Is the GB endorsing the vaccine a sin against God's Spirit?

MuleJule

Well-known member
If Satan (resister) the Devil (slanderer) can "transform" himself into an angel of light, that would mean that his root character is strictly darkness. He gets off on and is effectively addicted to the shock and horror of terrible things. Playing nice for several thousand years just to try to influence these little carbon units running around on earth would have likely been very boring to him. Plus his ability to seduce other perfect angels to follow him would necessitate some fairly serious deviations from their normal existence. Chaos is cool, war is wonderful, suffering is supreme and confusion is killer. That is Satan the Devil, a very "diabolical" character LOL.
Thank you Medi-tator, you always have words of wisdom. That does make sense, and he probably never intended on actually "making a better world" than Jehovah, he just wanted to rebel and stir things up, create a little excitement. Who knows how his mind works, I certainly can't fathom it.
 

evw

Well-known member
Nomex, what you're saying makes sense. Why would Jehovah step in to help out Satan's mess? That would defeat the purpose of the experiment. I get that.

But thinking about this also this raises another question for me... (and maybe my thinking is bonkers because of all the spiritual changes I've been undergoing this past year.)

I was meditating on "Satan's challenge" and I was thinking how Satan is no doubt highly intelligent, beyond our limited comprehension. If he really thought he could rule humans and the earth better than Jehovah, and he was given the opportunity and thousands of years to demonstrate that, why would he choose to create untold chaos, war, suffering and confusion?

Sure he's evil and selfish and people imitate their leader etc etc, but honestly, he COULD have been much more effective by teaching humans beneficial things, how to work together, build communities, heal, care for the land. He was there for creation of many things, he had intimate knowledge of how things work. He could have convinced many humans and angels that he had some really good ideas. Why would he choose to screw everything up into an irrepairable mess? I honestly want to know. What kind of game plan is that?
I'm just so 'mixed up' after 35+ years in the GB truth and now adjusting to the real truth. But from what I understand, Satan is not concerned with the people, whether they are right or not and whether he can do better than Jehovah, but merely to destroy Jesus and the anointed out of sheer jealousy. I also wonder if I understand correctly now.
 

MuleJule

Well-known member
I'm just so 'mixed up' after 35+ years in the GB truth and now adjusting to the real truth. But from what I understand, Satan is not concerned with the people, whether they are right or not and whether he can do better than Jehovah, but merely to destroy Jesus and the anointed out of sheer jealousy. I also wonder if I understand correctly now.
I feel the same way evw, like I'm relearning and questioning everything, even foundational beliefs. I've been in the "truth" that long too, and I've always had unanswered questions that I stowed away, but now I have even more questions. It seems all I do is study and research, trying to prove to myself what is actually the truth. At times it seems unattainable. There are too many layers of lies. Too many liars. But I appreciate coming here and feeling pretty safe to discuss such things.

You're certainly right about Satan's intent and his jealousy. I think we only know a small fraction of the entire story.
 

The God Pill

Well-known member
It's simple the issue of universal sovereignty is a denominational paradigm if we look at things objectively without the assumption as a filter 1. All creatures exist for the son Jehovah doesn't have to justify himself to his son's puppies 2. Satan did not become "the god of this system of things" until some point in the stream of time between the language confusion and the first century when the princes subordinated themselves to him then it's clear that his operations have not been an attempt to prove humans can rule themselves or something. Remember the prophecy in genesis 3 undoubtedly he took note of that besides coveting worship his primary preoccupation is averting or delaying his execution.
 

Medi-tator

Well-known member
I feel the same way evw, like I'm relearning and questioning everything, even foundational beliefs. I've been in the "truth" that long too, and I've always had unanswered questions that I stowed away, but now I have even more questions. It seems all I do is study and research, trying to prove to myself what is actually the truth. At times it seems unattainable. There are too many layers of lies. Too many liars. But I appreciate coming here and feeling pretty safe to discuss such things.

You're certainly right about Satan's intent and his jealousy. I think we only know a small fraction of the entire story.
Jesus said that he had to hold back from telling his buddies any more than he did, otherwise their minds would have been totally blown. We today are not entirely far off from the same mental/spiritual capacity of Jesus' early disciples, so you are so completely correct that we still only know a fraction of the story. The thousand years will reveal some amazing things, especially things about our spiritual growth. We are doing things and reacting to things by nature now that appear as being normal that we will have to unlearn and replace during the kingdom rule (unless of course we are anointed which I am not). Staying true to Jesus words about keep knocking, seeking, asking etc is going to be key for us for many many years now and to come. That, along with a ton of prayer and requests for more faith! Amazing!!
 

