EUROPE IMMINENT COLLAPSE

Cherry

Well-known member
As far as it depends upon you and you are not part of the world? Then Satan has no control of you. He only has control of the world. Sure Jehovah did not give Satan a blank check, that does not mean that Satan is not in control of the world. The no blank check ensures that Satan cannot destroy the planet and all life on it. But it does not limit his total control of the world at present. You are not the world, and Satan has no control of you. I cannot make it any clearer than that?
So when Jesus said: "I am not asking you to take them out of the world, but to protect them from the Evil One", what did that protection imply?... What does it mean that Jesus taught us to ask the Father to free us from the Evil One? Matthew 6:13. If the Devil controls everything, what is the point of having God's protection?...
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
If the Devil controls everything, what is the point of having God's protection?...

Your words "If the Devil controls everything" He does not control everything. Just the world. he is the ruler of the world. You are not the world or part of the world. He has no control of you unless you allow him to. Jesus is talking about Jehovah protecting his people against Satan's influence and temptations, so that our faith does not give out. But we must do our part for that protection to be valid in our case.

I posed this question "Christ has to be here first No? ie; he has taken up his Kingship." I don't believe I see evidence of it as yet? Or have I missed something?
 
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BagdadBill

Well-known member
Half the USA is fighting to preserve abortion while at the same time being intolerant of anyone not taking the Miracle Jab. The title of one of the most watched documentaries is "What is a woman?". Food is about to become scarce around the globe. Shipping and transportation is about to fall apart completely. Part due to fuel prices but also because of those coerced to take the Miracle Jab. People are rioting in at least two countries and other have recently. That is satan aplenty.
As far as protection, I have to say I don't know except maybe having more clarity on what is actually about to happen.
 

Cherry

Well-known member
Your words "If the Devil controls everything" He does not control everything. Just the world. he is the ruler of the world. You are not the world or part of the world. He has no control of you unless you allow him to. Jesus is talking about Jehovah protecting his people against Satan's influence and temptations, so that our faith does not give out. But we must do our part for that protection to be valid in our case.

I posed this question "Christ has to be here first No? ie; he has taken up his Kingship." I don't believe I see evidence of it as yet? Or have I missed something?
When I say that the Devil controls everything I mean everything in our world obviously. You state that the protection we receive is only spiritual. I, however, believe that this protection goes further.

The biblical account shows that God had to intervene to preserve the life of his own Son even when he was an infant. And when Jesus was an adult and already presented himself as the Messiah, they tried to kill him, but his time had not come.

If the Devil tried it with the Son of God himself, isn't he going to try it with the rest of God's servants, especially those who have a direct involvement with his purpose? Of course he will try!!

Another example is King David, who also had to flee due to danger of death and was protected by God. The Bible shows many examples of God intervening to preserve the lives of his servants. I don't understand how you don't see it...
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
When I say that the Devil controls everything I mean everything in our world obviously. You state that the protection we receive is only spiritual. I, however, believe that this protection goes further.

The biblical account shows that God had to intervene to preserve the life of his own Son even when he was an infant. And when Jesus was an adult and already presented himself as the Messiah, they tried to kill him, but his time had not come.

If the Devil tried it with the Son of God himself, isn't he going to try it with the rest of God's servants, especially those who have a direct involvement with his purpose? Of course he will try!!

Another example is King David, who also had to flee due to danger of death and was protected by God. The Bible shows many examples of God intervening to preserve the lives of his servants. I don't understand how you don't see it...

When Jesus was a born up until his murder and also why he was allowed to be murdered was because it was part of Jehovah's purpose. Although Satan did not do it himself he more than likely had a hand in Jesus death. However Jehovah cautioned Satan about killing Job specifically. Could that warning not apply to Jehovah's people today also? Satan's beast may persecute of even kill some of Jehovah's people and Satan even though he didn't pull the trigger is not free from blame, that is not to say we can blame him for everything? The preservation of David's life is also part of his Jehovah's purpose. Obviously Jesus is a descendant of David.

But how is all your xtra Jumping around proving your statement? "Of course, Christ is in control." Why are you trying so hard to legitimize it? What if it is not accurate? Cross-examining me won't make me see what you see. Still keep pluggin away sister or brother? you just might penetrate my thick skull? Maybe a refresher on humility is in order? You never can tell?
 

Cherry

Well-known member
When Jesus was a born up until his murder and also why he was allowed to be murdered was because it was part of Jehovah's purpose. Although Satan did not do it himself he more than likely had a hand in Jesus death. However Jehovah cautioned Satan about killing Job specifically. Could that warning not apply to Jehovah's people today also? Satan's beast may persecute of even kill some of Jehovah's people and Satan even though he didn't pull the trigger is not free from blame, that is not to say we can blame him for everything? The preservation of David's life is also part of his Jehovah's purpose. Obviously Jesus is a descendant of David.

