If Jehovah has an org, why leave?

[Eventhorizon]

Another moral dilemma... but I also ponder upon the ethics of it all- With the knowledge of corruption and not being able to speak out about it due to heavy handed repercussions (in essence, one cannot disagree at all with the borg, or else!) By staying quiet and lag-a-loping along with all the diktats and convoluted lies/beliefs, is one not condoning these beliefs/actions? After all, those not for us are against us, and vice versa?

But point being, in 1 Kings 19 Elijah though he was the only one left that worshiped Jehovah. He was wrong, as Jehovah advised that there were still 7000 (verse 18) in Israel who had not bent a knee to Baal. Apparently these 7000 although still in the geographic land of Israel and were worshipers, they were not participating in a formal congregation activity worshiping together were they? (unless I am missing something, please correct me if I am)

 

[Medi-tator]

@Watchman came to my aid with an explanation a little farther up this thread. There was also a quick snippet by Bro. Losch several months back where he couched this sentiment in a sentence that made several of us uncomfortable. It was mentioned on the site, but I can't tell you exactly where on this site that thread was now.

As a refresher @Sundial, here is the link to the compilation of GB updates in 2021.

Losch's comments about unity begin at time marker 4:32 and go to the end of his part at time marker 9:25. This segment, along with much of the video, is not for the faint of heart . It can be a mood changer so please beware, be aware. The inference regarding the importance of "unity" is well documented in Losch's section of the video compilation.

Adding this info to what @Watchman pointed out regarding what the attorney said, one gets the sense that unity trumps truth. When you add the "new-light" doctrine to the mix, where every previous untruth magically becomes truth at the whim of a secretive group of 8 men (now 10), the idea that unity is more important than truth holds up to the light quite easily.

 

[Medi-tator]

By staying quiet and lag-a-loping along with all the diktats and convoluted lies/beliefs, is one not condoning these beliefs/actions?

Driven and I think so. We always advocate however that everyone follow the dictates of their own individual consciences and circumstances. God's will be done!

 

[SusanB]

Another moral dilemma... but I also ponder upon the ethics of it all- With the knowledge of corruption and not being able to speak out about it due to heavy handed repercussions (in essence, one cannot disagree at all with the borg, or else!) By staying quiet and lag-a-loping along with all the diktats and convoluted lies/beliefs, is one not condoning these beliefs/actions? After all, those not for us are against us, and vice versa?

But point being, in 1 Kings 19 Elijah though he was the only one left that worshiped Jehovah. He was wrong, as Jehovah advised that there were still 7000 (verse 18) in Israel who had not bent a knee to Baal. Apparently these 7000 although still in the geographic land of Israel and were worshipers, they were not participating in a formal congregation activity worshiping together were they? (unless I am missing something, please correct me if I am)

Exactly correct. Many times the prophets had to hide out in the wilderness or caves. Coming into Jerusalem was usually to pronounce judgment. At least that is how it seems to me.

 

[Medi-tator]

That’s very true @Sundial. I’ve never heard that either in all the years I’ve been associated with the organization. But then they have been saying a lot of things we’ve never before heard. 😮

I am going to add to this discussion @Ms_ladyblue by quoting from Ray Franz's Crisis Of Conscience, page 326. Bear with me please as this quote is kinda long.

While discussing issues of concern amongst the brotherhood and the inability for anyone to take up various matters of concern with anyone of any authority, Franz writes back in 2008,

"any open discussion of these difficulties was viewed as a great danger to the organization, as disloyal to its interests. Unity (actually uniformity) was apparently counted more important than truth. Questions about organizational teachings could be discussed within the inner circle of the Governing Body but nowhere else. No matter how heated the debate on an issue within that circle, the Body must present a face of unanimity toward all those on the outside, even though such "face" actually masked serious disagreement on the point in question."
(bolded type is mine)

He goes on to say:

"I found nothing in the Scriptures to justify this pretense, for those Scriptures commended themselves as truthful by their very frankness, openness and candor in acknowledging the differences existing among early Christians, including apostles and elders. More importantly I found nothing in Scripture to justify the restricting of discussion to such a secretive, closed society of men, whose two-thirds majority decisions must then be accepted by all Christians as "revealed truth". I did not believe that truth had anything to fear from open discussion, any reason to hide from careful scrutiny. Any teaching that had to be shielded from such investigation did not deserve to be upheld."

So, no, this is not an article taken from WT directly, but it serves as an indicator of prevailing thought within the leadership ranks that frankly has not changed over time.

Med

 

[goldie]

As a refresher @Sundial, here is the link to the compilation of GB updates in 2021.

Losch's comments about unity begin at time marker 4:32 and go to the end of his part at time marker 9:25. This segment, along with much of the video, is not for the faint of heart . It can be a mood changer so please beware, be aware. The inference regarding the importance of "unity" is well documented in Losch's section of the video compilation.

