Open Question From A Reader: When do the 42 Months Begin and End?

[SusanB]

If the coming of Christ is not visible to everybody, as a literal reading of Scripture would suggest, then everybody is dependent on the 'say so' of those who claim to have seen Him return; so how would you know, after some global, cataclysmic event whether you are now in Jehovah's new system, and had better follow orders, or whether it is a deception, and you are still in Satan's imitation 'new world' and need to resist to the death?

A recent WT mag touches on this; you can read it on the thread

My Study​

page 4, post #64,

*** w22 February pp. 6-7 Do You Trust in Jehovah’s Way of Doing Things? ***

paragraph 18, when read in context illustrates my point, if you get it.

I hope I get your point. Paragraph 18 talks about the provision of Manna and if we complain about Jehovah’s provisions it will be like the Israelites who complained about the Manna but the article is really linking trusting in Jehovah with trusting in the GB instructions that may seem strange, illogical or impractical. I appreciated when JoeMcTeeg posted that the GB first started communicating that thought around 2013. I couldn’t remember the exact year myself but that was something that stuck in my brain as well as the question of how could I know that instruction is from Jehovah or really just trickery. Because certainly there will be developments that may be different than our understanding of the interpretation of prophecies or something not even specifically stated in the bible and yet may be manifested, such as the vaccine. Well at the beginning of the time when the GB was first suggesting this new “doctrine” (strange, illogical and impractical) I just thought that Jehovah will make it known if it is from him or not from him. We first consult the scriptures but we should also look into the secular facts and those things should be reconciled.

So, again using the vaccine as an example, when it first came out I did not run out and get vaccinated because of what the facts are. It is experimental. That just isn’t open to any real dispute. So, I decided to wait until they have completed trials of it, which isn’t until 2023, but in the meantime before I knew more facts about the dangers and issues, I thought that if my work required it then I would just get the vaccine. However, I continued to research the vaccine and found out that it damages and desaturates the blood. So, based on scripture, I understand that blood and life is sacred to Jehovah and we should treat those things as sacred. So, then is when I decided that no, I would not get the vaccine because I now know that it damages the blood, damages the immune system (which is a god-given miracle of it’s own), risks death and disability and is a pretty clear defilement of the flesh. So, the GB cannot change my mind on that because of the scriptures along with the medical facts. Something that the friends, the ones who are following the GB, just don’t want to hear or address. They have the applicable scriptures on ignore and their entire reasoning is that the GB has done so much and has clearly been used by Jehovah, which I agree, but now the GB cannot go astray (their false reasoning.)

So, I have to think again with regarding to being tricked by whether or not the new government is from the Kingdom or from the Beast, that I have full confidence that Jehovah will provide the evidence. I just have to be willing to accept it even if it does not match my preconceived ideas. But it must match what the scriptures say and I should be able to reason logically on it. So, I continue to be interested in hearing new voices as long as they are bible based and some secular voices too in that they are truthful. But everything must now be put to the test because I feel incredibly betrayed by the GB and set-up by them with regard to the new “illogical doctrine.”

Anyway, I apologize if I ask too many questions, but I think something is at times lost in translation when I am reading some of your posts. It’s probably just a frame of reference issue and you are obviously more knowledgeable about the scriptures than I am and I don’t have anything coming close to instant recall, so I get confused. But I have ordered some information board equipment so that I can draw a timeline and try to put scriptures on it as I am convinced that they fit. That way I can put the puzzle pieces together as much as possible and with Jehovah’s help.

 

[Posstot]

I hope I get your point. Paragraph 18 talks about the provision of Manna and if we complain about Jehovah’s provisions it will be like the Israelites who complained about the Manna but the article is really linking trusting in Jehovah with trusting in the GB instructions that may seem strange, illogical or impractical. I appreciated when JoeMcTeeg posted that the GB first started communicating that thought around 2013. I couldn’t remember the exact year myself but that was something that stuck in my brain as well as the question of how could I know that instruction is from Jehovah or really just trickery. Because certainly there will be developments that may be different than our understanding of the interpretation of prophecies or something not even specifically stated in the bible and yet may be manifested, such as the vaccine. Well at the beginning of the time when the GB was first suggesting this new “doctrine” (strange, illogical and impractical) I just thought that Jehovah will make it known if it is from him or not from him. We first consult the scriptures but we should also look into the secular facts and those things should be reconciled.

