Seven Jehovah's Witnesses killed in Kingdom Hall shooting in Hamburg, Germany.

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Hamburg shooting update (translated article). They actually did their ecumenical commemoration at which JW were not present.

I confuses me that the witnesses cannot respond more empathetically with their community. I should not criticise I suppose. There is clearly no answer anyone can give to mollify any emotion or reasoning at all in this tragedy, but on every occasion without exception it seems, the watchtower’s prevailing attitude of isolation and segregation reigns supreme and stifles the need for open reasoning in their ministry with the public. The bible speaks of the issue. “The day of one’s death is better than the day of their birth”. Watchtower used to quote this in their various diatribes on why birthdays should not be celebrated, but its meaning is all to do with what has been accomplished in one’s life. At the dreadful and awfully poignant funerals to come the seemingly obligatory salutation to the congregation not to “eulogise the dead” will be intoned, before the values of the deceased will be briefly referred to before giving a witness about the hope as approved by watchtower. They treat the memorial in the same manner. Send out leaflets, attend, warn about mental illness and who should and should not partake. In Russia, witnesses are abandoned to the State, put in jail and silenced and watchtower concern is focussed, on what? Assets robbed by the State in Russia, while they themselves rob the brothers world wide of their Kingdom Halls! Faith has been monetised, traded and diminished in value and this tragedy is a symptom of what is going on behind closed doors in the GB meeting room. The opportunity for self examination will be buried with their victims.
 

Shekinah

Well-known member
And you’ve helped me a lot sister ( I think I am right) I joined your Facebook group after being away for a long time and it took a while to digest everything, still am lol 💙
Did you go by the same name sis? Was it jw end time prophesies? xx 🙂
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
No mention of the fact that the shooter was a former attendee. The Watchtower is at least consistent. They are always dishonest in one way or another.
I wonder what spiritual substance there will be on offer at the subsequent local needs talk and if elders will look to their qualities in the guidance of their flock. Why did he become a “former” member?
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
It is all about having faith in Jehovah, as Jesus had. Although I had mostly positive experiences while I was associated with JWs it was not until I had a "calling" that everything went sideways, then downhill. Except, now I accept that I have another assignment since my faith is still intact by God's power. By the insight given to me, as I take no credit for figuring anything out on my own, it is possible to go forward in the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses by looking beyond the Watchtower and its many stumbling blocks to the prophecies, which speak to all the matters that are most relevant. That's what Kingdom Bulletin #24 is about. Many don't realize it yet but the mass murder of Jehovah's Witnesses in their Kingdom Hall is a huge stumbling block. Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it.
I am not sure that one can go forward in the faith of the witnesses and remain within any longer. I don’t know if it is peculiar to my tenuous understanding in that watchtower never satisfactorily evidenced prophesy of the end times, but allowed critical factors of our own involvement to be concealed in recognising where, precisely, the disgusting thing is standing. They directed us look outwardly, and not inwardly. Thus as we looked elsewhere, the evil was allowed to take root within. It reminds me of that which Jesus said at the institution of the memorial “One seated here will betray me…”. Everyone there immediately looked to themselves. Watchtower had us all looking way out into christendom instead of within to those gathered. They still do not see it to this day. Imagine the response if we had been looking inwards. How would Splane ever have been able to leave the studio after his ”extended generation“ comedy act, or indeed, how would the GB ever been able to elevate themselves to usurp the place of Jesus? Watchtower appears dead. It’s purpose now only to be exposed.
 

Bk Kevin

Well-known member
Robert had posed these questions in one of his comments.
'Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it. end quote.

Now here's what I found in the Bible in relation to some answers directly from Jehovah himself to Moses.

46 These are the regulations and the judicial decisions+ and the laws that Jehovah set between himself and the sons of Israel in Mount Sinai by means of Moses.