Adding this info to what @Watchman pointed out regarding what the attorney said, one gets the sense that unity trumps truth. When you add the "new-light" doctrine to the mix, where every previous untruth magically becomes truth at the whim of a secretive group of 8 men (now 10), the idea that unity is more important than truth holds up to the light quite easily.

Uuuugh I need some pepto bismol now! thanks mediator 😫

 

[Watchman]

Ironically, the thing the WT fears the most - disunity - is what will befall them. The sheep will be scattered and many will be stumbled.

 

[robins]

Remember too, that the fear of disunity became paramount because of the divisions emerging within the ranks from the vaccine mandates. One can only guess how many desperate letters were sent or how many Bethelites were affected or as the case may be, disaffected by their stubborn stand. Expect more in the near future 😒

this is what gets me... if "unity" is such a big deal, then why as an org does the GB take such un-unifying stands?! Wouldn't the more "unifying" approach regarding the vaccine be to be neutral about it and let each their own. it is internally contradictory to hold unity in such high regard then act in such divisive ways.

 

[robins]

I really can't imagine a loving God expecting his followers to sit through some of the total BS that the GB is pushing down the pike. From a cong level i think there can be good messages and great people, but i would never expect anyone to put up with the crap currently needed to wade through to stick around and keep their integrity. Everyone's tolerance is different, but that's my personality

 

[PJ54]

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

Uuuugh I need some pepto bismol now! thanks mediator 😫

Ugh! I’m right there with ya Goldie…although I might also need a glass of wine to help ease my nerves! Yes…thanks Meditator.
That was the same update #7 that Jehovah used to wake me and my husband up.

I always knew that those vaccines were dangerous and deadly. So, I stated to keep up with the VAERS report…. people that were being seriously affected by the vaccine were posting videos online starting around February 2021. I kept hoping and praying Jehovah would help those brothers to do their research and accurately report all the terrible things we were beginning to see take place.

But to no avail…and that was the update that convinced me and my husband that they were going along with this whole agenda.
It was especially traumatic for me to get my head wrapped around it all. The way the GB were reporting events, talks being given and especially those updates. This was no longer an organization that looked or sounded familiar to me…it was like I was listening to ”the voice of strangers.” And that’s exactly what they are….strangers….and they‘re just getting worse…like a cult!

 

[Paul resiliente]

@Watchman y otros han afirmado que Jehová tiene una organización y son los Testigos de Jehová. Esto se debe principalmente a que la doctrina ortodoxa de WT es bíblicamente sólida. Ahora, está el punto del 'esclavo malvado y el surgimiento de la apostasía' dentro de la organización de Jah ( como sucedió con los israelitas ) y 'Cristo juzgando a la organización' en algún momento que desencadenaría una confusión significativa dentro de la organización (ver [USUARIO = 2] Publicación de @Watchman[/USER] aquí). No obstante, siendo que Jah tiene una organización, la pregunta es, ¿por qué irse? Si deja la organización de Jah, ¿no está diciendo que no cree que esté dirigiendo a su gente a través de una organización? Estoy tratando de comprender el aspecto de que sí, él tiene una organización, con miembros imperfectos/falibles, pero aún está bajo la dirección de Jah y Jesús; en consecuencia, ¿no negaría dejar esta afirmación?

Ahora, entiendo y agradezco tener una plataforma que expone ciertas fechorías, críticas o inconsistencias, etc. (este foro); sin embargo, parecería que la confirmación de @Watchman de que los Testigos de Jehová están en la organización de Jah respaldaría por qué hay PIMO y PIMI y por qué es mejor quedarse y luego irse.:inseguro:

It is a threadbare subject where you need to be as objective as possible and as less sentimental as possible. I believe that the host of this forum, Mr. Robert King, has published VERY BALANCED material regarding this matter. It is clear that the Wachtower has been a fertile ground and chosen by Jehovah to unearth biblical truths that had been obscured, but like ancient Israel, it starts well and then corrupts, the biblical pattern indicates the same thing that happened before will happen now. Israel started out well, then becomes corrupt and is severely disciplined by Jehovah. Today we are in the intermediate phase, where the modern Israel or holy place is corrupted and the leaders, minimally, asleep to everything that happens in the world and complacent with the horrors that happen within the worldwide congregation. You have to be very patient to be inside, to be aware of these things and still stay. If you can do it my congratulations! In my case, my spirit or way of being does not allow it, it is impossible for me to remain silent even though I have tried to hide it, and that has earned me the contempt and prejudice of many modern Jews (Jehovah's Witnesses) although I am also one of them. as far as religious identification is concerned. That has motivated me to distance myself from them, but my thoughts are always with Jehovah and the development of events in the system. Basically, if he stays on the inside, he needs to be a good actor and hide everything he knows, and if he's on the outside, it takes genuine faith that works as an anchor to not stray. Don't forget, the devil will try to divert you. He conscientiously study the scriptures, pray, meditate a lot and do not silence the truth. The time will come when he will have to appear before the courts of the world and before the very modern Jews who will hand him over to them.