So, again using the vaccine as an example, when it first came out I did not run out and get vaccinated because of what the facts are. It is experimental. That just isn’t open to any real dispute. So, I decided to wait until they have completed trials of it, which isn’t until 2023, but in the meantime before I knew more facts about the dangers and issues, I thought that if my work required it then I would just get the vaccine. However, I continued to research the vaccine and found out that it damages and desaturates the blood. So, based on scripture, I understand that blood and life is sacred to Jehovah and we should treat those things as sacred. So, then is when I decided that no, I would not get the vaccine because I now know that it damages the blood, damages the immune system (which is a god-given miracle of it’s own), risks death and disability and is a pretty clear defilement of the flesh. So, the GB cannot change my mind on that because of the scriptures along with the medical facts. Something that the friends, the ones who are following the GB, just don’t want to hear or address. They have the applicable scriptures on ignore and their entire reasoning is that the GB has done so much and has clearly been used by Jehovah, which I agree, but now the GB cannot go astray (their false reasoning.)

So, I have to think again with regarding to being tricked by whether or not the new government is from the Kingdom or from the Beast, that I have full confidence that Jehovah will provide the evidence. I just have to be willing to accept it even if it does not match my preconceived ideas. But it must match what the scriptures say and I should be able to reason logically on it. So, I continue to be interested in hearing new voices as long as they are bible based and some secular voices too in that they are truthful. But everything must now be put to the test because I feel incredibly betrayed by the GB and set-up by them with regard to the new “illogical doctrine.”

Anyway, I apologize if I ask too many questions, but I think something is at times lost in translation when I am reading some of your posts. It’s probably just a frame of reference issue and you are obviously more knowledgeable about the scriptures than I am and I don’t have anything coming close to instant recall, so I get confused. But I have ordered some information board equipment so that I can draw a timeline and try to put scriptures on it as I am convinced that they fit. That way I can put the puzzle pieces together as much as possible and with Jehovah’s help.

Yes, I think you understand my point; Jehovah told us to test the inspired expressions to see if they are from Him; but why would He tell us to do something that He has left us incapable of doing, because that is basically what the WT is telling us, namely, that we could not get saved without their life giving instructions and explanations of all things spiritual, thereby usurping the role of Jesus and the Holy Spirit which He sent us.

We no longer live in Mosaic times, where as yet there was no Spirit, and even Jesus' words in Mat 23:3, about 'observing and doing according to what the Pharisees say,' applied only before His death and resurrection in the pre-Christian era, and would not be applicable to us today, as can be seen by Jesus commending the rank and file brothers in Ephesus for not putting up with their congregation leadership, whom they found to be liars, because they knew that they cannot worship the God of truth in 'spirit and truth' while subjecting themselves to a leadership of liars who claimed to be His representatives; hence, should we not follow their courageous example today? Jno 7:39; Re 2:2

 

[SusanB]

Wow! I comple

Yes, I think you understand my point; Jehovah told us to test the inspired expressions to see if they are from Him; but why would He tell us to do something that He has left us incapable of doing, because that is basically what the WT is telling us, namely, that we could not get saved without their life giving instructions and explanations of all things spiritual, thereby usurping the role of Jesus and the Holy Spirit which He sent us.

We no longer live in Mosaic times, where as yet there was no Spirit, and even Jesus' words in Mat 23:3, about 'observing and doing according to what the Pharisees say,' applied only before His death and resurrection in the pre-Christian era, and would not be applicable to us today, as can be seen by Jesus commending the rank and file brothers in Ephesus for not putting up with their congregation leadership, whom they found to be liars, because they knew that they cannot worship the God of truth in 'spirit and truth' while subjecting themselves to a leadership of liars who claimed to be His representatives; hence, should we not follow their courageous example today? Jno 7:39; Re 2:2

I completely understand and agree and love how you worded this post. Thank you. Sorry I’m in my car and not able to type well

 

[Robert194972]

In trying to figure out what the great tribulation actually is, we need to think about what it means to be so 'great' as not to have occurred before, nor to ever occur again.

We are already given a hint, in that it is to be on 'Jerusalem,' meaning, 'a holy place,' which, in turn, is interpreted for us as 'this people' upon whom 'justice is to be meted out' according to 'all the things written' in prophetic Scripture. Lu 21:20-24

This means that it is the greatest tribulation or persecution of God's people ever, in both past and future, not the greatest calamity to occur to mankind at large.