18 “‘If, though, despite these things, YOU will not listen to me, I shall then have to chastise YOU seven times as much* for YOUR sins.+ 19 And I shall have to break the pride of YOUR strength and make YOUR heavens like iron+ and YOUR earth like copper. 20 And YOUR power will simply be expended for nothing, as YOUR earth will not give its yield,+ and the tree of the earth will not give its fruit.+21 “‘But if YOU keep walking in opposition to me and not wishing to listen to me, I shall then have to inflict seven times more blows upon YOU according to YOUR sins.+ 22 And I will send the wild beasts of the field among YOU,+ and they will certainly bereave YOU of children+ and cut off YOUR domestic animals and reduce the number of YOU, and YOUR roads will actually be desolated.+23 “‘Nevertheless, if with these things YOU do not let yourselves be corrected by me+ and YOU just have to walk in opposition to me, 24 I, yes, I, shall then have to walk in opposition to YOU;+ and I, even I, shall have to strike YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 25 And I shall certainly bring upon YOU a sword wreaking vengeance+ for the covenant;+ and YOU will indeed gather yourselves into YOUR cities, and I shall certainly send pestilence into the midst of YOU,+ and YOU must be given into the hand of an enemy.+ 26 When I have broken for YOU the rods around which ring-shaped loaves are suspended,*+ ten women will then actually bake YOUR bread in but one oven and give back YOUR bread by weight;+ and YOU must eat but YOU will not be satisfied.+27 “‘If, however, with this YOU will not listen to me and YOU just must walk in opposition to me,+ 28 I shall then have to walk in heated opposition to YOU,+ and I, yes, I, shall have to chastise YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 29 So YOU will have to eat the flesh of YOUR sons, and YOU will eat the flesh of YOUR daughters.+ 30 And I shall certainly annihilate YOUR sacred high places+ and cut off YOUR incense stands and lay YOUR own carcasses upon the carcasses of YOUR dungy idols;+ and my soul will simply abhor YOU.+ 31 And I shall indeed give YOUR cities to the sword+ and lay YOUR sanctuaries* desolate,+ and I shall not smell YOUR restful odors.+ 32 And I, for my part, will lay the land desolate,+ and YOUR enemies who are dwelling in it will simply stare in amazement over it.+ 33 And YOU I shall scatter among the nations,+ and I will unsheathe a sword after YOU;+ and YOUR land must become a desolation,+ and YOUR cities will become a desolate ruin.34

Leviticus26:1-46> https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/leviticus/26/

 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
Robert had posed these questions in one of his comments.
'Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it. end quote.

Now here's what I found in the Bible in relation to some answers directly from Jehovah himself to Moses.

46 These are the regulations and the judicial decisions+ and the laws that Jehovah set between himself and the sons of Israel in Mount Sinai by means of Moses.

18 “‘If, though, despite these things, YOU will not listen to me, I shall then have to chastise YOU seven times as much* for YOUR sins.+ 19 And I shall have to break the pride of YOUR strength and make YOUR heavens like iron+ and YOUR earth like copper. 20 And YOUR power will simply be expended for nothing, as YOUR earth will not give its yield,+ and the tree of the earth will not give its fruit.+21 “‘But if YOU keep walking in opposition to me and not wishing to listen to me, I shall then have to inflict seven times more blows upon YOU according to YOUR sins.+ 22 And I will send the wild beasts of the field among YOU,+ and they will certainly bereave YOU of children+ and cut off YOUR domestic animals and reduce the number of YOU, and YOUR roads will actually be desolated.+23 “‘Nevertheless, if with these things YOU do not let yourselves be corrected by me+ and YOU just have to walk in opposition to me, 24 I, yes, I, shall then have to walk in opposition to YOU;+ and I, even I, shall have to strike YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 25 And I shall certainly bring upon YOU a sword wreaking vengeance+ for the covenant;+ and YOU will indeed gather yourselves into YOUR cities, and I shall certainly send pestilence into the midst of YOU,+ and YOU must be given into the hand of an enemy.+ 26 When I have broken for YOU the rods around which ring-shaped loaves are suspended,*+ ten women will then actually bake YOUR bread in but one oven and give back YOUR bread by weight;+ and YOU must eat but YOU will not be satisfied.+27 “‘If, however, with this YOU will not listen to me and YOU just must walk in opposition to me,+ 28 I shall then have to walk in heated opposition to YOU,+ and I, yes, I, shall have to chastise YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 29 So YOU will have to eat the flesh of YOUR sons, and YOU will eat the flesh of YOUR daughters.+ 30 And I shall certainly annihilate YOUR sacred high places+ and cut off YOUR incense stands and lay YOUR own carcasses upon the carcasses of YOUR dungy idols;+ and my soul will simply abhor YOU.+ 31 And I shall indeed give YOUR cities to the sword+ and lay YOUR sanctuaries* desolate,+ and I shall not smell YOUR restful odors.+ 32 And I, for my part, will lay the land desolate,+ and YOUR enemies who are dwelling in it will simply stare in amazement over it.+ 33 And YOU I shall scatter among the nations,+ and I will unsheathe a sword after YOU;+ and YOUR land must become a desolation,+ and YOUR cities will become a desolate ruin.34

Leviticus26:1-46> https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/leviticus/26/

A massive lesson here Brooklyn: When I first heard of this hours after it happened on BBC, apparently an off duty armed response team leader was just passing by and heard the shots and intervened.....when I heard this I thought wow! I imagined the survivors whoever young or old held their partners, brother's sister's, dad's hand in prayer were saved from a complete annihilation....why stop at 3,4 or 6?
 

