Seven Jehovah's Witnesses killed in Kingdom Hall shooting in Hamburg, Germany.

SusanB

Well-known member
I have never sent a message that was received well, and I have sent hundreds of thousands over the last 20-some years.
Sometimes we only recognize well-intentioned discipline after we suffer the consequences of our error. Jehovah tries to help us understand the need to self reflect and to listen to his word.

Hebrews 12:11: “True, no discipline seems for the present to be joyous, but it is painful; yet afterward, it yields the peaceable fruit of righteousness to those who have been trained by it.”

Revelation 3:19: “All those for whom I have affection, I reprove and discipline. So be zealous and repent.”

Hebrews 12:7-8: “You need to endure as part of your discipline. God is treating you as sons. For what son is not disciplined by his father? But if you have not all shared in receiving this discipline, you are really illegitimate children, and not sons.”
 

DR74minus

Well-known member
I have never sent a message that was received well, not one, at least that has communicated with me, and I have sent hundreds of thousands over the last 20-some years.

I know you sent your book and letters, and I've thought they're not going to take notice of me. Thats not reason enough for me to stop with my small effort but.
 

Cristo

Well-known member
I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it.
Its not possible for any JW to refute because it is impossible to know. It is also impossible for you to claim it as fact. You provided an answer, not necessarily the correct, or right answer, just a possible one. The fact is you don't KNOW why it happened, and to say it's because the Kingdom Halls were sold, and Jehovah was not happy therefore allowed these people to get shot is going beyond your 'calling'. YOU DON"T KNOW why he shot those people, nor the circumstances prior to the events that made him feel like this was his only choice. How self righteous of you to assume that he is demon possessed. Can you read hearts now? Did Jehovah speak to you already, and tell you why this happened? If so, then I humbly apologize and ask for forgiveness, but if you can't and he didn't, then perhaps you should not use these deaths as a foundation upon which to place your soapbox, and recognize that its a sign of the times that we live in. There is a time and a place to point out the WT's failings, but to do it right now upon the death of our brothers and sisters is poor taste indeed.

(2Ti 3:1) “. . .But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here.”
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Its not possible for any JW to refute because it is impossible to know. It is also impossible for you to claim it as fact. You provided an answer, not necessarily the correct, or right answer, just a possible one. The fact is you don't KNOW why it happened, and to say it's because the Kingdom Halls were sold, and Jehovah was not happy therefore allowed these people to get shot is going beyond your 'calling'. YOU DON"T KNOW why he shot those people, nor the circumstances prior to the events that made him feel like this was his only choice. How self righteous of you to assume that he is demon possessed. Can you read hearts now? Did Jehovah speak to you already, and tell you why this happened? If so, then I humbly apologize and ask for forgiveness, but if you can't and he didn't, then perhaps you should not use these deaths as a foundation upon which to place your soapbox, and recognize that its a sign of the times that we live in. There is a time and a place to point out the WT's failings, but to do it right now upon the death of our brothers and sisters is poor taste indeed.

(2Ti 3:1) “. . .But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here.”
Not true. It is possible to know. The GB, or more correctly their board of director handlers, sold what had been previously dedicated to Jehovah. Jehovah is not some chump idol god like jesus on a cross. He is a real God. His word lays out the consequences for all such sins. This is not coming out of the wild blue yonder. The Watchtower has thousands of people who have contributed valuable insight into the Bible. And they do not know the judgments of Jehovah? Shame on you for your covering over their sin.
 
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DR74minus

Well-known member
Its not possible for any JW to refute because it is impossible to know. It is also impossible for you to claim it as fact. You provided an answer, not necessarily the correct, or right answer, just a possible one. The fact is you don't KNOW why it happened, and to say it's because the Kingdom Halls were sold, and Jehovah was not happy therefore allowed these people to get shot is going beyond your 'calling'. YOU DON"T KNOW why he shot those people, nor the circumstances prior to the events that made him feel like this was his only choice. How self righteous of you to assume that he is demon possessed. Can you read hearts now? Did Jehovah speak to you already, and tell you why this happened? If so, then I humbly apologize and ask for forgiveness, but if you can't and he didn't, then perhaps you should not use these deaths as a foundation upon which to place your soapbox, and recognize that its a sign of the times that we live in. There is a time and a place to point out the WT's failings, but to do it right now upon the death of our brothers and sisters is poor taste indeed.