How does the flood of Noah compare to the great tribulation?
How does the flood compare to the sword stroke?
Did a great crowd that no one was able to number survive Noah's flood?
Is the sword stroke on the beast so great that afterward there is no "all the earth" left to 'follow it with admiration? Re 13:3

Hence, both the great tribulation and the sword stroke - although they are two different events - are nothing compared to the calamity for mankind that was the flood of Noah, which wiped out almost all mankind, which can only mean that the great tribulation will be the greatest persecution of God's people - loosely defined - to ever have happened, dwarfing the 70 AD sacking of Jerusalem.

It is the Great tribulation because it bigger than any before it ( Whatever they are? ) and it will never happen ever again and it will be an existential threat to the whole human race. When they start throwing nukes around it is hard to imagine they will stop. In the heat of the moment I wonder who will be first to call for a cease fire? The reason why it will be cut short is on account of the chosen ones. Because if is not cut short those nukes along with the subsequent fall out; Earth will be toast. Which is what Satan would want? He is probably resigned to the fact that he will be toast. Surely?

 

[Medi-tator]

Wow! I comple

I completely understand and agree and love how you worded this post. Thank you. Sorry I’m in my car and not able to type well

I agree completely with Posstot as well. Xlnt points!!

 

[Posstot]

It is the Great tribulation because it bigger than any before it ( Whatever they are? ) and it will never happen ever again and it will be an existential threat to the whole human race. When they start throwing nukes around it is hard to imagine they will stop. In the heat of the moment I wonder who will be first to call for a cease fire? The reason why it will be cut short is on account of the chosen ones. Because if is not cut short those nukes along with the subsequent fall out; Earth will be toast. Which is what Satan would want? He is probably resigned to the fact that he will be toast. Surely?

David1982 has a good take on this issue, have a read of it, if you haven't already:

Understanding the rise of the eighth king

Reading posts about the NWO/eighth king here and on other forums, it seems to me that many are missing the giant plot twist that its rise to power will imply. It's a very convoluted topic but I wanted to explain shortly how I understand it. The globalist apparatus in power today is not Satan's...

e-jehovahs-witnesses.com

 

[OnlyJah]

We are already in the 42 months, actually, roughly month 21 to be as close to exact as I can be. I find it funny how everyone gives their opinion on what scripture says, but not what scripture actually says. Reminds me of another scripture:

You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but the signs of the times you cannot interpret. - Mt 16:3

The beginning of the 42 months was to be preceded by an event that was revealed to John in Revelation 12. In the first verses we see a woman in labor to give birth. This woman represents God's organization who is looking to give birth to Jesus and send him back to his Father. (Re 12:5) This action also fulfills John 16:7-15 BTW. When Jesus is "birthed" back to heaven all the information is revealed in the scriptures to pinpoint a rough time based on seeing what the world looks like. Jehovah gives us all the information we need to decipher the exact timeframe as to when all of this was to start. Back in Revelation 12:13-14 we read:

“Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is to be fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.”

These 3 ½ times also equals the 1,260 days mentioned earlier in the chapter in verse 6:

“And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days.”

So here we establish that the 1,260 days (or 3½ years) starts when the Devil is cast to the earth and the woman flees to the wilderness, but what other things are said to happen around this number of 1,260 days? This number, or variants equaling it, is mentioned 7 times in the bible:

1) Daniel 7:25 - "He will speak words against the Most High, and he will continually harass the holy ones of the Supreme One. He will intend to change times and law, and they will be given into his hand for a time, times, and half a time."

2) Daniel 12:6b-7 - “How long will it be to the end of these marvelous things?” Then I heard the man clothed in linen, who was up above the waters of the stream, as he raised his right hand and his left hand to the heavens and swore by the One who is alive forever: “It will be for an appointed time, appointed times, and half a time.”

3,4) Revelation 11:2-3 - “But as for the courtyard that is outside the temple sanctuary, leave it out and do not measure it, because it has been given to the nations, and they will trample the holy city underfoot for 42 months^. I will cause my two witnesses to prophesy for 1,260 days dressed in sackcloth.”

^ This also equals 3½ years or 1,260 days.

5) Revelation 12:6 - (mentioned earlier) - “And the woman fled into the wilderness, where she has a place prepared by God and where they would feed her for 1,260 days.”

6) Revelation 12:13-14 - “Now when the dragon saw that it had been hurled down to the earth, it persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male child. But the two wings of the great eagle were given to the woman, so that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is to be fed for a time and times and half a time away from the face of the serpent.”

7) Revelation 13:5 - "It was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for 42 months."

And now we have a basis for the 1,260 days spanning scripture, but wait there’s more, because in Daniel we also have three other numbers.