LifeLearning

Well-known member
If Satan (resister) the Devil (slanderer) can "transform" himself into an angel of light, that would mean that his root character is strictly darkness. He gets off on and is effectively addicted to the shock and horror of terrible things. Playing nice for several thousand years just to try to influence these little carbon units running around on earth would have likely been very boring to him. Plus his ability to seduce other perfect angels to follow him would necessitate some fairly serious deviations from their normal existence. Chaos is cool, war is wonderful, suffering is supreme and confusion is killer. That is Satan the Devil, a very "diabolical" character LOL. Your question is smart and logically founded, but Satan may be smart but not THAT smart. 🤣 Donald Trump used to say on The Apprentice about some boneheaded thing one of his guests would do, "not so smart!" Where it comes to Satan, I agree with Trump.
Also, like drug addiction the more evil he does the more he wants and needs to do to satisfy the desire he revels in. It's like the constant need for more and heavier drugs until an overdose ends it.
 

Nomex

Well-known member
If he really thought he could rule humans and the earth better than Jehovah, and he was given the opportunity and thousands of years to demonstrate that, why would he choose to create untold chaos, war, suffering and confusion?

Sure he's evil and selfish and people imitate their leader etc etc, but honestly, he COULD have been much more effective by teaching humans beneficial things, how to work together, build communities, heal, care for the land.
There are a couple things to unpack here, keeping in mind that there is much we don't understand. However, I think one of the ways WT has really let us all down is their very elementary understanding of the bible, never really eating solid food.

First of all, I don't think this was ever about "ruling better than Jehovah" but rather appealing to the selfishness of imperfect humans and being able to control them. Sal Alinsky who wrote "Rules for Radicals" and is a democrat favorite, and some would argue the Democrat "bible" he advocating blaming others for what you do, and dedicated his book to "Lucifer", Hillary Clinton loves him BTW. I think what's going on here is those types of people judge the world based on their own thinking and have no ability to think the way other people think. Satan thinks he's right, that God should not "tell people what to do", and his way of ruler-ship his been to more or less stand aside and let man run amuck. After The Great Tribulation after being responsible for the "problem, which causes the reaction, he's going to come in with the solution", which will be the 8th King. His last ditch effort to get all of mankind to follow him. And this last King Revelation says "will perform great signs even making fire come down out of heaven. It misleads those who dwell on the earth , because of the signs it was permitted to perform." It compels people to worship it, it will be like nothing man has ever seen before, except for perhaps what he was doing prior to the flood. They say of the 8th King/Wild beast, "Who is like the wild beast, and who can do battle with it?" It will be a counterfeit of God's Kingdom.


Keep in mind too, as I mentioned about the flood, Satan already tried this prematurely, before the flood and then again with the Tower of Babel. Both times he was creating a world government the second time Jehovah confused the lanuages and forced mankind into tribes and forced them to populate every corner of the earth, so it has taken thousands of years for the world to advance for enough for Satan to try his "one world Government" again.
 

MuleJule

Well-known member
after being responsible for the "problem, which causes the reaction, he's going to come in with the solution", which will be the 8th King. His last ditch effort to get all of mankind to follow him. And this last King Revelation says "will perform great signs even making fire come down out of heaven. It misleads those who dwell on the earth , because of the signs it was permitted to perform." It compels people to worship it, it will be like nothing man has ever seen before, except for perhaps what he was doing prior to the flood.
Yes, that makes a lot of sense. He will step in with the brilliant solution to the problem he created. People will be so ready for his miraculous kingdom.

Edit to add: that scripture in revelation with the great signs - fire out of heaven etc, reminds me of the conspiracy about the fake alien invasion that some claim will be staged in fulfillment of that prophecy. The ancient ones coming back to rescue humanity, or something to that effect. It’s interesting to consider.
 
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SusanB

Well-known member
Nomex, what you're saying makes sense. Why would Jehovah step in to help out Satan's mess? That would defeat the purpose of the experiment. I get that.

But thinking about this also this raises another question for me... (and maybe my thinking is bonkers because of all the spiritual changes I've been undergoing this past year.)

I was meditating on "Satan's challenge" and I was thinking how Satan is no doubt highly intelligent, beyond our limited comprehension. If he really thought he could rule humans and the earth better than Jehovah, and he was given the opportunity and thousands of years to demonstrate that, why would he choose to create untold chaos, war, suffering and confusion?