PJ54

Well-known member
A massive lesson here Brooklyn: When I first heard of this hours after it happened on BBC, apparently an off duty armed response team leader was just passing by and heard the shots and intervened.....when I heard this I thought wow! I imagined the survivors whoever young or old held their partners, brother's sister's, dad's hand in prayer were saved from a complete annihilation....why stop at 3,4 or 6?
It's a small heads up but loud heads up. A message is being sent.
 

PJ54

Well-known member
Robert had posed these questions in one of his comments.
'Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it. end quote.

Now here's what I found in the Bible in relation to some answers directly from Jehovah himself to Moses.

46 These are the regulations and the judicial decisions+ and the laws that Jehovah set between himself and the sons of Israel in Mount Sinai by means of Moses.

18 “‘If, though, despite these things, YOU will not listen to me, I shall then have to chastise YOU seven times as much* for YOUR sins.+ 19 And I shall have to break the pride of YOUR strength and make YOUR heavens like iron+ and YOUR earth like copper. 20 And YOUR power will simply be expended for nothing, as YOUR earth will not give its yield,+ and the tree of the earth will not give its fruit.+21 “‘But if YOU keep walking in opposition to me and not wishing to listen to me, I shall then have to inflict seven times more blows upon YOU according to YOUR sins.+ 22 And I will send the wild beasts of the field among YOU,+ and they will certainly bereave YOU of children+ and cut off YOUR domestic animals and reduce the number of YOU, and YOUR roads will actually be desolated.+23 “‘Nevertheless, if with these things YOU do not let yourselves be corrected by me+ and YOU just have to walk in opposition to me, 24 I, yes, I, shall then have to walk in opposition to YOU;+ and I, even I, shall have to strike YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 25 And I shall certainly bring upon YOU a sword wreaking vengeance+ for the covenant;+ and YOU will indeed gather yourselves into YOUR cities, and I shall certainly send pestilence into the midst of YOU,+ and YOU must be given into the hand of an enemy.+ 26 When I have broken for YOU the rods around which ring-shaped loaves are suspended,*+ ten women will then actually bake YOUR bread in but one oven and give back YOUR bread by weight;+ and YOU must eat but YOU will not be satisfied.+27 “‘If, however, with this YOU will not listen to me and YOU just must walk in opposition to me,+ 28 I shall then have to walk in heated opposition to YOU,+ and I, yes, I, shall have to chastise YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 29 So YOU will have to eat the flesh of YOUR sons, and YOU will eat the flesh of YOUR daughters.+ 30 And I shall certainly annihilate YOUR sacred high places+ and cut off YOUR incense stands and lay YOUR own carcasses upon the carcasses of YOUR dungy idols;+ and my soul will simply abhor YOU.+ 31 And I shall indeed give YOUR cities to the sword+ and lay YOUR sanctuaries* desolate,+ and I shall not smell YOUR restful odors.+ 32 And I, for my part, will lay the land desolate,+ and YOUR enemies who are dwelling in it will simply stare in amazement over it.+ 33 And YOU I shall scatter among the nations,+ and I will unsheathe a sword after YOU;+ and YOUR land must become a desolation,+ and YOUR cities will become a desolate ruin.34

Leviticus26:1-46> https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/leviticus/26/

Considering what happened with Israel & Babylon, it should be noted that the result didn't happen in a fortnight or 7. This took a while for things to get to this point. After it was all said & done, everything went back to normal until Christ came on the scene. After Jesus was rejected, that was it for the Old Covenant. A few decades later Rome had to do the dirty work & it was the same thing all over again. However, this was for good. The Org today is in a similar situation & when the Chosen are tasked for the final witness against the world, we will have to take sides & the Org will do just as Israel has done (no doubt Christendom & others will act in a similar manner) & they will be shoved aside for good.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
Considering what happened with Israel & Babylon, it should be noted that the result didn't happen in a fortnight or 7. This took a while for things to get to this point. After it was all said & done, everything went back to normal until Christ came on the scene. After Jesus was rejected, that was it for the Old Covenant. A few decades later Rome had to do the dirty work & it was the same thing all over again. However, this was for good. The Org today is in a similar situation & when the Chosen are tasked for the final witness against the world, we will have to take sides & the Org will do just as Israel has done (no doubt Christendom & others will act in a similar manner) & they will be shoved aside for good.
Yeah! It must be difficult for Jehovah: What is it? How many times has He took such actions?....the flood and the many chastisements of Israel. The cleansing of the heavens is due next isn't it...then His house on earth?
 