But how is all your xtra Jumping around proving your statement? "Of course, Christ is in control." Why are you trying so hard to legitimize it? What if it is not accurate? Cross-examining me won't make me see what you see. Still keep pluggin away sister or brother? you just might penetrate my thick skull? Maybe a refresher on humility is in order? You never can tell?
This is not a matter of pride or humility. If you want to believe that God has left us at the mercy of whatever the Devil wants, you are within your rights. I am also entitled to believe that God intervenes at specific times to preserve the lives of his servants or help them overcome trials. I don't understand why it bothers you so much that I believe it this way...

He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High
shelters in the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I say to the Lord: “You are my refuge,
my strength, the God in whom I trust.”

3 Only he can deliver you from the traps of the hunter
and deadly plagues,
4 he for he will cover you with his feathers
and under his wings you will find refuge.
His truth of him will be your shield and your stronghold!
5 You will not fear the terror of the night,
nor the arrow that flies by day,
6 nor the plague that lurks in the shadows
nor the plague that destroys at noon.
7 A thousand may fall at your left,
and ten thousand to your right,
but it won't affect you.
8 All you have to do is open your eyes wide,
to see the wicked get what they deserve.

9 Since you have made the Lord your refuge,
to the Most High for your protection,
10 no evil will befall you,
no calamity will come to your home.
11 For he will order his angels
take care of you in all your ways.
12 With his own hands they will lift you up
so that you do not trip over any stone.
13 You will crush the lion and the viper;
you will trample beasts and serpents!

14 “I will deliver him, because he welcomes me;
I will protect him, because he knows my name.
15 He will call on me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in moments of anguish;
I will free him and fill him with honors.
16 I will fill him with many years of life
and I will make him enjoy my salvation". PSALM 91
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
This is not a matter of pride or humility. If you want to believe that God has left us at the mercy of whatever the Devil wants, you are within your rights. I am also entitled to believe that God intervenes at specific times to preserve the lives of his servants or help them overcome trials. I don't understand why it bothers you so much that I believe it this way...

He who dwells in the shelter of the Most High
shelters in the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I say to the Lord: “You are my refuge,
my strength, the God in whom I trust.”

3 Only he can deliver you from the traps of the hunter
and deadly plagues,
4 he for he will cover you with his feathers
and under his wings you will find refuge.
His truth of him will be your shield and your stronghold!
5 You will not fear the terror of the night,
nor the arrow that flies by day,
6 nor the plague that lurks in the shadows
nor the plague that destroys at noon.
7 A thousand may fall at your left,
and ten thousand to your right,
but it won't affect you.
8 All you have to do is open your eyes wide,
to see the wicked get what they deserve.

9 Since you have made the Lord your refuge,
to the Most High for your protection,
10 no evil will befall you,
no calamity will come to your home.
11 For he will order his angels
take care of you in all your ways.
12 With his own hands they will lift you up
so that you do not trip over any stone.
13 You will crush the lion and the viper;
you will trample beasts and serpents!

14 “I will deliver him, because he welcomes me;
I will protect him, because he knows my name.
15 He will call on me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in moments of anguish;
I will free him and fill him with honors.
16 I will fill him with many years of life
and I will make him enjoy my salvation". PSALM 91

Nice encouraging scripture, thank you. But how does that prove, Christ is in control of the world at present?
 

Cherry

Well-known member
Nice encouraging scripture, thank you. But how does that prove, Christ is in control of the world at present?
We are witnessing and experiencing a genocide with biological attack, nanotechnology, 5G technology, geoengineering, etc... It is poisoning us by land, sea and air, and famine and nuclear war threaten us, not counting the personal attacks of the Devil and you ask me how do I relate Psalm 91 to the control of Christ?... Who do you think God has put in our care?... I still don't understand how you can't see it...

"As you kept the words about my endurance, so I will keep you in the hour of trial, which is going to come on all the inhabited earth to test those who live on the earth." Revelation 3:10
 

Cherry

Well-known member
Nice encouraging scripture, thank you. But how does that prove, Christ is in control of the world at present?
"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth. They were holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. 2 I also saw another angel who ascended from the rising of the sun bearing a seal of the living God, and who cried out loudly to the four angels who had been granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 He said to them: “Do not harm them! neither to the earth nor to the sea nor to the trees until we seal the slaves of our God in their foreheads!” Revelation 7:1-3

Angels are under whose orders?... Are you really going to keep asking me if Christ is in control of what happens on our planet?...
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
We are witnessing and experiencing a genocide with biological attack, nanotechnology, 5G technology, geoengineering, etc... It is poisoning us by land, sea and air, and famine and nuclear war threaten us, not counting the personal attacks of the Devil and you ask me how do I relate Psalm 91 to the control of Christ?... Who do you think God has put in our care?... I still don't understand how you can't see it...

