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The God Pill

Well-known member
Just ordered this bible so I can see all the places the aleph tav (the alpha and omega referred to in Revelation) appear in the hebrew scriptures to consult for my project. 🙂
 

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MickHewitt

Well-known member
All good, just been reading Ch9 https://jehovah-is-king.com/paradise/ 'Spiritual Paradise': Gives good dispute to such claims of watchtower contrasting today's congregation with first century's by pointing to the many letters Paul wrote to the congregations dealing with the realities of life not incongruous of today's ills, yet watchtower boasts a righteousness greater than 1st century annointed! They have a spiritual paradise while the 1st century didn't?
 

White Stone

Well-known member
Have read Justin Martyr’s First and Second Apology. There are errors in his writings like when quoting the prophecies, he got the wrong prophet to quote, nevertheless, got scriptures right though it varies.

Here’s some interesting points that got my attention.

1. He believes the Father is separate and different from the Son, the Father being the Lord of All, the unbegotten God. He understood the Son as being the First-born of the creation.(It got my attention as I thought the people back in 100AD-onwards believe the Trinity already.)

2. He accused the Jews of removing certain passages of scriptures that refers to Christ, like “the Lord is reigning from the tree”(refers to the cross or the stake)

3. Believed the demons came from the sons of the fallen Angels, the Nephilim. Which surprised me as I know it is mentioned in the first book of Enoch and believed upon the Qumran community where the Dead Sea Scrolls are found.

4. The Letter of Emperor Marcus Aurelius to the Senate about the Christians in his ranks that cause his victory against his enemies.

5. Gives us glimpse of how early Christians back then shows how important it is to be called a Christian, even though death awaits of their confession. For them, to refuse to be called a Christian even in the face of death is the same as renouncing Christ himself.

6. They call the Lord’s evening meal as Eucharist, or which means thanksgiving in english.( Again, which surprise me as it was how I was invited “Eat the eucharist.”

Overall, an interesting read of how Christians behave in those days. I will read next his Dialogue with Trypho.
 

MickHewitt

Well-known member
Have read Justin Martyr’s First and Second Apology. There are errors in his writings like when quoting the prophecies, he got the wrong prophet to quote, nevertheless, got scriptures right though it varies.

Here’s some interesting points that got my attention.

1. He believes the Father is separate and different from the Son, the Father being the Lord of All, the unbegotten God. He understood the Son as being the First-born of the creation.(It got my attention as I thought the people back in 100AD-onwards believe the Trinity already.)

2. He accused the Jews of removing certain passages of scriptures that refers to Christ, like “the Lord is reigning from the tree”(refers to the cross or the stake)

3. Believed the demons came from the sons of the fallen Angels, the Nephilim. Which surprised me as I know it is mentioned in the first book of Enoch and believed upon the Qumran community where the Dead Sea Scrolls are found.

4. The Letter of Emperor Marcus Aurelius to the Senate about the Christians in his ranks that cause his victory against his enemies.

5. Gives us glimpse of how early Christians back then shows how important it is to be called a Christian, even though death awaits of their confession. For them, to refuse to be called a Christian even in the face of death is the same as renouncing Christ himself.

6. They call the Lord’s evening meal as Eucharist, or which means thanksgiving in english.( Again, which surprise me as it was how I was invited “Eat the eucharist.”

Overall, an interesting read of how Christians behave in those days. I will read next his Dialogue with Trypho.
Christianity eventually destroyed Rome: Even though they (Romans) inculcated their saturnalia into Christian festivals there was more return to following Christ than all the deities and cults demanded by Rome. Now Empire knows this and has done everything to take away the divinity of Christ and replace it with the state! It's multi gendered state that Putin and Xi openly despise. I truly feel these ones are the vengence upon the arrogance of the West! That's why Zion will greet and help a great crowd!
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
Have read Justin Martyr’s First and Second Apology. There are errors in his writings like when quoting the prophecies, he got the wrong prophet to quote, nevertheless, got scriptures right though it varies.

Here’s some interesting points that got my attention.

1. He believes the Father is separate and different from the Son, the Father being the Lord of All, the unbegotten God. He understood the Son as being the First-born of the creation.(It got my attention as I thought the people back in 100AD-onwards believe the Trinity already.)

2. He accused the Jews of removing certain passages of scriptures that refers to Christ, like “the Lord is reigning from the tree”(refers to the cross or the stake)

3. Believed the demons came from the sons of the fallen Angels, the Nephilim. Which surprised me as I know it is mentioned in the first book of Enoch and believed upon the Qumran community where the Dead Sea Scrolls are found.