Sure he's evil and selfish and people imitate their leader etc etc, but honestly, he COULD have been much more effective by teaching humans beneficial things, how to work together, build communities, heal, care for the land. He was there for creation of many things, he had intimate knowledge of how things work. He could have convinced many humans and angels that he had some really good ideas. Why would he choose to screw everything up into an irrepairable mess? I honestly want to know. What kind of game plan is that?
Hi MuleJule, Your question makes me think of dissecting what actually happened in the Garden of Eden. Ezekiel 28:13-17 can be applied to the corruption of Satan. Before he opposed Jehovah he was described as the “model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty”. He was even described as faultless until unrighteousness was found in him. Verse 17 reveals how he became corrupted. He began to think too much of himself and became haughty or arrogant, conceited. One of the cross-references to verse 17 is Isaiah 14:14, where the King of Babylon is inspired by Satan to be so ambitious as to not only have full domination over the earth but to also want to be in a god-like position. So that is Satan’s attitude. He saw Adam and Eve’s relationship with Jehovah and how they worshipped Jehovah and he not only wanted that worship for himself but he felt entitled to it because he was beautiful and wise.

Satan coveted Jehovah’s godship. He knew he couldn’t take over Jehovah’s godship but this type of coveting often turns into envy. Envy is a bit worse than jealousy. Aristotle defined envy as pain at the sight of another’s good fortune, stirred by “those who have what we ought to have”. When someone wicked wants something that they cannot attain, they often don’t want to see anyone else have it. Like a spouse whose mate decides to divorce them and so they kill the mate that wants to leave. Why? Because if they can’t have that one they don’t want anyone else to have them. I think it is like that with Satan. He knows he can’t win but he wants to ruin as much as possible to try to hurt and damage Jehovah. Rule or ruin, right?

Another example of this type of attitude is found at 1 King’s 3:16-28 where the prostitutes were roommates and they both gave birth to sons. During the night, one woman accidentally killed her newborn by laying on him. Then the woman who had accidentally killed her son stole her roommate’s child and claimed it was actually her son. The dispute went before Solomon to judge. Solomon ordered the child be cut in two and half given to each one. The real mother was motivated by unselfish love for her child and didn’t want the child killed even if it meant giving the child to woman making the false claim. But the woman who was not the real mother was willing to let the child be killed and she explained why in verse 26 where she says: “He will be neither mine nor yours! Let them cut him in two!” Solomon could tell the true motive of each woman. One was motivated by unselfish love and the other was motivated by envy.

I think this is actually a good lesson to meditate on because it shows how important it is to be discerning to Satan or anyone’s motive. What is the end result they are trying to achieve? I don’t think Satan has any false hope of actually becoming a permanent ruler of anyone but I think that he thinks that if he can tear down Jehovah or slander/tarnish his name and/or godship then he somehow revels in that. And, if he can get Jehovah’s beloved creation, human beings, to turn against or rebel against Jehovah then he feels a thrill with that. His motive is completely wicked and so that is why he will never do anything for the benefit of humans. He has no desire for anything good. Just a bad motive.
 

evw

Well-known member
It's simple the issue of universal sovereignty is a denominational paradigm if we look at things objectively without the assumption as a filter 1. All creatures exist for the son Jehovah doesn't have to justify himself to his son's puppies 2. Satan did not become "the god of this system of things" until some point in the stream of time between the language confusion and the first century when the princes subordinated themselves to him then it's clear that his operations have not been an attempt to prove humans can rule themselves or something. Remember the prophecy in genesis 3 undoubtedly he took note of that besides coveting worship his primary preoccupation is averting or delaying his execution.
So 'we' are just his 'toy' on which he indulges his satanic lusts, until such time when his destruction is inevitable?
 

evw

Well-known member
Hi MuleJule, Your question makes me think of dissecting what actually happened in the Garden of Eden. Ezekiel 28:13-17 can be applied to the corruption of Satan. Before he opposed Jehovah he was described as the “model of perfection, full of wisdom and perfect in beauty”. He was even described as faultless until unrighteousness was found in him. Verse 17 reveals how he became corrupted. He began to think too much of himself and became haughty or arrogant, conceited. One of the cross-references to verse 17 is Isaiah 14:14, where the King of Babylon is inspired by Satan to be so ambitious as to not only have full domination over the earth but to also want to be in a god-like position. So that is Satan’s attitude. He saw Adam and Eve’s relationship with Jehovah and how they worshipped Jehovah and he not only wanted that worship for himself but he felt entitled to it because he was beautiful and wise.

