Hi! Newbie here

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It must have been hard at first to explain to explain a color to a person who is blind since birth. With no experience of such, it would be hard if not impossible to relate such things that he could easily grasp or imagine exactly. How much more if that person is also deaf?

Regarding Jesus words, you’re misinterpreting it and taking it out of context. He was talking about the miracle of his resurrection. So that he says that those who believed of the “miracle” of his resurrection yet who have not seen him are blessed, because they have shown faith. The blinds in Jesus’ time have just heard a report about him and already believed and was just waiting for Jesus to come to their town to be healed. The Sidonian woman who has a daughter possessed by demon, when she heard the miracles Jesus have done, showed faith by begging Jesus to heal her daughter.

Dreams given are not always necessarily to be of prophetic significance, but often times for direction, reminder and the likes. If God sees the need to provide direction or answer the one who pleads to Him through a dream, or strengthen others through it, what are we to say to Him?

I know that sharing it will invite ridicule from some, but also expect a positive discussion from others. The reaction really depends on one’s experiences in life and culture and his way of thinking. I do respect if others will not believe, but to be honest, I’m disappointed if they take it in a negative way.

To say that one don’t need a dream(one of miracles) to strengthen their faith, is a matter of opinion. Miracles come in different forms, and it benefits one’s faith to God in dire situations.
I do not think questioning scriptural reasoning is ridicule. Some may take it so such because it is deservedly so, but rather than dwell on the frustrations of others, it would be more beneficial to dwell instead on its content. As I mentioned to Mick, why speak in interpretation of dreams where confusion, intrigue, ambiguity and wonderment are rife, not to mention the inability to remember parts of it? Surely, if our course of action is so vital to Jehovah’s purpose, why would he not be explicit in His demand to the recipient and in such person‘s relation of such facts?

Jehovah cannot lie. Why would he abuse His perfection by being so casual in His direction of a mere human by giving him an illusion in the course of action He requires that one to take. Is it not possible that our dreams stem from our own subconscious thought processes that Jehovah allows to occur in our minds through design? And if such is by design, then why is it not clear and so easily misconstrued? There clearly are other functions of the brain involved. Is it not more reasonable to assume our dreams are a function of brain‘s reasoning on a response to our conscious thinking? There are a few levels in the depth of sleep, each serving a purpose as yet not fully explained. That in itself should alert us to be cautious in labelling and legitimising our reasoning as “from Jehovah”. Why take such a mundane (though wondrous) function and translate it into an act of Jehovah to elevate our position in our contentions with others? This is more to do with man’s religious one-upmanship. The watchtower have refined it to an art form. “We are Jehovah’s channel”. The clergy do the same. “God wills it”, when they mean ”Do as I say. I am right. I have Jehovah’s attention and His work to do and explain”. What I note about your argument, and is most striking, is that you choose not to answer my queries, which are legitimate, but simply restate your claim in a different manner and that makes your reasoning merely supportive of what you think it might be - not that you speak for Jehovah as a teacher and revealer of dreams. And if you cannot support your thinking, is it wise to claim it is from Jehovah?
 
I'll tell you what @White Stone why don't you post your address, I'll come to your house and give you your well desevere ass kicking, then maybe I'll feel better about you judging me when you kill me at Armageddon. That way you can get the last lick in! YAY!!!!!!!!
Leave him be, Nomex, act as the wiser man that you are. He made his own bed and will have to lie in it now.
 
BTD when it comes to interpreting dreams or the like, don’t we have to take into consideration what 1 Corinthians 13: 8-10?

“Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.”
And maybe verses 11-13 sums it up.

😊
What did Paul meant when he writes “when what is complete comes” that will end all what is partial? What is the complete that is coming?
 
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BTD when it comes to interpreting dreams or the like, don’t we have to take into consideration what 1 Corinthians 13: 8-10?

“Love never fails. But if there are gifts of prophecy, they will be done away with; if there are tongues, they will cease; if there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially, but when what is complete comes, what is partial will be done away with.”
And maybe verses 11-13 sums it up.

😊
Well yes of course. But that does not do away with learning through contending the issue. I am trying to satisfy my own reasoning. Would Jehovah speak to others in dreams? I want to know. The issue of Jehovah directing us through dreams was claimed to be true. I want to see the evidence and not be given a simple reiteration of the same claim as an answer. An assumption does not become a fact simply by repeating it in a multiplicity of ways - even if watchtower think it does. The instances of dreams and visions are explained in the bible and resolved. No one doubts Saul’s experience. The writing on the wall at Babylon was explained. These things were for the fulfilment of prophesy and in example. If a brother claims to have the power to interpret dreams, then I want to know about it and tease out the truth. Is that not so in all of us? How many times do we have to be reminded of watchtowers infidelity?
 
