is true? It would make them question their own faith and motives and they want to avoid that at all costs.

It’s sad and I feel for Nomex. His situation is not unique and I know we’re gonna get the “we’d like to visit you message” in the near future too. Only I’m pulling the menopause card so 2 men won’t dare come and visit me 🤣🤣🤣
I feel for Nomex too. I think many of us know what is coming his way. I do not think elders know or understand the effect and outcomes of what they do. It always, in my memory at least, reminds me of Christ‘s agonised appeal to Jehovah to “Forgive them father, for they know not what they do,” said of the Pharisees. I think you hit the nail on the head Sunshower, when you say that the elders view is, before a word is even said, that their victim is “apostate”. The fact that the watchtower got to where it is today, by the exact same reasoning on traditional views that were believed true 150 years ago, is lost on them. Like the Pharisees before them, the modern elder assumes himself to be the spokesman of Jehovah. That is one hell of a dangerous thing to assume. I suggested to Nomex the methodology of absorbing the blows rather than arguing against unreasoning bigotry, but this is generally a battle that we have to own in the same way that we own our very concept of faith. Nomex has Jehovah and his help and reasoning will come from Him, as will the comfort and reassurance. We worry for his trial, but not the outcome. That much is assured through strong and resolved faith.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
agreed. In this case they don’t want to listen. They follow the Shepherd the Flock of God elders’ manuel to the letter. It’s kinda like calling into a tech help call center in the Philippines when your puter goes haywire: If customer says ‘it won’t turn on’ flip to reply card B.
Yes! The ”on or off” approach. Quite advanced for watchtower thinking. “Apostate. Not Apostate.” Being not apostate is about the highest accolade one can hope to achieve in watchtower-land.
 

יהוה_saves

Well-known member
Yes! The ”on or off” approach. Quite advanced for watchtower thinking. “Apostate. Not Apostate.” Being not apostate is about the highest accolade one can hope to achieve in watchtower-land.
Astonishing how Watchtower elders go from praying over the spiritually sick to persecuting those with divergent opinions in a single struggle session judicial committee meeting. They will stand in judgment jointly and severally before God for the harm they’ve inflicted on the widow and orphan in his name.

how is @BARNABY THE DOG. tonight? today.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
@Nomex

Although I believe your letter is very well written and factual, do you really think that the elders will care enough reconsider their stand, especially if it’s contrary to the GB stand?
Or you may get satisfaction by letting them know that you know how the world world really works “lying in the power of the wicked one.”

I’m sure the elders have received similar information from others and by now, for the most part, are being as ‘a stiff necked people.‘


The evidence and facts you have presented from your family history to the mask issue is very compelling and should be taken seriously by the congregation elders but do you really think they will take it to heart?

I admire your courage as I do so many others who speak up for truth and righteousness.
Although not trying to discourage you for your zeal for what is right they probably won’t read it because it’s too lengthy or they’ll just file it away.

They are like the stubborn shepherds from times past. Isaiah 42:20 “You see many things but do not keep watch. You open your ears, but you do not listen.”
It’s true what you say. Silence can speak louder than words. But sometimes, we have to say our piece and what I find therapeutic in Nomex’s letter is that it reflects the value of the Truth to his family and life. In that regard, it validates the trust his family had in the watchtower, and what the destruction of that trust has meant to them. That is the value of truth, and thus the dialogue of how that trust was built, is the whole essence of what constitutes “truth” to a person. I.e., it is their soul. Therefore, the murdering outcome of that trust illustrates the value of that trust, and that is why what is said, from it’s genesis, is the real value and measures the gravity of the deceit. That should mean something to the elders and indeed to anyone reading such a letter, but as noted by so many here, it becomes a case of casting pearls before swine. Does that detract from its value? Not in the least. The loss is for those who read without insight and cannot see the man, but only themselves - and who judges their self with honesty? Too few, and certainly not those who are blind to what they read and are inwardly, empty vessels.