4. The Letter of Emperor Marcus Aurelius to the Senate about the Christians in his ranks that cause his victory against his enemies.

5. Gives us glimpse of how early Christians back then shows how important it is to be called a Christian, even though death awaits of their confession. For them, to refuse to be called a Christian even in the face of death is the same as renouncing Christ himself.

6. They call the Lord’s evening meal as Eucharist, or which means thanksgiving in english.( Again, which surprise me as it was how I was invited “Eat the eucharist.”

Overall, an interesting read of how Christians behave in those days. I will read next his Dialogue with Trypho.
I remember his apologies a committed defense of Christian faith at the time. Dialogue with trypho is a very good read I'd say precious in that it gives us a rare glimpse into Christian preaching in the early second century. Like the other texts he mentions passages we cannot find in our bibles. The only criticism I had that I can remember is he did not believe the father had a name it seems his platonist gentile background made him prone to accept the superstitious Jewish rejection of the name at the time. His work certainly lends support to unitarianism.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
I remember his apologies a committed defense of Christian faith at the time. Dialogue with trypho is a very good read I'd say precious in that it gives us a rare glimpse into Christian preaching in the early second century. Like the other texts he mentions passages we cannot find in our bibles. The only criticism I had that I can remember is he did not believe the father had a name it seems his platonist gentile background made him prone to accept the superstitious Jewish rejection of the name at the time. His work certainly lends support to unitarianism.
Forgot to mention that one about the Name. True, Ignatius so far from what I read, supports Unitarianism. I have yet to read the other early “Fathers” as they call them, to see where the teaching of Trinity begins.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
Keep me posted on Ignatius given the catholics seem to rely on him more than anyone in that time.
It’s when I read from where he calls the Father the only true God. The shorter version of his letter is forgery to make the Son as equal to the Father subtly if not obviously as even the WT acknowledges Ignatius not being Trinitarian. Such one example is chapter 18: The Glory of the Cross. If you compare the shorter and longer, there is a huge difference. The shorter version calls Jesus our God while the longer version calls him the Son of God.

No wonder they had to forge this shorter version as they see Ignatius or his contemporaries as a stepping stone to introduce the Trinity as being taught already by the Apostles.

I have yet to finish all his writings though, will continue at the Epistles of Ignatius for the Romans.
 

BARNABY THE DOG.

Well-known member
Christianity eventually destroyed Rome: Even though they (Romans) inculcated their saturnalia into Christian festivals there was more return to following Christ than all the deities and cults demanded by Rome. Now Empire knows this and has done everything to take away the divinity of Christ and replace it with the state! It's multi gendered state that Putin and Xi openly despise. I truly feel these ones are the vengence upon the arrogance of the West! That's why Zion will greet and help a great crowd!
You could well be right Mick. Jehovah uses whom He wishes to exact punishment, though I am not sure if the Ruskies et al have anything to shout about. It is refreshing that Putin has a sense of moral values, but what he gives with one hand, he takes with the other in a multiplicity of other evils. There are good people in Russia. If we did not have politicians to stir things up, life might be easier, but then, the law, such as it is, keeps evil at bay - or has done over the last few years. ‘Tomorrow‘ looks a little bleak.
 

White Stone

Well-known member
Even if Ignatius had called Jesus our Theos that would have not been explicitly trinitarian given the unitarian Ufilas creed calls the father Ton Theon of our Theos
Yes and it reminds me of what Thomas said “my Lord and my God”. I do have suspicion on the shorter version and don’t trust it as there are many words removed and changed. The way the shorter version was written seems to me to support the binitarianism, a stepping stone for introducing later on the trinitarianism.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
Yes and it reminds me of what Thomas said “my Lord and my God”. I do have suspicion on the shorter version and don’t trust it as there are many words removed and changed. The way the shorter version was written seems to me to support the binitarianism, a stepping stone for introducing later on the trinitarianism.
Do you have a link to the long version?
 

White Stone

Well-known member
Do you have a link to the long version?
I used the e-sword LT app and downloaded all the volumes of the Ante-Nicene Fathers book. It’s free though there are other books to download that must be paid. It also have many translations of the Bible there for free.

You will be surprised at the difference of the two. I’ve checked again the first chapter of his epistle to the Ephesians, and already saw the corruption in the first chapter.
 
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