PJ54

Well-known member
Yeah! It must be difficult for Jehovah: What is it? How many times has He took such actions?....the flood and the many chastisements of Israel. The cleansing of the heavens is due next isn't it...then His house on earth?
This article came to mind:
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
This article came to mind:
Wow PJ! We could never wish to be better informed!
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Robert had posed these questions in one of his comments.
'Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it. end quote.

Now here's what I found in the Bible in relation to some answers directly from Jehovah himself to Moses.

46 These are the regulations and the judicial decisions+ and the laws that Jehovah set between himself and the sons of Israel in Mount Sinai by means of Moses.

18 “‘If, though, despite these things, YOU will not listen to me, I shall then have to chastise YOU seven times as much* for YOUR sins.+ 19 And I shall have to break the pride of YOUR strength and make YOUR heavens like iron+ and YOUR earth like copper. 20 And YOUR power will simply be expended for nothing, as YOUR earth will not give its yield,+ and the tree of the earth will not give its fruit.+21 “‘But if YOU keep walking in opposition to me and not wishing to listen to me, I shall then have to inflict seven times more blows upon YOU according to YOUR sins.+ 22 And I will send the wild beasts of the field among YOU,+ and they will certainly bereave YOU of children+ and cut off YOUR domestic animals and reduce the number of YOU, and YOUR roads will actually be desolated.+23 “‘Nevertheless, if with these things YOU do not let yourselves be corrected by me+ and YOU just have to walk in opposition to me, 24 I, yes, I, shall then have to walk in opposition to YOU;+ and I, even I, shall have to strike YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 25 And I shall certainly bring upon YOU a sword wreaking vengeance+ for the covenant;+ and YOU will indeed gather yourselves into YOUR cities, and I shall certainly send pestilence into the midst of YOU,+ and YOU must be given into the hand of an enemy.+ 26 When I have broken for YOU the rods around which ring-shaped loaves are suspended,*+ ten women will then actually bake YOUR bread in but one oven and give back YOUR bread by weight;+ and YOU must eat but YOU will not be satisfied.+27 “‘If, however, with this YOU will not listen to me and YOU just must walk in opposition to me,+ 28 I shall then have to walk in heated opposition to YOU,+ and I, yes, I, shall have to chastise YOU seven times for YOUR sins.+ 29 So YOU will have to eat the flesh of YOUR sons, and YOU will eat the flesh of YOUR daughters.+ 30 And I shall certainly annihilate YOUR sacred high places+ and cut off YOUR incense stands and lay YOUR own carcasses upon the carcasses of YOUR dungy idols;+ and my soul will simply abhor YOU.+ 31 And I shall indeed give YOUR cities to the sword+ and lay YOUR sanctuaries* desolate,+ and I shall not smell YOUR restful odors.+ 32 And I, for my part, will lay the land desolate,+ and YOUR enemies who are dwelling in it will simply stare in amazement over it.+ 33 And YOU I shall scatter among the nations,+ and I will unsheathe a sword after YOU;+ and YOUR land must become a desolation,+ and YOUR cities will become a desolate ruin.34

Leviticus26:1-46> https://www.jw.org/en/library/bible/bi12/books/leviticus/26/

It has always impressed me that when Jehovah gives condemnation, He is not one to mince His words. He is the supreme artist of the fullest description, leaving no curse without colour in every detail, no nuance of destruction unapproached, no affliction without the bitterest taste of retribution:- an epitaph to disloyalty like no other. It would make any sinner proud to lie under such a gravestone of contempt, knowing full well that nothing could possibly be any worse than as described so poetically By Jehovah. I would imagine that though Satan be pitched into the deepest of black holes, that even such a monster of final and complete gravitational extravagance, could not swallow such an epitaph of condemnation that Jehovah would engrave in burning fire upon the most crystalline rose granite of infinite mass and weight of meaning and cast it in after him. Such penmanship that Jehovah wields can only be aspired to, never equalled.
 

Bk Kevin

Well-known member
Considering what happened with Israel & Babylon, it should be noted that the result didn't happen in a fortnight or 7. This took a while for things to get to this point. After it was all said & done, everything went back to normal until Christ came on the scene. After Jesus was rejected, that was it for the Old Covenant. A few decades later Rome had to do the dirty work & it was the same thing all over again. However, this was for good. The Org today is in a similar situation & when the Chosen are tasked for the final witness against the world, we will have to take sides & the Org will do just as Israel has done (no doubt Christendom & others will act in a similar manner) & they will be shoved aside for good.
Amen...
 
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