Daniel 8:13-14 - “And I heard a holy one speaking, and another holy one said to the one speaking: “How long will the vision of the constant feature and of the transgression causing desolation continue, to make both the holy place and the army things to trample on?” So he said to me: “Until 2,300 evenings and mornings; and the holy place will certainly be restored to its right condition.”

Daniel 12:11-12 - “And from the time that the constant feature has been removed and the disgusting thing that causes desolation has been put in place, there will be 1,290 days. “Happy is the one who keeps in expectation and who arrives at the 1,335 days!”

Now we have to bring in the last reference. Remember earlier when we said that Jesus was going away to the Father and would have “nothing for himself”. Why do we bring that into play with this prophecy? Let us read about it:

Daniel 9:24-27 - “There are 70 weeks that have been determined for your people and your holy city, in order to terminate the transgression, to finish off sin, to make atonement for error, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the Holy of Holies. You should know and understand that from the issuing of the word to restore and to rebuild Jerusalem until Messiah the Leader, there will be 7 weeks, also 62 weeks. She will be restored and rebuilt, with a public square and moat, but in times of distress. “And after the 62 weeks, Messiah will be cut off, with nothing for himself. “And the people of a leader who is coming will destroy the city and the holy place. And its end will be by the flood. And until the end there will be war; what is decided upon is desolations. “And he will keep the covenant in force for the many for one week; and at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease. “And on the wing of disgusting things there will be the one causing desolation; and until an extermination, what was decided on will be poured out also on the one lying desolate.”

As understood, the first 69 weeks (“weeks of years”) were fulfilled when Jesus arrived after Jerusalem was rebuilt, about 483 years later, but what about the 70th week? At a quick glance one could conclude that that had already been taken care of because obviously it was said that Jesus would “keep the covenant in force for one week” but that “at the half of the week, he will cause sacrifice and gift offering to cease” and some think this to mean that he died roughly 3½ years into his ministry after being anointed by Holy Spirit.

I dont necessarily agree but love the scriptural workouts such entries provide. The freedom we have here on this site is so very welcome after the arbitrary removal of freewill we have been subjected to. This has given me much food for thought and a searching of the scriptures will ensue. Thanks

 

[a watcher]

We are already in the 42 months, actually, roughly month 21 to be as close to exact as I can be....

I wish you were right, but I doubt that you are. Time will tell. In the meanwhile, this spiritual lockdown is distancing me from the earthly org and I'm not happy about it.

 

[Ach Tung]

I wish you were right, but I doubt that you are. Time will tell.

No, not in the 42-months now...but getting close to what will lead to the death-stroke which will lead to the 8th king and the 42-months...

U.S. Orders 3,000 Troops to Bolster European Allies in Russia-Ukraine Crisis

American soldiers will head to Poland, Germany and Romania in the first major movement of U.S. forces in the standoff.

www.wsj.com

These 3,000 are in addition to 8,500 on standby and other countries are sending troops as well according to the live press conference going on now from the pentagon.

 

[LuisMerino9412]

Does 42 month period, or 3.5 years, (time, times and half a time) spoken of in Daniel and Revelation begin after the Great Tribulation ends, and does it end at the time that the holy ones are killed, or at or just prior to Armegeddon? Jesus preached for 3.5 years, so is the 42 months, the 3.5 years, the period when the anointed give the final witness of God's Kingdom and the judgment message to the world?

Or does the 42 month period start when the Great Tribulation begins and then ends, when?

Related Question: We know that Jehovah will cut short the days of the Great Tribulation on account of the chosen ones, or else no flesh would be saved. Do we know how long the Great Tribulation will last?

Open to any and all comments, answers on this topic.

According to what I have learnt here... We do not know how much time will the tribulation last. The great tribulation will be result of the war, famine, pestilence and all the other disasters that will come when this world is shaken. 2 billion souls will die bc of this. Then, it will be cut short, the chosen ones will be sealed and 42 months will pass. After that, I would say that the tribulation will start again, but this time will the 7 bowls of wrath... Leading to the destruction of Babylon the Great and Armageddon, once the sealed ones are killed by the beast.

 

[LuisMerino9412]

Maybe all those events will last 7 years or less... Including all the periods mentioned in the Bible: the 42 months, 1260 days, 1290 and 1335 days. Just like Noah waited 7 days for the Deluge to come and people were still alive, but doomed, the final part of the days could last the same. So, maybe Jesus will be crowned at the beginning of the 7 years and at the end of them, the Millennium will begin. Although that may not be a possibility bc the world may not resist 3 years of war, famine and pestilence, these events must last at least a lil while taking into account that 2 billion people will die as a result of them and there will be a period when governments will ceast to exist to come back to life miraculously. All that will take some time...