Leave him be, Nomex, act as the wiser man that you are. He made his own bed and will have to lie in it now.
You have provided nothing in this thread but to scoff. It would be wiser to read your Bible or do other beneficial things than to have your time reading this thread.I’m surprised that you’re still wasting your time here.
 
What did Paul meant when he writes “when what is complete comes” that will end all what is partial? What is the complete that is coming?
A complete understanding of the truth behind the purpose of Jehovah. That scripture cannot be used to suggest that fragments of truth can be used to justify the inexplicable reasoning of imperfect man. The scripture illustrates the completion of Jehovah’s prophesy. It is of Jehovah, not man that the explanation comes. The scriptures are true of Jehovah. If we use them to justify our opinion, then we must show the evidence for such assumption from those scriptures and test it in the fire to bring out its purity. We cannot just glibly say “This is true“, without definitive context. It’s fine to suggest our thinking on a topic, but we should be prepared to defend it. If our thinking is erroneous, there is no shame in that (depending on how presumptuous our thinking may be), and we allow others to educate ourselves through their deeper insight. When we assume we are right against all supported biblical reasoning, then we are not as wise as we thought we were, or, that we need to think things through a little more. You may be right. So, prove it! That is all that is being asked. Clearly you believe it. Asking our opinion on a scripture hardly justifies your claim in respect of your dreams. The one you quote only suggests that you yourself are not sure of the genesis of your dreams, otherwise, why state it? I do not understand.
 
What did Paul meant when he writes “when what is complete comes” that will end all what is partial? What is the complete that is coming?
Christ has not returned. The parousia has not begun. The two witnesses have not been initiated. There are no dreams, for there is no purpose to fulfill yet. That is how God works. Fairly simple
 
Well yes of course. But that does not do away with learning through contending the issue. I am trying to satisfy my own reasoning. Would Jehovah speak to others in dreams? I want to know. The issue of Jehovah directing us through dreams was claimed to be true. I want to see the evidence and not be given a simple reiteration of the same claim as an answer. An assumption does not become a fact simply by repeating it in a multiplicity of ways - even if watchtower think it does. The instances of dreams and visions are explained in the bible and resolved. No one doubts Saul’s experience. The writing on the wall at Babylon was explained. These things were for the fulfilment of prophesy and in example. If a brother claims to have the power to interpret dreams, then I want to know about it and tease out the truth. Is that not so in all of us? How many times do we have to be reminded of watchtowers infidelity?
No, I totally agree with what you’re saying. The main part of those verses in 1Corinthians I was focusing on ( and in context of course) was that “those things would be done away with.”
I wouldn’t think that just any given person could just ‘claim’ to interpret dreams. If that were the case, anyone could make some claim about something but it may or not be true. Just like WT claims they are the FDS but how do we know? Well, most of us on this forum well know the truth about that.
I just can’t believe Jehovah would back someone just claiming to interpret dreams…and maybe because he calls himself White Stone? Why not give his real name like Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, among others?

That’s just my two cents I’m putting in…for what it’s worth.

☺️
 
You have provided nothing in this thread but to scoff. It would be wiser to read your Bible or do other beneficial things than to have your time reading this thread.I’m surprised that you’re still wasting your time here.
Well, you can’t fault some of us for having righteous indignation, can you?

And as for you giving us advice on how to be wise…maybe it would be ‘wiser’ for you to read your Bible or do other beneficial things besides posting this thread to make a showy display of your being able to interpret dreams. Aren’t you being more like the Pharisees and Sadducees? Where’s your Christlike attitude?

I think everyone has been pretty fair here trying to reason with you on this topic. Don’t you agree? And if not, maybe it’s because they don’t agree with you. Why did you post this thread if you only wanted comments that would puff you up? Did you only want those who read it to come on here and kiss up to you by giving you praise? Remember what the apostle Paul said about that?

It’s never a waste of time to try and help someone when we see the need to help, no matter how bombastic it may be. Unless you already think you have it all figured out.
I have nothing against you personally, I don’t even know you but you really should pray to Jehovah in earnestness, and if all you can take away from these comments is that we’re wasting our time here…then you might be alone in achieving whatever you’re setting out to do. If I were you I would stop and consider what those have responded on this thread to you. Try to understand the meaning and the intent behind the words. Humility on your part will go a long way.

*And I don’t consider this as scoffing.

Hopefully, your sista in the faith.