(2Ti 3:1) “. . .But know this, that in the last days critical times hard to deal with will be here.”

While our host cannot see the future or read hearts. He still has a reasonable case albeit his own views.
However he does have a solid base for his argument. We'll see if our brother is right or wrong? "soapbox"? You're a bit of a drama queen. Want to be noticed do ya?
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
While our host cannot see the future or read hearts. He still has a reasonable case albeit his own views.
However he does have a solid base for his argument. We'll see if our brother is right or wrong? "soapbox"? You're a bit of a drama queen. Want to be noticed do ya?
Not true. I can see the future. You can too if you are willing to peer into the ancient pages of the future. It's not that hard.
 

Cristo

Well-known member
Not true. It is possible to know. The GB, or more correctly their board of director handlers, sold what had been previously dedicated to Jehovah. Jehovah is not some chump idol God like jesus on a cross. He is a real God. His word lays out the consequences for all such sins. This is not coming out of the wild blue yonder. The Watchtower has thousands of people who have contributed valuable insight into the Bible. And they do not know the judgments of Jehovah? Shame on you for your covering over their sin.

Really? Thats what I'm doing? ugh!

I'm sorry Robert, but it is not possible to know why the shooter did what he did. He's dead, and his reasons went with him. We all know what happened with the sale of the properties. And I think it was awful for them to do that, but can you tell me if Jehovahs spirit left the organization before the sale of the properties, or after? Or rather, was the sale of the properties due to the fact that Jehovahs spirit had already left the organization? Or did his spirit leave because of the sale or properties, and other abuses and lies going back decades? You are basing your argument on something that you cannot ascertain.

How am I covering over their sin? By not jumping to conclusions that are unprovable like you are doing regarding the shooter? I just think some tact regarding this would be more beneficial than your speculative rant on why it happened.
 

Watchman

Moderator
Staff member
Really? Thats what I'm doing? ugh!

I'm sorry Robert, but it is not possible to know why the shooter did what he did. He's dead, and his reasons went with him. We all know what happened with the sale of the properties. And I think it was awful for them to do that, but can you tell me if Jehovahs spirit left the organization before the sale of the properties, or after? Or rather, was the sale of the properties due to the fact that Jehovahs spirit had already left the organization? Or did his spirit leave because of the sale or properties, and other abuses and lies going back decades? You are basing your argument on something that you cannot ascertain.

How am I covering over their sin? By not jumping to conclusions that are unprovable like you are doing regarding the shooter? I just think some tact regarding this would be more beneficial than your speculative rant on why it happened.
The issue is not why the "shooter did what he did." The motive is irrelevant. The question that Jehovah's Witnesses will be living with is why did Jehovah allow some deranged lunatic to blast his way into a Kingdom Hall during a meeting overseen by Jesus and murder 6 servants of Jehovah and an unborn child? I provided the answer. And you cannot refute it.
 

SusanB

Well-known member
I do understand why Robert King is sending the Bulletin to Elders, CO’s and generally those in responsible positions. They are responsible for the damage to the flock because they should be protecting the flock but they are actually enforcers for the GB. In fact they have been complicit in murder and it is ongoing since the vaccine is still being promoted even though the evidence is abundantly clear. They have been complicit in covering over the lies of the GB and the child abuse. And, they have been complicit in stealing from Jehovah. We can excuse human imperfection and overlook many sins as insignificant but what happens in the theocratic arrangement should be based on the bible and unfortunately sometimes it is not. But I understand any hesitancy. I myself am in discussion with my husband regarding the timing and the issue of forgiveness and mercy. Clear answers require time to meditate and consider all viewpoints. For myself I can only take action when I am 100% sure it honors Jehovah in the way he chooses. In the end, the goal is to encourage hope and strong faith in Jehovah and in his Son. And repentance is necessary too. Repentance requires admitting the sin so that you can turn away from it. I think a lot of the brothers and sisters are unaware regarding the selling off of Kingdom Halls and the dangers of the vaccine. Why are they unaware? Because they are blindly following the GB. I won’t criticize Robert King for sending the Bulletin and it is between him and Jehovah. The only question is perhaps the timing and it could be the wrong timing and it also could be exactly what is needed. We shall see.
 