 

[Robert194972]

According to what I have learnt here... We do not know how much time will the tribulation last. The great tribulation will be result of the war, famine, pestilence and all the other disasters that will come when this world is shaken. 2 billion souls will die bc of this. Then, it will be cut short, the chosen ones will be sealed and 42 months will pass. After that, I would say that the tribulation will start again, but this time will the 7 bowls of wrath... Leading to the destruction of Babylon the Great and Armageddon, once the sealed ones are killed by the beast.

Interesting thought. The GT starts then is cut short and then starts again. Interesting indeed.

 

[LuisMerino9412]

Remember that the angels hold back the winds of destruction when the tribulation is cut short. So, this could mean that the tribulation is cut short, but will "return" when the chosen ones are killed. Just like 3 years and a half passed between the first attack of Jerusalem in the first century and its complete destruction, 3 and half years (when the 2 witnesses preach) could pass between the cut short of the tribulation and the start of the pouring of the seven bowls. The 30 days after the 1260 days (1290 days) and the 45 days after that (1335) could be the remaining days of this world when the 7 bowls of wrath are poured and Babylon the Great's destruction and Armageddon occur. By the end of the 1335 days, the Millennium will begin. That's maybe why Daniel says that happy is the one who is alive after that period.

 

[LuisMerino9412]

Well, interesting view, but I don't believe that is what Robert King teaches. I'm not sure if others on this forum teach or believe that. There are numerous opinions.

That's what Robert has said, except for that the tribulation will start again. But he says that the tribulation will be before the chosen ones are sealed and it will be cut short to accomplish that. And that's what the Bible actually shows in Revelation 6 and 7.

 

[LuisMerino9412]

It is surely no coincidence that Jesus' earthly ministry was basically 42 months. John the Baptist began his ministry in the spring of 29 CE and he baptized Jesus later that year, probably late October of 29 CE. Jesus expired on the Passover, 33 CE, which that year was early April. Jesus' ministry continued in a new form after his resurrection when over the course of 40 days he appeared to his disciples in various guises and then was taken up. In Revelation, the 42 months begin after the beast recovers from the mortal wound and goes off to make war against the holy ones. During that 1,260 interval, the two witnesses will torment the world by announcing that they have seen Christ.

Interestingly, the 12th chapter of Daniel attaches two additional time periods to the 1,260 days (42 months). There is a 1,290 period and a 1,335 day period. Perhaps the end of the 1,290 period will mark the end of the first resurrection, all 144,000 joined with Christ in heaven and an additional 45 days after the marriage of the Lamb until the world is destroyed and Satan and the demons are locked away. That would begin the 1,000-year reign of the Kingdom.

Very interesting. Thank you, Robert.

 

[Ach Tung]

According to what I have learnt here... We do not know how much time will the tribulation last. The great tribulation will be result of the war, famine, pestilence and all the other disasters that will come when this world is shaken.

See here:

https://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/index.php?threads/duration-of-the-great-tribulation.304/post-9212

___________________________



7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,+ and there will be food shortages+ and earthquakes in one place after another.+ 8All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.

9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation+ and will kill you,+ and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.+ 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many;+ 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured* to the end will be saved.+

 

[LuisMerino9412]

See here:

https://e-jehovahs-witnesses.com/index.php?threads/duration-of-the-great-tribulation.304/post-9212

___________________________



7 “For nation will rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom,+ and there will be food shortages+ and earthquakes in one place after another.+ 8All these things are a beginning of pangs of distress.

9 “Then people will hand you over to tribulation+ and will kill you,+ and you will be hated by all the nations on account of my name.+ 10 Then, too, many will be stumbled and will betray one another and will hate one another. 11 Many false prophets will arise and mislead many;+ 12 and because of the increasing of lawlessness, the love of the greater number will grow cold. 13 But the one who has endured* to the end will be saved.+

Well kind of yeah. But not exactly. It will be more than that.

 

[Paz]

I find the moderator reasoning seems reasonable it’s certainly just ahead of us, by talking about it on posts like this helps clarify our focus as Bible students. It’s important to try to be spiritually awake, Jesus words do indicate that it will come as a ‘thief in the night’ even for faithful ones.