😊
 
True. There are many ways to reach the senses. The brain is a profound mechanism of Ingenuity . What irritates, maybe even intrigues me about this issue of dreams from Jehovah as a means to point the way is, why on earth would he do so via a riddle or illustration that can be misunderstood, or confuse the person? If Jehovah wanted to give someone a one to one advantage in insight into a particular course of action, would He not do so explicitly, rather than via an illusion of thought that can be misconstrued or ambiguous or indeed, leave the recipient wondering what it meant? If I sent you a letter describing a motorway slip road, how many conclusions could you draw from that, besides the reason why would I do such a thing?
Exactly! Jehovah wants to catch us in not catch us out with unobtainable understanding.
 
No, I totally agree with what you’re saying. The main part of those verses in 1Corinthians I was focusing on ( and in context of course) was that “those things would be done away with.”
I wouldn’t think that just any given person could just ‘claim’ to interpret dreams. If that were the case, anyone could make some claim about something but it may or not be true. Just like WT claims they are the FDS but how do we know? Well, most of us on this forum well know the truth about that.
I just can’t believe Jehovah would back someone just claiming to interpret dreams…and maybe because he calls himself White Stone? Why not give his real name like Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, among others?

That’s just my two cents I’m putting in…for what it’s worth.

☺️
I think you’re not understanding what is going on. I did not claim to be an interpreter of dreams, like that of Daniel. The point being, was having a dream from God. It could be a reminder or faith strengthener(like dreaming of paradise) or an answer to ones query. Whether it comes from God, God knows.

It seems to me you have point it all to have a prophetic significance, which was not the points I present. Maybe you are just reading others statements but not statements from me.
 
Christ has not returned. The parousia has not begun. The two witnesses have not been initiated. There are no dreams, for there is no purpose to fulfill yet. That is how God works. Fairly simple
Can we just agree to disagree?

Yes, the complete comes at Christ’s return or coming. Which will happen “after” the prophesying of the Two Witnesses. Christ’s coming(Parousia) is associated with his manifestation or revelation, which triggers the Armageddon which is also called the conclusion of system of things or end of age. Where every eye will see and all the tribes on earth will beat themselves in grief when they see the Christ coming with all his angels.
 
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Well yes of course. But that does not do away with learning through contending the issue. I am trying to satisfy my own reasoning. Would Jehovah speak to others in dreams? I want to know. The issue of Jehovah directing us through dreams was claimed to be true. I want to see the evidence and not be given a simple reiteration of the same claim as an answer. An assumption does not become a fact simply by repeating it in a multiplicity of ways - even if watchtower think it does. The instances of dreams and visions are explained in the bible and resolved. No one doubts Saul’s experience. The writing on the wall at Babylon was explained. These things were for the fulfilment of prophesy and in example. If a brother claims to have the power to interpret dreams, then I want to know about it and tease out the truth. Is that not so in all of us? How many times do we have to be reminded of watchtowers infidelity?
I think were going around at the start again. But yes, unless the dream has prophetic significance or at least, can have an external evidence, then you can’t prove it to others.

Can we just agree to disagree?

Nevertheless, thank you for being understanding.
 
Dreams given are not always necessarily to be of prophetic significance, but often times for direction, reminder and the likes. If God sees the need to provide direction or answer the one who pleads to Him through a dream, or strengthen others through it, what are we to say to Him?
I want to clarify something or a correction here. As I’m rereading it, it seems this can also be interpreted as pleading God to answer him through a dream, which is not what I intended. It was to be meant, if one pleads to God for answer, and He decided to give the answer through a dream.
 
No, I totally agree with what you’re saying. The main part of those verses in 1Corinthians I was focusing on ( and in context of course) was that “those things would be done away with.”
I wouldn’t think that just any given person could just ‘claim’ to interpret dreams. If that were the case, anyone could make some claim about something but it may or not be true. Just like WT claims they are the FDS but how do we know? Well, most of us on this forum well know the truth about that.
I just can’t believe Jehovah would back someone just claiming to interpret dreams…and maybe because he calls himself White Stone? Why not give his real name like Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, among others?

That’s just my two cents I’m putting in…for what it’s worth.

☺️
When humans have subjective personal experiences they have confidence in they'll stick by them generally. When Paul encountered christ on the road to damascus those with him did not see christ only witnessed the sound of a voice. It's easy to separate white stone's opinions from his experiences I can disagree with some of the former without being enraged by the latter as some have.

I can say as a great crowder that knows a half dozen annointed in my county the revilers here don't know Jehovah or anoint/ed/ing half as well as they assert. What are people's business discriminating against age when Paul indicated some of the chosen in the first century were even reformed Sodomites.
 
It’s never a waste of time to try and help someone when we see the need to help, no matter how bombastic it may be.
When I said they are wasting their time is by repeating the same ridicule or mockery lines.