In it’s outcome, the letter is a declaration of faith, honesty, meaning, humanity. A gem from the heart. It’s value is it’s heartfelt statement and the judge is Jehovah. The reader, the elder, is the one before the Court. Not Nomex. Let the elder therefore state his case and condemn himself. That is why the letter and it’s content is of such value. It’s a judgement of the heart. If I was handed such a letter of the genesis of truth within a family and of the breaking of trust, I would read it very carefully. By their fruits you will know them, works both ways, and so it will for the elder that reads Nomex’s story and throws it back at him.
 

Sunshower

Well-known member
What is a JG?
JW, sorry, JG is Dutch

And yet it creates a ripple. We do not yet know the end result of these ripples. With enough ripples, we may have a tsunami.
No it doesn’t. My mother is still in that congregation and in that 6 years they have only grown more arrogant.

This is a top down organisation, there is no two way street communication. I agree with @Ms_ladyblue: “I’m sure the elders have received similar information from others and by now, for the most part, are being as ‘a stiff necked people.‘“
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
JW, sorry, JG is Dutch


No it doesn’t. My mother is still in that congregation and in that 6 years they have only grown more arrogant.

This is a top down organisation, there is no two way street communication. I agree with @Ms_ladyblue: “I’m sure the elders have received similar information from others and by now, for the most part, are being as ‘a stiff necked people.‘“
Exactly so. It is no coincidence that a stiff neck is a pain the ass!
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Astonishing how Watchtower elders go from praying over the spiritually sick to persecuting those with divergent opinions in a single struggle session judicial committee meeting. They will stand in judgment jointly and severally before God for the harm they’ve inflicted on the widow and orphan in his name.

how is @BARNABY THE DOG. tonight? today.
It appears to be all about show, and nothing about content. It amazed me when I was awakened to the truth, that I had learnt nothing more about the bible than the basic belief that even christendom are aware of - essentially Mathew 6 “Lord‘s Prayer” and that it started in 1914. Okay, we didn’t have the trinity, and missed out on birthdays (but were allowed anniversaries?!), but that was all. So given that no one in the watchtower knows more than I did, 40 years ago when I left, (eg, zero ) one has to conclude that the outward piety is all for show. As you say, changing piety to condemnation can happen with the flick of a switch when you say “wait a minute….this can’t be right.” How am I? Thanks for asking, I’m sitting down drinking tea, the dog curled up at my side, snoring, I’m board witless through sitting down doing nothing all morning, so resolved to read through watchman and now I’m going to stagger off to my workshop and continue making my keepsake box out of Purple Heart and oak wood and decorate it with inlaid snails, chewed leaves, rabbits and stylised windswept trees. I’m a bit accident prone in the workshop…I actually cut my hand yesterday on a saw that I was NOT using!
 

kenmuldoon55

Well-known member
This is not even close to finished...and I'm not sure a certain half of me will let me do this even though that person completely agrees...anyway, here's what i got so far....




Needless to say, I was raised in the truth. The difference is, my father knew the bible and everything the Org put out better than anyone else, and all you needed to do, to have that education installed into you, was be one of his sons.

Back in the 80’s when I became a young man, and having this kind of background, I really started to dig deep into what was going on in the world.

But that happened partially on accident.

I needed extra credit in High School, and the janitor gave a presentation of the assignation of JFK. I didn’t know anything really one way or another, and everyone made fun of this guy. I had heard him ridiculed by people who’d seen his presentation. But I needed the credits so I went anyway, fully expecting to laugh and ridicule this guy afterwards.

What happened instead is I left that presentation thinking to myself, “wow, he made a lot of sense.” “back and to the left.” There’s never been a good argument why that happened from a shooter from behind. “Back and to the left” was from the perspective of Kennedy who was obviously shot from the front and not behind.


This was when I truly began to understand Satan’s power, and how he really does “transform himself into an angel of light” by being able to use his governments to cover up this kind of a crime.

It was then that I really began to wonder how much Satan was hiding. It makes sense after all, a demon, who’s intent is evil, and wants to make himself seem like he’s an angel of good, would cover-up is evil intent.

This is when I really began to dig deep. Around this same time, I met my wife we got and turns out she’d never been vaccinated. Her Mom also a Witness had researched vaccines, and decided the bad outweighed any good from vaccines, and so she never vaccinated her daughter. And she used a “religious exemption to avoid vaccinations for public schools.