BagdadBill

Well-known member
My ex-wife finally called me. Apparently this is disturbing the people. I asked her what might be happening if Jehovah's people are murdering each other. She knows and sees. My father in law was a smart and intuned man. He was my go to person within the congregation. Even we are bleeding and now it shows. God has said that we would feel the pain from this world and so it starts.
 
J

Jehovahsloyalchild

Guest
It's not about me. They don't listen to me because they don't want to listen to Jehovah.
No they certainly don't listen. I received blowback from a couple people and crickets from many more. I am a apostate I am sure in their eyes...and guess what...I DONT CARE ONE BIT...I don't live to please them, I don't serve man their government of members who rob them blind, lie to them, gaslight them, abuse them, who profane Jehovahs Holy name, steal from Jehovah, prophecy lies, cover up child abuse, have secret partnerships, slave for money, worship demons. They are blind due to their complacency, their lack of Faith, their servitude to man not Jehovah. I warn them just as I know in my heart Jehovah wants me to Do. They are in for so much more suffering and unless they return to Jehovah put faith and trust in Him they are going to be faced with calamity beyond their imagination without Jehovahs Holy Spirit giving them strength to endure. Just as in the days of Noah the son of man will be and they will not take note until the trampling really begins. This was nothing in comparison to what the King of the North is going to bring about to Jehovahs temple and His people. Jehovah is angry oh so very angry and He has many many reasons to be.
 

Shekinah

Well-known member
It is all about having faith in Jehovah, as Jesus had. Although I had mostly positive experiences while I was associated with JWs it was not until I had a "calling" that everything went sideways, then downhill. Except, now I accept that I have another assignment since my faith is still intact by God's power. By the insight given to me, as I take no credit for figuring anything out on my own, it is possible to go forward in the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses by looking beyond the Watchtower and its many stumbling blocks to the prophecies, which speak to all the matters that are most relevant. That's what Kingdom Bulletin #24 is about. Many don't realize it yet but the mass murder of Jehovah's Witnesses in their Kingdom Hall is a huge stumbling block. Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it.
It is all about having faith in Jehovah, as Jesus had. Although I had mostly positive experiences while I was associated with JWs it was not until I had a "calling" that everything went sideways, then downhill. Except, now I accept that I have another assignment since my faith is still intact by God's power. By the insight given to me, as I take no credit for figuring anything out on my own, it is possible to go forward in the faith of Jehovah's Witnesses by looking beyond the Watchtower and its many stumbling blocks to the prophecies, which speak to all the matters that are most relevant. That's what Kingdom Bulletin #24 is about. Many don't realize it yet but the mass murder of Jehovah's Witnesses in their Kingdom Hall is a huge stumbling block. Do you think attendees at the next meeting and every meeting thereafter will not have in the back of their minds what happened in Hamburg? The question is going to linger for a long time: Why did Jehovah let it happen? I provided an answer from the Scriptures and it is not possible for any JW to refute it.
I guess it's easier when you have had positive experiences, they handled the abuse of my daughter appallingly, I was disassociated when not even baptised for being given a blood transfusion when unconscious, it's like I'm despised and I can feel it, in turn it makes it hard to answer up, which I must do before I get baptised, suffering from post traumatic stress only adds to the pain. It's like someone returning to the scene of the crime. But I will continue on. I remember Robert many years ago when I was ill and in your group, you lived in the UK at that time. You offered for you and your wife to come and look after me, I was blown away by your kindness but could not accept knowing how busy you were. But I have never forgotten that and thank you for the wonderful encouragement that you provide for so many..Agape 🙏🏼
 

Cristo

Well-known member
The issue is not why the "shooter did what he did." The motive is irrelevant. The question that Jehovah's Witnesses will be living with is why did Jehovah allow some deranged lunatic to blast his way into a Kingdom Hall during a meeting overseen by Jesus and murder 6 servants of Jehovah and an unborn child? I provided the answer. And you cannot refute it.
I realize after having some time to sort this out in my head that I was arguing about something other than what you were presenting in your letter to the elders. I do apologize for pushing so strongly at you in my words. I think it was when I read that you said the shooter was demon possessed, that triggered me, and my mind went from how awful this is, to how dare you, and the rest is in the posts I wrote. The point is you may be right about that fact as well, however I do hope not.