Satan coveted Jehovah’s godship. He knew he couldn’t take over Jehovah’s godship but this type of coveting often turns into envy. Envy is a bit worse than jealousy. Aristotle defined envy as pain at the sight of another’s good fortune, stirred by “those who have what we ought to have”. When someone wicked wants something that they cannot attain, they often don’t want to see anyone else have it. Like a spouse whose mate decides to divorce them and so they kill the mate that wants to leave. Why? Because if they can’t have that one they don’t want anyone else to have them. I think it is like that with Satan. He knows he can’t win but he wants to ruin as much as possible to try to hurt and damage Jehovah. Rule or ruin, right?

Another example of this type of attitude is found at 1 King’s 3:16-28 where the prostitutes were roommates and they both gave birth to sons. During the night, one woman accidentally killed her newborn by laying on him. Then the woman who had accidentally killed her son stole her roommate’s child and claimed it was actually her son. The dispute went before Solomon to judge. Solomon ordered the child be cut in two and half given to each one. The real mother was motivated by unselfish love for her child and didn’t want the child killed even if it meant giving the child to woman making the false claim. But the woman who was not the real mother was willing to let the child be killed and she explained why in verse 26 where she says: “He will be neither mine nor yours! Let them cut him in two!” Solomon could tell the true motive of each woman. One was motivated by unselfish love and the other was motivated by envy.

I think this is actually a good lesson to meditate on because it shows how important it is to be discerning to Satan or anyone’s motive. What is the end result they are trying to achieve? I don’t think Satan has any false hope of actually becoming a permanent ruler of anyone but I think that he thinks that if he can tear down Jehovah or slander/tarnish his name and/or godship then he somehow revels in that. And, if he can get Jehovah’s beloved creation, human beings, to turn against or rebel against Jehovah then he feels a thrill with that. His motive is completely wicked and so that is why he will never do anything for the benefit of humans. He has no desire for anything good. Just a bad motive.
Thank you so much!!! Here I can relate to. And can see his means to achieve his ultimate goal before getting destroyed
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
And, I just heard in a video somewhere that the mRNA is not natural. It’s like GMO food. It is a synthetic, a Frankenstein type creation that is very different from human mRNa. The person in the video asked the question that if it changes your DNA, are you still a human. I am concerned by that.
It is synthetic and these were their own words. Anyone who argues against that, was not paying attention to the people who made and promoted these injections. The whole basis for the company Moderna is a synthetic alteration of our genes. Again, their words not mine.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
Nomex, what you're saying makes sense. Why would Jehovah step in to help out Satan's mess? That would defeat the purpose of the experiment. I get that.

But thinking about this also this raises another question for me... (and maybe my thinking is bonkers because of all the spiritual changes I've been undergoing this past year.)

I was meditating on "Satan's challenge" and I was thinking how Satan is no doubt highly intelligent, beyond our limited comprehension. If he really thought he could rule humans and the earth better than Jehovah, and he was given the opportunity and thousands of years to demonstrate that, why would he choose to create untold chaos, war, suffering and confusion?

Sure he's evil and selfish and people imitate their leader etc etc, but honestly, he COULD have been much more effective by teaching humans beneficial things, how to work together, build communities, heal, care for the land. He was there for creation of many things, he had intimate knowledge of how things work. He could have convinced many humans and angels that he had some really good ideas. Why would he choose to screw everything up into an irrepairable mess? I honestly want to know. What kind of game plan is that?
Think of Satan as a high functioning psychopath. His only concern is himself. He also gets off on the suffering and sin of the people of the earth. Nothing he does can ever be characterized as even close to good. He just doesn't care and loves to destroy and cause pain and distress. Everything out of his mouth is a lie as Jesus said: John 8:44
 

Citrine

Well-known member
I feel the same way evw, like I'm relearning and questioning everything, even foundational beliefs. I've been in the "truth" that long too, and I've always had unanswered questions that I stowed away, but now I have even more questions. It seems all I do is study and research, trying to prove to myself what is actually the truth. At times it seems unattainable. There are too many layers of lies. Too many liars. But I appreciate coming here and feeling pretty safe to discuss such things.