 

[kirmmy]

The existence of an organization does not guarantee order, nor is an organization a prerequisite for orderliness.

You must be familiar with where I work.

Is that a real quote from a GB member or WT article or an interpretation or personal conclusion? Don't recall those exact words ever being said from the "org".

It's in one of their Kingdom updates from 2021. I can't remember which one. I had to play the part 3 times for my Brother before he finally caught it. It was slipped in really sneaky like. It's not exactly like that though...

Found it:

https://www.jw.org/en/news/jw/region/global/2021-Governing-Body-Update-7/

Time: 11:33-45

"If we follow direction coming from Jehovah's channel we will be blessed and, more important, we'll remain united."

ETA: Meditator beat me to it but with the greatest hits mix-tape.

So unity may not be more important than truth...but, apparently it's more important than Jehovah's blessing. One could argue that that little tidbit is worse than saying "unity is more important than truth." Jehovah God is the benchmark of truth. But unity is more important than his blessing...according to the dictators of Sodom. Yeah...right...

BTW, I never counsel anyone to leave the org. I had an arg on the phone with a friend of mine (a company man) about the BS of 1914, etc and at the end of the convo I told him not to worry at this time as he was in God's organization...but keep his head on a swivel to what's going on around him regarding the GB.

I faded many years ago and won't go back in now. You'll find that there are many on this forum that are in a kind of "twilight zone" regarding the org. We're in a very unique time and things are moving very fast. Jehovah may be pulling some of us out to help those that are in now when that org gets fragged by Jah himself.

Besides, we're all enjoying the full measure of freedom that Christ promised, on this forum. And RK and various members keep us well fed spiritually.

John 8:32
Gal 5:1

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

You must be familiar with where I work.

Lol 😂 so I’ve been told. 😆

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

So unity may not be more important than truth...but, apparently it's more important than Jehovah's blessing. One could argue that that little tidbit is worse than saying "unity is more important than truth." Jehovah God is the benchmark of truth. But unity is more important than his blessing...according to the dictators of Sodom. Yeah...right...

That’s right kirmmy!!! I remember now…they said unity was more important than Jehovah’s blessing! Thanks for that reminder.
I guess we get so many odd statements that we’ve never heard before from the GB we can’t remember which way is up with them! 😖 🤪

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

Besides, we're all enjoying the full measure of freedom that Christ promised, on this forum. And RK and various members keep us well fed spiritually.

John 8:32
Gal 5:1

John 8:32
“You’ll know the truth, and the truth will set you free!’’

Gal. 5:1
”Understand that the Anointed One set us free so we can truly be free!Therefore, we should be standing up straight, and not allowing ourselves to be put under the yoke of slavery [to the Jewish Law] again!”

 

[IraJ]

I'm sorry but what does MOL stand for?

I am still picking up on all of their acronyms..its not easy 🤦‍♀️ 😊

 

[Citrine]

As a refresher @Sundial, here is the link to the compilation of GB updates in 2021.

Losch's comments about unity begin at time marker 4:32 and go to the end of his part at time marker 9:25. This segment, along with much of the video, is not for the faint of heart . It can be a mood changer so please beware, be aware. The inference regarding the importance of "unity" is well documented in Losch's section of the video compilation.

Adding this info to what @Watchman pointed out regarding what the attorney said, one gets the sense that unity trumps truth. When you add the "new-light" doctrine to the mix, where every previous untruth magically becomes truth at the whim of a secretive group of 8 men (now 10), the idea that unity is more important than truth holds up to the light quite easily.

The whole unity push really creeped us out. You can be completely united for a terrible purpose. Hitler’s army was very united.

 

[Ms_ladyblue]

I am still picking up on all of their acronyms..its not easy 🤦‍♀️ 😊

Man of lawlessness.
The more you read here you’ll become more familiar with those acronyms. But to also help you with this here’s the thread you can go to….

Just type Abbreviations in the search box and look for the thread title “Abbreviations.”​

 

[Ellehcar]

Ugh! I’m right there with ya Goldie…although I might also need a glass of wine to help ease my nerves! Yes…thanks Meditator.
That was the same update #7 that Jehovah used to wake me and my husband up.

I always knew that those vaccines were dangerous and deadly. So, I stated to keep up with the VAERS report…. people that were being seriously affected by the vaccine were posting videos online starting around February 2021. I kept hoping and praying Jehovah would help those brothers to do their research and accurately report all the terrible things we were beginning to see take place.

But to no avail…and that was the update that convinced me and my husband that they were going along with this whole agenda.
It was especially traumatic for me to get my head wrapped around it all. The way the GB were reporting events, talks being given and especially those updates. This was no longer an organization that looked or sounded familiar to me…it was like I was listening to ”the voice of strangers.” And that’s exactly what they are….strangers….and they‘re just getting worse…like a cult!

This sounds very much like my waking up experience due to the vax push!