The reason it was so triggering to me I suppose has to do with the gang stalking that I have encountered for the past 20 years or so, including inside the organization from elders, and members. The society has most certainly been infiltrated by evil men and women who are intent on destroying the WT from within. The man of lawlessness has his minions within the rank and file, the superfine apostles, and boy are they sneaky. Anyways, the level of evil, when it is directed at a person by these people can be extremely difficult to endure. For those who don't have the ability to cope, and most certainly if Jehovahs spirit is not helping them, then it is just a matter of time before they crumble and either commit suicide, or act out in ways, one of which as this shooter did.

Do I know if he was a victim of gang stalking, no, but if he was, then this was a psyop intended to produce certain results. In order to bring about those results, this man must have gone through severe mental trauma induced by several different campaigns to wear him down. It is interesting that this happened in Germany, for that country marks the birthplace of Zersetzung (German for “decomposition”), which was a part of life with the citizens within East Germany by the Stasi in the 70's and 80's. These same tactics are now being used worldwide against people for various reasons, one of them, no doubt to bring about a false narrative on certain organizations. Jehovahs Witnesses are most certainly on the list, if not close to the top.

It is no secret that mankind will soon come against Gods people, and in order for this to occur, they must see us as an existential threat. What better way than to make it seem as though we are all delusional people with mental health disorders, ready to go shoot people. Whether the shooter had been subtly molded to become the shooter that he was by these evil people cannot be known, the fact is he snapped, and whether it was because Satan had entered his heart or not, it is an awful tragedy.

sorry again for allowing my emotions to take control of my words in such a way.
 
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The God Pill

Well-known member
I realize after having some time to sort this out in my head that I was arguing about something other than what you were presenting in your letter to the elders. I do apologize for pushing so strongly at you in my words. I think it was when I read that you said the shooter was demon possessed, that triggered me, and my mind went from how awful this is, to how dare you, and the rest is in the posts I wrote. The point is you may be right about that fact as well, however I do hope not.

The reason it was so triggering to me I suppose has to do with the gang stalking that I have encountered for the past 20 years or so, including inside the organization from elders, and members. The society has most certainly been infiltrated by evil men and women who are intent on destroying the WT from within. The man of lawlessness has his minions within the rank and file, the superfine apostles, and boy are they sneaky. Anyways, the level of evil, when it is directed at a person by these people can be extremely difficult to endure. For those who don't have the ability to cope, and most certainly if Jehovahs spirit is not helping them, then it is just a matter of time before they crumble and either commit suicide, or act out in ways, one of which as this shooter did.

Do I know if he was a victim of gang stalking, no, but if he was, then this was a psyop intended to produce certain results. In order to bring about those results, this man must have gone through severe mental trauma induced by several different campaigns to wear him down. It is interesting that this happened in Germany, for that country marks the birthplace of Zersetzung (German for “decomposition”), which was a part of life with the citizens within East Germany by the Stasi in the 70's and 80's. These same tactics are now being used worldwide against people for various reasons, one of them, no doubt to bring about a false narrative on certain organizations. Jehovahs Witnesses are most certainly on the list, if not close to the top.

It is no secret that mankind will soon come against Gods people, and in order for this to occur, they must see us as an existential threat. What better way than to make it seem as though we are all delusional people with mental health disorders, ready to go shoot people. Whether the shooter had been subtly molded to become the shooter that he was by these evil people cannot be known, the fact is he snapped, and whether it was because Satan had entered his heart or not, it is an awful tragedy.

sorry again for allowing my emotions to take control of my words in such a way.
You very well could be right but possessed and manipulated by globalist forces whether they be feds, secret societies or infiltrators are not mutually exclusive factors/causes only more angles of being steered
 
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