"As you kept the words about my endurance, so I will keep you in the hour of trial, which is going to come on all the inhabited earth to test those who live on the earth." Revelation 3:10

Like I said; Jehovah will intervene at his own appointed time. His appointed time does not take into account what you want. Jesus must take up his Kingship first before he takes control. Reading the bible does not tell us when Christ will arrive. it just tells what we might expect. His arrival will be like a thief. no-one knows when he will come? We just need to keep on the watch for it. You said Christ is in control and yet you say he has not arrived yet. I agree things are looking pretty grim, and the Kingdom is near. But we must continue with our job warning others, because the Kingdom will get here when it gets here and not before but.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
"After this I saw four angels standing at the four corners of the earth. They were holding back the four winds of the earth so that no wind would blow on the earth or on the sea or on any tree. 2 I also saw another angel who ascended from the rising of the sun bearing a seal of the living God, and who cried out loudly to the four angels who had been granted to harm the earth and the sea, 3 He said to them: “Do not harm them! neither to the earth nor to the sea nor to the trees until we seal the slaves of our God in their foreheads!” Revelation 7:1-3

Angels are under whose orders?... Are you really going to keep asking me if Christ is in control of what happens on our planet?...

I'm not asking you if Christ is in control of what happens on our planet? You're saying Christ is in control. I'm saying not quite yet, however things are becoming exciting. Can't be far off but? Jesus will take up his kingship at an appointed time, Like a thief in the night even. We must be vigilant and keep on the watch while still trying to find others. BTW you do realize that the verses you quoted refer to the cutting short of the GT? You're not saying that the GT has started? Or are you? Hm? Then I sure did miss something. Oh well.
 
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Cherry

Well-known member
I'm not asking you if Christ is in control of what happens on our planet? You're saying Christ is in control. I'm saying not quite yet, however things are becoming exciting. Can't be far off but? Jesus will take up his kingship at an appointed time, Like a thief in the night even. We must be vigilant and keep on the watch while still trying to find others. BTW you do realize that the verses you quoted refer to the cutting short of the GT? You're not saying that the GT has started? Or are you? Hm? Then I sure did miss something. Oh well.
Either you understand me or you don't want to understand me... I haven't said that Christ has begun to rule. One thing is to govern, and quite another not to control and allow absolute chaos to reign. Halfway there is Christ.

God allowed Job to be tested, but God also set a limit. And it is to that limit that I refer. God, like Christ, must allow his servants to be tested. They must let events unfold in fulfillment of the prophecies.

However, we will not all be tested equally, because we do not all have the same circumstances. And both God and Christ know this and are condescending. That is why they give us the output to withstand the tests. Without their help, who could be sure of being victorious?

So if they give us the exit, it is a sign that they are in control because the Devil would have no mercy with us. And on a level unknown to us, they also maintain order within the chaos so that their purpose is carried out.

The Evil One would like nothing more than for the plan of Christ's reign to be frustrated. And we know that he has done everything in his power to screw it up, and he will keep trying. But God and Christ are in control. In fact, God will lure his enemy with hooks.

The fact of attracting him with hooks is a way of saying that God is going to force him to reach the end, because otherwise the enemy would continue manipulating everything at his whim. But God has set deadlines, and he is not going to allow the Devil to reduce or lengthen the times at will and at any cost.

Had they not been in control, would the Evil One have enabled the good news of the kingdom to be preached more than a century ago, and to the extent that it has been? Of course not! The Devil is that cheating competitor who will play dirty in order to win. He would never respect the rules of the game. And that is where Christ's control comes in, for God has given him all authority.

You are not forced to accept my perception of things, nor I yours. But at least let's respect each other. Not everyone has the same level of spiritual understanding. That is why it is necessary to be flexible with our fellow man, and not be a stumbling block in his faith. For my part, I'll leave it here.
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
I haven't said that Christ has begun to rule.

I agree, you did not say that Christ has begun to rule. This is what you said that started our conversation.“Of course, Christ is in control”
That is why it is necessary to be flexible with our fellow man
But you have not been flexible you have tried so hard to make me believe your statement. I'm sorry if I came across as disrespectful. I was not.
 
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