Me being open minded, looked into it. Short version, way before my kids were born I knew I would never vaccinate my kids. Back in the 80’s the pharmaceutical companies threatened to stop manufacturing vaccines, because they were losing their shirts from liability lawsuits! In other words, their vaccines were injuring and killing people. But because the “whole world lies in the power of the wicked one” and congress rather than look into vaccine dangers, set up what many call the “vaccine injury fund.” And indeed that is what it is. You cannot sue a vaccine manufacturer now for damages from a bad vaccine that injures or kills you, you have to sue the government. Which have added an excise tax to vaccines to pay for the vaccine injuries. It is an evil demonic scam that the devil has made sure almost no one knows about.

So having said all of that, when my kids were born, we did not vaccinate them and used a religious exemption in part the scripture about the body being a temple.

So years before Covid, there was no way I would ever get another vaccine myself or vaccinate my kids. Vaccines are NOT SAFE OR EFFECTIVE. That is a Satanic lie!

Then rolled out “Covid”.

For many years we used the analogy of the Bible being the “owners manual for human beings because God was the creator.”

Well Covid was propagated off the PCR test, so I think we should look at what the creator of the PCR test had to say about using the PCR test as a diagnostic, and by extension since Fauci was using it that way, what the creator of the PCR put out in his “owners manual” for the PCR test.

1) …he said you cannot use it for what the whole world used it for, a diagnostic(in other words you cannot use the PCR to test whether someone has Covid or not.) and 2) he said Fauci was no scientist.




|So if we used the standard that the creator knows the most about what he created, then we have to conclude that Kerry Mullis set the definitive standard for the PCR test, and therefore everything the governments have been doing around the world is fraud and their conclusions are based on fraud and not “misinformation”. Rather your conclusions are based on misinformation since they all originate with the father of the lie. Kerry Mullis was not a government stooge. In fact he’s dead now.

My first red flag with regard to Covid came with the Mask hysteria. I use “masks” as part of the PPE for what I do for a living. I put “masks” in quotations, because, a “mask” had different meanings. In my case I have several respirators that I use. A “respirator” is defined as “A device worn over the mouth or nose or both to protect the respiratory tract from harmful dust or fumes”

Another definition, “a mask or device worn over the mouth and nose to protect the respiratory system by filtering out dangerous substances (such as dusts, fumes, or bacteria) from inhaled air”

Keyword here, “mask” and “by filtering out dangerous substances.”

I own several respirators. And they in fact, “filter out dangerous substances.” Some better than other like my $1200 PaPR. (Powered air Purifying Respirator.)

Your hanky, and your “surgeon mask” doesn’t do anything. And OSHA knows this because for 40 years they have regulated it. The surgeon suite is a giant respirator. That surgeon mask is a dust a sweat filter, nothing more!

But the real problem with “masks” is not that they don’t work, but for a fact they cause harm, especially to young children. They force people to re-breathe carbon dioxide in children, that can cause permanent brain damage.

For more than 20 years I have used and studied respirators. What happened in 2020 is clear evidence that the governments are controlled by Satan. OSHA has had laws regarding mask use for 40 plus years. They threw them all out the window like they didn’t exist, over night. FORTY YEARS of research and study, just to say, “Everyone needs to wear a mask”.

And literally a few days prior they levied tens of thousands of dollars of fines to companies who just told their employees to wear masks. You know why? Oh, boy, because there is a statute. An actual law, which prohibits any employer from requiring an employee to perform a task that requires a respirator, without giving them a medical evaluation. And if you “fail” the medical evaluation, you cannot be required to wear a mask, and if you are an actual Christian you cannot “strongly suggest” a person with a medical exemption, wear a mask.


In other words, “Strongly suggesting a mask” is in fact, against the actual law, since the law is not made up of executive orders. Maybe you guys no longer know there are three branches of government, The judiciary, the executive, and the legislative. The Legislative is the only branch that can make actual laws. And even then “congress shall make no law” means the legislative cannot change that law.
Great piece unfortunately Truth and facts are irrelevant in this upside down madhouse of a world and most love it that way.
 
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