Of course I saw genuine questions and I have appreciated it. But if the argument becomes the same and repeating line of thought, or ends with mockery, with no end in sight, then it is better to discuss or do other things. Hope you understand what I meant.
 
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Paul also said this in galatians 5 as (apparently the anointed back then was phrone to the same imperfections as we all are.. until we are healed from sin..) this scripture always came up in my head after having heated arguments 😉 i look forward to the day I will be able to master my temper perfectly 😆
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Paul also said this in galatians 5 as (apparently the anointed back then was phrone to the same imperfections as we all are.. until we are healed from sin..) this scripture always came up in my head after having heated arguments 😉 i look forward to the day I will be able to master my temper perfectly 😆View attachment 2092
Beautiful scripture @Arctic Cat . Thanks for the reminder
 
Completely absurd.
First family I was introduced to in the truth: Non stop spook stories. How they had a wicked aunt who sent a Christmas card and it would not burn no matter how they tried.... imagine a young heart's impression of these nutters! No wonder the endless mental health problems. A pioneer sister after being interrogated of her sexual encounter.....now is suffering Obsessive Compulsive hand washing! I could go on. .A terrible needless scrutiny into our personal feelings......Aaaagh! Hosea 4:8 'They feed on our sin' 'They are greedy for our error'!
 
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No, I totally agree with what you’re saying. The main part of those verses in 1Corinthians I was focusing on ( and in context of course) was that “those things would be done away with.”
I wouldn’t think that just any given person could just ‘claim’ to interpret dreams. If that were the case, anyone could make some claim about something but it may or not be true. Just like WT claims they are the FDS but how do we know? Well, most of us on this forum well know the truth about that.
I just can’t believe Jehovah would back someone just claiming to interpret dreams…and maybe because he calls himself White Stone? Why not give his real name like Daniel, Isaiah, and Jeremiah, among others?

That’s just my two cents I’m putting in…for what it’s worth.

☺️
I agree. I was pondering on the darkness that we walk in, last night. Don’t you think we are regressing in values in our lives; generally, I mean? Paul it was I think, that said we view through a glass darkly. The downward trend in all things of value, including life itself, appears so noticeable even in my life time and the understanding of things, that much harder to achieve. Now, we cannot even question even social issues without being hauled before a court of law. What we term as life now, may well differ infinitely with life in the new order In that we will wonder how we ever managed.
 
I think were going around at the start again. But yes, unless the dream has prophetic significance or at least, can have an external evidence, then you can’t prove it to others.

Can we just agree to disagree?

Nevertheless, thank you for being understanding.
No, not really. There is truth in agreeing to differ in understanding. It does not apply to falsity. That would be an abdication of standards. There must be truth in the matter of faith otherwise our understanding is wayward. If you are unable to prove your point, you are surely deceiving yourself. My questions are legitimate and not without substance in scripture (I hope), but your argument is based on assumptions that you assume upon yourself. It is not me who is starting to go around in circles. I have progressed my argument step by step, but you decline to answer - or cannot substantiate at the very least. If what you have to say is scriptural, then please quote it and show me where it is supported in the bible. I will read it, certainly.
 
First family I was introduced to in the truth: Non stop spook stories. How they had a wicked aunt who sent a Christmas card and it would not burn no matter how they tried.... imagine a young heart's impression of these nutters! No wonder the endless mental health problems. A pioneer sister after being interrogated of her sexual encounter.....now is suffering Obsessive Compulsive hand washing! I could go on. .A terrible needless scrutiny into our personal feelings......Aaaagh! Hosea 4:8 'They feed on our sin' 'They are greedy for our error'!
Mick, I think that describes what WT has done to us on this mental ‘merry go round’ we can’t seem to get off of.
I remember being told a similar story as you, when I was new in the truth…except it was told by a sister who said that Loretta Lynn (country singer ) had been dabbling
in spiritism, and they had one of her albums they tried to burn. They tried to do everything to burn it up and finally the album just exploded! 😳

One other crazy story we were told in more recent years, a sister was being questioned in a judicial meeting about her immoral conduct. She claimed to have multiple personalities and said that there were one or two of them who made her give in to her immoral conduct, making it hard for her to control. Well, as the brothers were trying to decide whether or not to DF her, they then decided to call the branch and were told that they were to DF all her personalities! 🤦‍♀️

I promise you ,I didn’t make this up!
 
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Exactly! Jehovah wants to catch us in not catch us out with unobtainable understanding.
I often have dreams that I can fly, not as a bird, but simply unaffected by gravity. Should I draw from that then, that I may be in for the spirit realm?! It is one of the dreams that I enjoy having - it’s like being on a hover board. Exhilarating!
 
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