You're certainly right about Satan's intent and his jealousy. I think we only know a small fraction of the entire story.
We’re right there with you! What do we “know and believe“ anymore? Recently watched a video where it was proposed that the whole WT society is just a giant hedge fund business run basically by George Soros. I don’t know if that’s been touched on here before. At first we wanted to say no way - that’s ridiculous but then you start connecting the dots. We watched in Warwick in disbelief as truckloads of new Mercedes’ sprinter vans were delivered weekly to shuttle us workers, rows and rows of brand new Ford F-250 diesel trucks for every 25 year old “overseer” to drive around the project, pallets and pallets of new DeWalt tools delivered weekly, it goes on and on. All brand new - no expense spared. We were there when the infamous Lett “we’re out of money” broadcast came out and we watched it sitting on our floor next to his room - the irony. We couldn’t make it make sense so as usual we just stuffed it and went back to work. Now I can’t help but think my whole life was spent supporting a giant scam. The GB are just actors for a globalist agenda. That makes sense why the .org homepage reads like CNN - also owned by Soros. Two different wings of the same bird. 😡
 

MuleJule

Well-known member
I think this is actually a good lesson to meditate on because it shows how important it is to be discerning to Satan or anyone’s motive. What is the end result they are trying to achieve?
I really appreciate your response here Driven, very good points. I was also thinking of the description of satan in Ezekiel when I was meditating on his position and attitude. He no doubt thinks very highly of himself and his envy of Jehovah and Jesus has surely escalated over the ages.

But also, since he is so clever and deceitful and we only have a fraction of the actual truth, maybe he has manipulated our complete perception of everything. Maybe nothing is as it seems. That’s where my digging is leading me lately. Forgive me all of you if this seems heretical, I truly want to believe the “word of God” in its entirety, but how do we know it isn’t half truths, compiled to blind and mislead us down to this day. Who decided what was to be included in the inspired canon? Weren’t they apostates from true Christianity?

Why would Jehovah preserve such a confusing mess of books and say live by these words or face destruction... when billions of people all interpret the words differently based on their unique circumstances and upbringing?

Like I said in a previous post, I am starting over. I am scraping away everything WT and GB taught me and researching with unbiased eyes, and it doesn’t add up.

@Jess once said to me that this is her time in the wilderness, like Jesus time w Jehovah when knowledge of his prehuman existence was revealed to him. No doubt it took that long, even for a perfect man to process that kind of revelation. I am here alone, asking Jehovah to help me figure out who he is and what he wants.
 

MuleJule

Well-known member
Now I can’t help but think my whole life was spent supporting a giant scam. The GB are just actors for a globalist agenda.
Yes. Yes. Yes. It has taken me almost a year to get to this point, but I am totally with you on all this. I do think they are part of this agenda, leading their unsuspecting sheep to slaughter. It makes me ill to even watch them or hear what they are peddling at meetings. And everyone is humbly following along, parroting every word, bowing to the “faithful slave” and all their wonderous works.
I am having trouble believing the organization was EVER guided by Jehovah.
 

Yupyup_yup

Well-known member
Now I can’t help but think my whole life was spent supporting a giant scam

Forgive me all of you if this seems heretical, I truly want to believe the “word of God” in its entirety


My only comfort is knowing that everything I did was because I love God, I did nothing for men

I thought I was doing the right thing

I pray that, that means something to God
despite my ignorance and any lies I have been taught.

My faith tells me that it does and thats why I woke-up

Everything around me may fail or be false, but I know my love for my Heavenly Father is REAL

My prayers and hope are real

This knowledge helps me everyday
 

MuleJule

Well-known member
My only comfort is knowing that everything I did was because I love God, I did nothing for men

I thought I was doing the right thing

I pray that, that means something to God
despite my ignorance and any lies I have been taught.

My faith tells me that it does and thats why I woke-up

Everything around me may fail or be false, but I know my love for my Heavenly Father is REAL

My prayers and hope are real

This knowledge helps me everyday
Amen to that. Our father knows and appreciates our sincerity and surely does not expect us to have it all figured out. That’s why all of us are here, love of truth and our creator. I’m so grateful to know you all are yearning and searching for truth. I have faith that when the time is right Jehovah will reveal what we need to know.
 

kirmmy

Well-known member
Now I can’t help but think my whole life was spent supporting a giant scam.
Great comment Citrine. Regarding the above; have you ever given money to a homeless person? If so, have you ever found out, after the fact, that he spent the money on drugs or booze? Or that he was actually living like a king and used begging to make a great living for himself?

An example:

Another

Even so, that doesn't invalidate your kind, selfless act. God knows your heart. He knows you gave money to a con artist, even if you missed it, but he sees it as an act/demonstration of goodness and love on your part. He'll take care of the con artists soon enough.
 
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